TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[Bestkid98]

Hey everyone, does anyone have tips for the assessment centre with Taylor Wessing. If so it would be greatly appreciated to get insight, advice and words of wisdom from anyone that has done it 😊

 

[Deleted member 11671]

Hi @Jessica Booker!

Due to conflicting dates, I had to decline one of my VS offer. When I called the firm, the grad rec asked whether I would be interested in joining their winter vacation scheme later this year (assuming that I do not secure any TC after this summer). Would you say that it is a common practice? I have to say that I was quite surprised.

It depends on how much they like you I suppose. I was initially supposed to do a spring scheme but my visa change was delayed. I asked if they could accommodate me for the summer scheme and they were happy to move me.

 

[LawfulRust00]

What’s the highest number of vacation schemes you have seen somebody secure in the same cycle?

3 = Like
4 = Laugh react
5 = Trophy react
6 = Surprise react
7+ = Angry react

 

[LawfulRust00]

What’s the highest number of vacation schemes you have seen somebody secure in the same cycle?

3 = Like
4 = Laugh react
5 = Trophy react
6 = Surprise react
7+ = Angry react

@Adrian_S Wow, 7+ in the *same* cycle?

 

[James Carrabino]

Hey @gracelaw_,

Congratulations on the scheme once again! When is your scheme?

On my vacation scheme I was not actually formally interviewed at all. There was a final exit Partner 'chat' (which we were told was not assessed), and in all fairness the Partner that spoke with me was absolutely lovely. He basically asked about the best bits of my time at the firm and what I had enjoyed/not enjoyed doing etc.

One slightly scary thing that did happen was the head of the group that I was sat in (in both seats) gave me an impromptu call to check-in (which did feel a bit like an interview). Although again I think that this may just have been more of a check-in rather than an interview.

Broadly speaking my tips specifically for HSF would be:

• Be organised with your time. Both my supervisors on my scheme said they wanted me to demonstrate good time management and the ability to handle different work streams. To do this, make sure that you ask the questions included in my post (linked below) whenever you are given a task. HSF (in my experience) is not a firm where working extra late as a vacation schemer will be admired. I was really encouraged to employ sustainable working habits.
• Proactively reach out to people that are working in practice areas that interest you. This is not something that will get you extra credit, but it will give you a better 'feel' of the firm and the sorts of opportunities that would be available to you if you trained there. My experience of the firm was that people were particularly willing to put aside time to speak to vacation schemers, so make the most of the opportunity!
• Have a high attention to detail. This really matters at HSF. Spelling errors are viewed as careless and will count against you (in your assessed tasks, for example). Related to this point (and this might sound obvious) is that the tasks you are given are not necessarily split neatly into assessed and non-assessed tasks. I think that my supervisors were able to choose the best/most representative piece of work that I produced during my seat with them, so treat anything and everything that you do for your supervisor like it is assessed. This could include verbal summaries too, for example.
• Show that you are open-minded. Often people go to HSF for its disputes work. However, this overlooks the fact that HSF is one of the few firms which gives its trainees the opportunity to experience top work in both contentious and non-contentious practice areas. It is great to demonstrate enthusiasm about HSF's full offering rather than a wish to do a particular sort of work. That being said, it is absolutely fine to show interest in a particular area (just as long as this is coupled with an open mind about other practice areas too!).

Here are some links to (some of) the best content on the forum. I hope this will be helpful reading ahead of your vacation scheme:

• My tips for converting vacation schemes (some of this will be repeated content!)
• @Daniel Boden's tips
• If the scheme is virtual (I understand that this is unlikely though!), this thread is worth a look
• The team's top tips (led by @Jaysen!)
• Neville's (hugely thorough) reflections
• @Dheepa's tips for interviews, just in case the format of the scheme at HSF has changed
• @Jacob Miller's Linktree (if you have not seen Jacob's articles already, they are a must-read)

Please do reach out if you need anything else Grace! That goes for anyone else wanting thoughts on this topic (or anything else!)

So I think this depends on the firm actually @FS.

