TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2022-23

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NotLord Denning

Esteemed Member
Dec 18, 2020
90
106
i find it v interesting to watch someone claim to be of a minority group but deny that there would be people in the same/other minority group who have more hurdles to jump. there would ofc be those not as well-off as you, cannot afford the same education resources you had access to, went to universities less 'prestigious' and have fewer connections in the industry to gather proper information of what the process is about and how to ace the process...empathy shouldn't be that difficult
I can be empathetic to people but that does not equate to allowing them to make negative inferences about what I say or my character, and it certainly does not mean I have to agree with all their points. I haven't made any personal attacks on anyone on this thread, although the same cannot be said of my opposition. So as far as I'm concerned, I've done nothing foul
 

Abii

Legendary Member
Junior Lawyer
Feb 1, 2021
280
871
regardless, this isn't a legal situation. It's a debate held in good faith and I think a more prudent way to settle things would literally just be to ask what I meant instead of demanding I change the language I use
I didn't need to ask what you meant. I knew you meant disabled applicants on one hand and non-disabled on the other. There is nothing to settle, I merely pointed that the way I distinguished between the two characteristics was the way to do so without using ableist language. You are trying to engage in a debate about diversity and discrimination yet cannot acknowledge when your own language continues to perpetuate discriminatory beliefs.
 

NotLord Denning

Esteemed Member
Dec 18, 2020
90
106
When did I mention "untouchable", I said it's important to be educated on the matter before speaking out of turn.

Yk what, Mr. I know everything about racism. Goodluck with your endeavours. I hope they don't put you on the DE&I team in the future.

How's that for rude for and sarcasm.

Goodnight fellas.
This is literally what you are implying when you call someone uneducated or ignorant for not agreeing with your view. You are essentially gatekeeping on what ideas can be questioned. I never claimed that I know everything about racism and I still don't understand why you keep spewing personal insults when every here has been relatively respectful to one another. You don't have to be condescending just because someone disagrees with you. Be tolerant of opposing viewpoints and who knows, someone might actually change your mind or have their mind changed by you.
 

NotLord Denning

Esteemed Member
Dec 18, 2020
90
106
I didn't need to ask what you meant. I knew you meant disabled applicants on one hand and non-disabled on the other. There is nothing to settle, I merely pointed that the way I distinguished between the two characteristics was the way to do so without using ableist language. You are trying to engage in a debate about diversity and discrimination yet cannot acknowledge when your own language continues to perpetuate discriminatory beliefs.
I also did mention that I'm not responsible for how other people feel. Again, if other people don't understand me or need to clarify all they need to do is ask. As you mentioned, you never thought I meant to cause offence and if that's how the lay man sees it I don't see what I need to police my speech
 
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peachlemonade

Standard Member
Premium Member
Feb 3, 2023
6
35
There are times when you can feel the implicit racial bias of people... recently in an assessment centre, candidates got to know each other before we started our group tasks. It was three white people and me (with no assessor/ recruitment). One person asked the other two white people directly where they were from & how they were doing; I tried to answer after the first person answered and got cut off by the person asking "how about you [name of second person]"? No one followed up for me. I don't think anyone is being racist on purpose but it felt like they already decided it wasn't worth knowing anything about me because of my race. A very awkward silence followed afterwards...
 

Stasis

Distinguished Member
Mar 14, 2022
61
146
In regards to your comment about the essence of a debate, it is important to consider the larger context and the impact that these debates can have on real people and their experiences. Racism and inequality have been debated for centuries, and while discussions and debates are a crucial part of the process of creating change, they must also be informed by a deep understanding of the history and the ongoing effects of these issues.

In my view, it is not appropriate to dismiss the experiences and perspectives of minority groups and their advocates as simply a matter of opinion. Racism is a systemic issue that has real and lasting effects on the lives of millions of people, and it is important to approach these conversations with empathy and a commitment to finding solutions.

I am not being sarcastic or petty at all. I definitely hope he gets a TC, but I will simply not waste my time continuing or tolerating the conversation. There is no "civil, logical manner" about asking us how minorities have "fought tooth and nail to be given equality of opportunity". That's blatantly disrespectful to those who have lead the way for us. And don't tell me that it was a genuine question, because everyone knows who Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther, or Rosa Parks is.
But if you accept that he’s also a minority, then aren’t you also dismissing his experience? This seems quite hypocritical.
 

NotLord Denning

Esteemed Member
Dec 18, 2020
90
106
There are times when you can feel the implicit racial bias of people... recently in an assessment centre, candidates got to know each other before we started our group tasks. It was three white people and me (with no assessor/ recruitment). One person asked the other two white people directly where they were from & how they were doing; I tried to answer after the first person answered and got cut off by the person asking "how about you [name of second person]"? No one followed up for me. I don't think anyone is being racist on purpose but it felt like they already decided it wasn't worth knowing anything about me because of my race. A very awkward silence followed afterwards...
Yeah I mean there are definitely instances of individual racism, but there are always going to be bad people everywhere you go. Just need to make sure it doesn't distract you from your end game
 
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Abii

Legendary Member
Junior Lawyer
Feb 1, 2021
280
871
I also did mention that I'm not responsible for how other people feel. Again, if other people don't understand me or need to clarify all they need to do is ask. As you mentioned, you never thought I meant to cause offence and if that's how the lay man sees it I don't see what I need to police my speech
However you are responsible for the words you chose to put on the internet. I fail to understand how on the one hand you are calling a law firm discriminatory for guaranteeing interviews yet do not feel the need to not use discriminatory language yourself.
 

kokothemagicdragon

Legendary Member
Junior Lawyer
  • Dec 23, 2021
    153
    274
    I've had two Virtual Assessment Centres this past month, with decent mid-higher echelon firms and the biggest takeaway I had was where are all the guys were at lol. In my group exercise of 12, I was the only guy and in my case study of 6, I was again the only guy. More so, there was only one other POC in both my Assessment Centres. I was wondering whether these are experiences shared by others, or if I am a lone wolf in that regard. Thanks!!
    I'm all for this discussion but can you have it on this thread (quoted above) rather than populate the VS thread. Makes it difficult for others to understand what is happening even if they are following...
     

    NotLord Denning

    Esteemed Member
    Dec 18, 2020
    90
    106
    However you are responsible for the words you chose to put on the internet. I fail to understand how on the one hand you are calling a law firm discriminatory for guaranteeing interviews yet do not feel the need to not use discriminatory language yourself.
    Well one reason is because of how subjective language can be. I mean you only have to look at what words were considered offensive a year ago and now are completely fine. Words like 'queer' etc. Where I come from people are more concerned with what you meant than what you write. And as long as that's settled everything's fine.

    However, showing preferential treatment at any stage of a hiring process based on a non-meritocratic characteristic or an immutable characteristic is flat-out discrimination however you look at it. The standard for this is much clearer
     

    Jessica Booker

    Legendary Member
    TCLA Moderator
    Gold Member
    Graduate Recruitment
    Premium Member
    Forum Team
    Aug 1, 2019
    14,505
    20,199

    PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING


    Discussions around matters like the topics of diversity in the legal profession are important ones to have. However, in this instance, it has overtaken a thread and derailed it.

    Therefore, I would recommend that if anyone wants to continue this discussion, they start a new thread in the general discussion forum and that the focus of the discussion in placed in there so that people can choose to get involved if they want to or avoid it so they can just get their vacation scheme updates and advice.

    If it continues in this thread, I will delete any subsequent posts for this reason.
     
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