TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[NJS]

has anyone heard back from SPB AC regarding providing more information of the 3 tasks?

I dont think they actually give anything, I just got an email with 'extra info' but it was just to book a mock interview with AS, but all the dates before my AC was filled

 

[Andrei Radu]

Burges Salmon pfo post-AC, but the email says I have been put on the reserve list for the vacation scheme. Are my chances near zero or is there still hope?

It's difficult to say how high your chances are but I would say they are not as low to be near zero. The significant majority of the rejected candidates are not placed on the reserve list, but from what I know generally there are more people on the reserve list who end up not being invited to the VS than ones that are. Whether you actually end up being invited will depend on (i) how high on the reserve list you have been placed; and (ii) how many people end up not attending the VS anymore. It is difficult to say anything with more certainty about the first factor, although you could perhaps try to make a guess based on any feedback you have received. For the second factor, I can tell you that for my summer vacation schemes around 15%-25% of the people who initially accepted the offer ended up not coming.

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

question for assessment centres- I know in a case study you are meant to use SWOT, but when would you use PESTOL?

Hiya @Kakaboo

Just wanted to add to what's already been said, particularly to what @Jessica Booker and @broalabear have mentioned.

I don't think there’s a hard and fast rule, but in my experience, SWOT analysis tends to work best in well-defined scenarios (e.g. in case studies where you’re advising a hypothetical client on the risks and benefits of an investment, merger, or acquisition). It’s particularly useful when there’s a clear decision to be made, as strengths and weaknesses are easier to identify in those contexts. I tend to think of SWOT analysis as a kind of quasi cost-benefit analysis; the sort of analysis which is particularly useful when you're presented with a well-defined scenario in which a decision must be made.

On the other hand, PESTLE analysis is particularly helpful when analysing external factors influencing a business, but where there's no clear decision that you're being asked to make. For example, at my Freshfields and Akin ACs, we were given news stories about the rise of online retail clothing stores and changes to tax policy respectively. These case studies didn't present a specific decision in relation to which I was expected to advise a client, but rather they were case studies about broader industry trends or regulatory changes. These naturally lent themselves to PESTLE, as it helped structure our thinking around political, economic, social, and technological influences, rather than just internal strengths and weaknesses.

That said, you might sometimes be asked to consider the strengths and weaknesses of a scenario in an article-based case study. If, for instance, the case study asks what the impact of X or Y happening would be. But in general, if you’re dealing with an article that discusses wider market trends or external pressures, PESTLE is likely the more useful framework.

If you’re preparing for an AC, it might help to practise recognising when each framework would be most effective based on the type of material you’re given. Hope that helps!

 

[broalabear]

Anybody heard back from Winston and Strawn yet?

 

[Laur2cj]

I dont think they actually give anything, I just got an email with 'extra info' but it was just to book a mock interview with AS, but all the dates before my AC was filled

ah fair enough, I tried to do the same but no slots

 

[g.cl.2020344]

any1 done the SPB AC and can offer any advice, v. nervous as I've never done an in person AC before only online

 

[Andrei Radu]

any advice on what to think about when putting down seat preferences for a vac scheme

I would focus on the following three criteria when making my decision:

1. What practice areas am I most interested in: this is firstly relevant because you want to have a good vacation scheme experience, and if you are working on and learning about that which interests you, it substantially increases the chances of that happening. This translates to your conversion chances in that (i) if you are more interested in something it is likely you will be concentrated more on it and thus produce better work; (ii) the firm is looking to ascertain a real 'fit' (since they will want to keep you after qualification to get a real return on their investment), so if it observes you are genuinely enjoying your time there this will clearly be a factor in favour of making you an offer; and (iii) if you have any final interviews/partner chats, it will be a lot easier to link your VS experience with your initial 'why the firm' reasons.
2. What practice areas do I have the best understanding of: hopefully this area will have a lot of overlap with the former, but it is relevant to consider on its own since for many firms one of the key assessment criteria is the quality of your work. Evidently, the more you understand the basic tasks you could be asked to do, the better will you be able to perform. As such, I would advise you to have a quick look over the Practical Law Introductory Guides for the practices you are interested in and consider how easily you are understanding the materials.
3. Which practice areas are most central to the firm's core business and/or offer most qualification seats: from the point of the view of the firm (as once again, this is a two way view analysis of 'fit'), an ideal candidate is one that is clearly interested in its biggest practices. For instance, if you were going at Kirkland or Weil, you should clearly be choosing a PE seat. This is because firms will be looking to retain trainees, and may only be able to allow a very small number to qualify in its smaller practices. Since it will be expecting to make most offers to people wanting to qualify in a few big teams, that is where (all other things being equal) you should try to showcase an interest.