For example, at Slaughters, I would think that it was a topic where having a point of view that you can confidently defend would be entirely appropriate. One of the things that I would change about my general interview approach looking back would be to be more ambitious with the opinions I put forward. I think it is risky to appear too hesitant on contentious topics (sometimes) so I don't think that this approach is always the best option.


Hey @hungry_for_TC,

I know that you have received a reply to this already, but I just wanted to thank you for being so willing to help the community. These interview accounts are invaluable for the community (and in my opinion open up the recruitment process to those who do not have a pre-existing network to draw on!).

I am so pleased that you have had success this cycle 🚲 too!

@WannabeSolicitor24 @James Carrabino ?

@James Carrabino I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on this!

For those that do not know, James was a prolific application reviewer for the team earlier in the year so he has some fantastic advice to share.

If you have not already, I would really recommend taking a look through this thread (where he reveals common application pitfalls) which is based off his application review role at TCLA!

Hey @21wajsz,

I am sorry to hear that you have had such a stressful experience. I fully empathise. Similar things happened to me when I was applying! All I would say is that GR would not have emailed you so that you supply it if they didn't want to read it!

Please do let me know how it goes 💪

Hey @S87,

How did the chat go?

For what it's worth, my advice for this would be to speak to them like they are a human being (rather than a living answer bank. I have had people reach out to me about my experiences in the past (obviously I am not an associate (yet 😉)), but the conversations which I feel that both I (and the person I am speaking to) get the most out of are those which are more natural.

A great way to do this is to treat it as an opportunity to learn about the other person's experiences and see where it goes from there (e.g., why did they choose law? Why the firm? What do they enjoy about the job? Is there anything they would do differently?).

Hey @M991,

Adding to what Jess already said on this, this actually happened to me when I was applying too so I do not think it is hugely unusual. That being said, well done though! The firm obviously really liked you and recognised that you have potential! 🚀

Thank you @George Maxwell for tagging me in this and I am flattered that you linked my thread! By the way, thanks for seeking my input but sadly I do not have any experience with Cooley (you may be getting confused with Covington )

@syw to answer your question about how to approach the question, 'What is the biggest opportunity for this firm in future?' I would start off by saying that the strongest applications I reviewed always made an effort to relate their answer as closely as possible to the firm that they are applying to.

For example, it may be true to say something like legal tech is the biggest opportunity for any given firm (that is just one example, you could make a case for dozens of other things), but without being more specific than that your answer will not seem to be related closely enough to the firm. If the firm has an excellent technology practice and you are able to mention that whilst drawing in the exact area of legal tech which you think would serve as an opportunity for the firm in question, then you would have a much more compelling answer.

You could look at particular focuses that the firm has by region or practice area when thinking about your answer to this

 

[Adrian_S]

@Adrian_S Wow, 7+ in the *same* cycle?

yep, but i was speaking about this to someone after i saw your post and now we think the person i had in mind may well have exaggerated the number of offers he received 😑

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Adrian_S Wow, 7+ in the *same* cycle?

I’d say this is rare, only where many people will withdraw from recruitment processes and therefore will remove their chances of getting offers from multiple firms once they have their spring/summer full.

There will be a fair number of people with 4-5 offers though. I’d say from my experience about 20-25% of my vac scheme cohorts used to be from those with 4 schemes (1 spring, 3 summer).

 

[toriandersen]

Hey guys have a partner interview with pwc next week and not too sure what to expect! If anyone has any tips they’d be happy to share please pm me would love to chat

 

[George Maxwell]

Thank you @George Maxwell for tagging me in this and I am flattered that you linked my thread! By the way, thanks for seeking my input but sadly I do not have any experience with Cooley (you may be getting confused with Covington )

@syw to answer your question about how to approach the question, 'What is the biggest opportunity for this firm in future?' I would start off by saying that the strongest applications I reviewed always made an effort to relate their answer as closely as possible to the firm that they are applying to.

For example, it may be true to say something like legal tech is the biggest opportunity for any given firm (that is just one example, you could make a case for dozens of other things), but without being more specific than that your answer will not seem to be related closely enough to the firm. If the firm has an excellent technology practice and you are able to mention that whilst drawing in the exact area of legal tech which you think would serve as an opportunity for the firm in question, then you would have a much more compelling answer.