 

[Jessica Booker]

any advice on what to think about when putting down seat preferences for a vac scheme

Consider this as a good "try before you buy" type opportunity. It is a good opportunity to explore a practice area to work out whether you may (or may not) want to do a seat in that area as a trainee.

If you do enjoy it, having experience in that area could then help with future trainee seat allocations, especially if it is with the same firm and if you made a favourable impression with the team. If you end up not enjoying it, you know you may not want to put it down as a future seat choice.

I don't think it needs to be any more complicated than that. A lot of people try to really "gamify" their choices for vacation scheme seats, but I don't think this really works like people think it might.

Just go with what you think you might enjoy/find interesting but something you may want to test out. I generally recommend not replicating departments/practice areas you already have significant experience in already as this will help you when it comes to future seat choices anyway.

 

[ChloeC]

hi hi has anyone heard from Forsters yet. I've been so nervous all day and I genuinely cant get my mind off it

 

[Olivialee15]

Anyone heard from Goodwin post zoom interview?

 

[PFOenthusiast]

It's difficult to say how high your chances are but I would say they are not as low to be near zero. The significant majority of the rejected candidates are not placed on the reserve list, but from what I know generally there are more people on the reserve list who end up not being invited to the VS than ones that are. Whether you actually end up being invited will depend on (i) how high on the reserve list you have been placed; and (ii) how many people end up not attending the VS anymore. It is difficult to say anything with more certainty about the first factor, although you could perhaps try to make a guess based on any feedback you have received. For the second factor, I can tell you that for my summer vacation schemes around 15%-25% of the people who initially accepted the offer ended up not coming.

Thank you very much - I haven't been given any feedback yet unfortunately, but hopefully they will offer some insights soon. I guess I won't get my hopes up, but I won't give up all hope either for the time being!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Burges Salmon pfo post-AC, but the email says I have been put on the reserve list for the vacation scheme. Are my chances near zero or is there still hope?

Even if it is a case that you do not get to attend the vacation scheme, speak to the firm about the possibility of converting to a direct TC process instead. This can be done closer to the time that you know the scheme is happening.

 

[sibs23]

hi hi has anyone heard from Forsters yet. I've been so nervous all day and I genuinely cant get my mind off it

Hey, I don’t think so. I could be remembering wrong but pretty sure they said they would make decisions this week and come back to us either late this week or next week? I can relate though. Also feeling nervous and unable to focus at the moment

 

[Amma Usman]

Hi, does anyone have any advice for how to stand out in a cover letter (this is for a DTC app)? I've never had to do one for a law firm before. They've given a few pointers i.e. why this firm/office/why a career in law, but I'm struggling with sounding quite generic (I feel!)

Hey there,

I totally get this feeling. There are so many things one could possibly include in a cover letter given the flexibility of it. It’s far from application questions where you are directed towards a certain type of focus point, and expected to stay within that.

There are three key things worth mentioning;

• Why commercial law.
• Why the firm.
• Why you.

The three, “why’s”, essentially.

Why CL - there are so many professions out there, especially in the corporate world, and your ability to succinctly deal with the first why, helps show your reader you have thought this path through. Now, it’s not enough to just state your experiences, you need to precisely show what you did during that period. Further, you will still need to take it to the next level by showcasing why and how that links to commercial law (or an aspect of it, like a practice area), to create a good answer. At this point, you do not need to worry about whether the experiences you choose, or the practice areas you talk about, are a core area of the firm you are applying to. Just showing your journey and how you discovered this path is enough. Law firms want to see your story. How you genuinely communciate this passion is by showing them this. You could say something like you tried X didn’t like it because of Y and Z. You then maybe tried B and picked out that you liked O and G, which commercial law offers, and decided that this was a great path to go down for I and J reasons. Apologies for bombarding you with alphabets, but essentially this is the structure you should aim for (or some variation of it).

Why the firm - as above, seeing as there are so many firms out there, even this is a rather challenging question to answer. Many firms work on similar types of work, similar kinds of deals, have similar core practices, and so on. If the firm operates within a niche area, typically not done by other firms that are reasonably considered its competitors, this could be a distinguishing factor which could draw you more to the firm you are applying to. Focusing clearly on these niche aspects (though I appreciate this may not always be the case/ easy to find), will help your answer appear less generic, and showcase yourself as a candidate that actually knows what they want, AND has done research into knowing where they can get that.

Why you - this is perhaps the easiest and hardest question of all. It’s easy because you know yourself and experiences well, so this should not be hard to communicate. It’s hard because I see a lot of applicants, sway towards downplaying themsleves, whereas this should really be where you sell yourself well. I once watched a webinar on personal branding when applying for jobs, and this is where you really hone into any standout qualities, achievements, backed up with specific examples, that could elevate your application.

Best of luck.. hope this helps!

 

[ChloeC]

Hey, I don’t think so. I could be remembering wrong but pretty sure they said they would make decisions this week and come back to us either late this week or next week? I can relate though. Also feeling nervous and unable to focus at the moment

the nerves are so overwhelming at the moment but thank you!

 

[Andrei Radu]

Just had my final rejection post-AC. I'm genuinely at a loss on what to do now..

Hey @FutureTraineeMaybe I empathize with how disappointed and frustrated you must be feeling, and the first thing I will say is that these are very normal and natural sentiments to have right now. It is a uniquely painful experience that I have also gone through a number of times in my life - to have gotten so close to such an important goal for you only to feel like you failed at the finish line. I remember in my case I felt simultaneously defeated and resentful, angry both at myself and the world for all my efforts having been in vain. And worse than all, I remember this awful recurring idea that I was just not "good enough" when so many around me were, which is one that can so easily eat away at one's sense of self-worth.

So I know this is a very difficult mental space to be in, one that can't simply be solved by one well-worded encouragement post which reiterates that "all will be fine in the end". That said, I will tell you a bit about what I learnt from my own experience. Firstly, your work has not gone to waste. While they may have not ended up with the result you hoped for at the moment you hoped for it, your efforts have helped you develop in many ways you may not be seeing right now. Having gone through this application cycle, you will have learnt so much that you did not know before: how to research a firm in depth, how to write exceptional applications, how to progress through second stages, how an interview and an AC works. The very fact that you have gotten to the AC stage is already clear proof you have managed to become one of the very best candidates out of a huge pool. That is, believe me, no small feat: I know dozens of extremely talented people at UCL that have failed to get even one AC over several cycles. When you apply again, you will start from a so much stronger a position than you did at the beginning of this cycle. Your success chances will be all that higher; most people I know who end up rejected post-AC in one cycle end up getting a VS the following one.

The second thing I will say is that your experience throughout this application cycle, and particularly in dealing with the aftermath of this rejection, will form your character in invaluable ways. If I had not gone through similar experiences, I would be a significantly less resilient, adaptable, and empathetic person than I am now. While these are attributes that may sound too intangible and abstract to do much to console you now, believe me when I say that developing them is an invaluable benefit which will help you in so many areas of your life. I do not regret my experiences of rejection, and if I had a choice, I would not choose to have avoided going through them. All this is to say, your work has not all been for nothing - you will likely be both a stronger candidates and stronger person because of it. Feeling this disappointment is natural, and you should allow yourself the time to do it. However, remember you have all the proof you need that you are "good enough" and that you have all it takes to succeed. And know that if you keep moving forward, there is nothing that can stop you from getting to it!

 

[bluescarf]

Hey there,

I totally get this feeling. There are so many things one could possibly include in a cover letter given the flexibility of it. It’s far from application questions where you are directed towards a certain type of focus point, and expected to stay within that.

There are three key things worth mentioning;

• Why commercial law.
• Why the firm.
• Why you.

The three, “why’s”, essentially.

Why CL - there are so many professions out there, especially in the corporate world, and your ability to succinctly deal with the first why, helps show your reader you have thought this path through. Now, it’s not enough to just state your experiences, you need to precisely show what you did during that period. Further, you will still need to take it to the next level by showcasing why and how that links to commercial law (or an aspect of it, like a practice area), to create a good answer. At this point, you do not need to worry about whether the experiences you choose, or the practice areas you talk about, are a core area of the firm you are applying to. Just showing your journey and how you discovered this path is enough. Law firms want to see your story. How you genuinely communciate this passion is by showing them this. You could say something like you tried X didn’t like it because of Y and Z. You then maybe tried B and picked out that you liked O and G, which commercial law offers, and decided that this was a great path to go down for I and J reasons. Apologies for bombarding you with alphabets, but essentially this is the structure you should aim for (or some variation of it).

Why the firm - as above, seeing as there are so many firms out there, even this is a rather challenging question to answer. Many firms work on similar types of work, similar kinds of deals, have similar core practices, and so on. If the firm operates within a niche area, typically not done by other firms that are reasonably considered its competitors, this could be a distinguishing factor which could draw you more to the firm you are applying to. Focusing clearly on these niche aspects (though I appreciate this may not always be the case/ easy to find), will help your answer appear less generic, and showcase yourself as a candidate that actually knows what they want, AND has done research into knowing where they can get that.

Why you - this is perhaps the easiest and hardest question of all. It’s easy because you know yourself and experiences well, so this should not be hard to communicate. It’s hard because I see a lot of applicants, sway towards downplaying themsleves, whereas this should really be where you sell yourself well. I once watched a webinar on personal branding when applying for jobs, and this is where you really hone into any standout qualities, achievements, backed up with specific examples, that could elevate your application.

Best of luck.. hope this helps!

Thank you so much for the detailed response, and thank you @Ram Sabaratnam for your earlier response too. Both helpful in stopping me from essentially overthinking this! For reference, it's PMC (DTC). Thanks again, I will be applying these pointers for sure

 

[FutureTraineeMaybe]

Hey @FutureTraineeMaybe I empathize with how disappointed and frustrated you must be feeling, and the first thing I will say is that these are very normal and natural sentiments to have right now. It is a uniquely painful experience that I have also gone through a number of times in my life - to have gotten so close to such an important goal for you only to feel like you failed at the finish line. I remember in my case I felt simultaneously defeated and resentful, angry both at myself and the world for all my efforts having been in vain. And worse than all, I remember this awful recurring idea that I was just not "good enough" when so many around me were, which is one that can so easily eat away at one's sense of self-worth.

So I know this is a very difficult mental space to be in, one that can't simply be solved by one well-worded encouragement post which reiterates that "all will be fine in the end". That said, I will tell you a bit about what I learnt from my own experience. Firstly, your work has not gone to waste. While they may have not ended up with the result you hoped for at the moment you hoped for it, your efforts have helped you develop in many ways you may not be seeing right now. Having gone through this application cycle, you will have learnt so much that you did not know before: how to research a firm in depth, how to write exceptional applications, how to progress through second stages, how an interview and an AC works. The very fact that you have gotten to the AC stage is already clear proof you have managed to become one of the very best candidates out of a huge pool. That is, believe me, no small feat: I know dozens of extremely talented people at UCL that have failed to get even one AC over several cycles. When you apply again, you will start from a so much stronger a position than you did at the beginning of this cycle. Your success chances will be all that higher; most people I know who end up rejected post-AC in one cycle end up getting a VS the following one.

The second thing I will say is that your experience throughout this application cycle, and particularly in dealing with the aftermath of this rejection, will form your character in invaluable ways. If I had not gone through similar experiences, I would be a significantly less resilient, adaptable, and empathetic person than I am now. While these are attributes that may sound too intangible and abstract to do much to console you now, believe me when I say that developing them is an invaluable benefit which will help you in so many areas of your life. I do not regret my experiences of rejection, and if I had a choice, I would not choose to have avoided going through them. All this is to say, your work has not all been for nothing - you will likely be both a stronger candidates and stronger person because of it. Feeling this disappointment is natural, and you should allow yourself the time to do it. However, remember you have all the proof you need that you are "good enough" and that you have all it takes to succeed. And know that if you keep moving forward, there is nothing that can stop you from getting to it!

Thank you so much @Andrei Radu 🥺

 

[Andrei Radu]

Can any1 suggest good questions to ask at an AC in the interview, ive got some in mind relating to the firm itself but are there any good ones which are bit more general or specific to the interviewers I can ask?

Besides the commercial topic questions recommended by another forum member (which I also think tend to work very well, especially when there is a clear link with the partners' practice area) I would also consider asking questions based on the interviewer's personal experiences, such as:

• What has kept you at the firm (if they have started there); or why have you moved here and how does your experience here compare to that at your previous firm (if they lateraled)?
• Why have you chosen this practice area to qualify in, and what do you think is most interesting about the work it involves?
• What is the most interesting deal/case/matter that you have worked on?
• What moment/piece of work stood out to you the most during your time at the firm?
• What qualities differentiate successful from unsuccessful trainees in your view; and in your experience, what qualities are most important for professional success over the long term?
• What is your strategy for business development; and how does the firm encourage/support associates in this regard?

Although you have mentioned you already have some firm-specific questions in mind, I just thought to list a few which I have seen candidates often miss but which seemed to me to be well-received in interviews:

• What is your firm's business strategy over the next few years, and how does the London office fit into it?
• Which firms do you most often find yourself pitching against?
• What are the firm's selling points from a client's perspective?
• What risks and market trends is the firm most worried about?

 

[lou1707]

Universities generally don't care at all about this issue.
Unfortunately it's difficult to work around this; a friend did 20 hours a week until the end of term (weeks after the course actually ended), but in the context of a vacation scheme it's likely that asking to work only 20 hours would be excessively disruptive. You also can't legally get around it by working for free.

this is acc infuriating, I'm going to university to get a job and it's that university that prevents me to get a job