You could look at particular focuses that the firm has by region or practice area when thinking about your answer to this

@James Carrabino you are absolutely right- apologies for the confusion! @syw I hope that helps! I think James has some fantastic insights (as he just demonstrated).

Incidentally, there might be some other application reviewers sharing their experiences on the forum in the near future.

Watch this space! 👀🚀👀

 

[BM99]

Just curious, how many VS do people normally secure in their first application cycle?

 

[Abii]

@Adrian_S Wow, 7+ in the *same* cycle?

What impresses me most about this is having the time to manage 7+ applications in the same cycle 😂 I managed 5 this cycle and that’s the most I’ve ever found time to do and 4 of those were started and finished on the deadline day.

 

[amzey2]

Due to conflicting dates, I had to decline one of my VS offer. When I called the firm, the grad rec asked whether I would be interested in joining their winter vacation scheme later this year (assuming that I do not secure any TC after this summer). Would you say that it is a common practice? I have to say that I was quite surprised.

Happened here too.

 

[AvniD]

Do you think it is a disadvantage if the word count for your application forms answers is significantly lower than the maximum word count?

My writing style is usually very succinct, but based on the feedback I have received at uni, I rarely omit important things. For example, I have gotten high 2.1s before on 2500w essays where I had only written 1600 words.

I am now writing the answers to some questions that have a 400w maximum low count and I am struggling to write more than 275-300w without giving unnecessary details just for the sake of raising the word count.

Sometimes additional details come out from reflecting more deeply about the question and your thought process. For example, if they ask you to tell them about a time that you worked in a team project, you could fill that word count out by providing context, walking the reader through your objectives, challenges, strengths, strategy and outcome.

In the end, as Jessica said, staying within 80% of the word count is important. The word counts don't always make sense but it's a good place to showcase your ability to present your thoughts in a variety of ways, including succinct and verbose paragraphs, which is ultimately an important skill for a lawyer to possess.

 

[s10]

Congrats, this is really impressive - and you're the person who said they'd contemplated taking the year out! Any tips on what helped you make such a difference this time around?

Honestly, what made the biggest difference for me was - mindset. After failing to convert my first vac scheme into a training contract and then failing to get any vac schemes for two years, I was devastated. I spent two years going through hundreds of applications made by other students trying to identify a formula for how to write successful applications without any avail. In all honesty, I equated my value and self-esteem with a training contract and vac scheme, thus allowing every rejection to bring me down just a little bit more. This was definitely the most toxic thing I have ever done to myself because instead of emphasising my own characteristics and skills and interests in applications, I was now in a mindset where I was constantly comparing myself to other applicants and feeling pretty low about myself. Mind you, this problem was a lot harder to deal with because I am also an international student and in my Asian country there is an incredible amount of pressure to be successful, especially if you study abroad, and failing to convert a degree into a job abroad is usually quite shameful in the society I come from. All of this translated into the quality of applications I was sending out, because they were now looking increasingly replicated and generic and did not nearly cover my interests + skills adequately.

So last year, after I graduated, I genuinely asked myself - is this career still something I want and something I am equipped for, or is it peer-pressure from being in law school and only being considered successful if you have an 'incoming trainee solicitor' tag on linkedin? I have always been deeply interested in law and enjoyed all my exposure to law firms, so I knew this was definitely the career I wanted and then this became the starting point for me to recalibrate my mindset.

Over the last year then, I only made applications to firms that genuinely interested me, even if they were slightly smaller, and avoided making applications just for their prestige or reputation. I focussed on myself and my interests, attending virtual law fairs and speaking to solicitors about the work they did to understand what practice area focus should I maintain. A tip here (and this might be slightly controversial) is that I did not let any peers proof-read my applications - I did this because for me personally, this exercise was a gateway to doubting myself and letting other people dictate what I should convey about myself rather than choosing myself. I also focussed on shedding away some of my writing flourish and chose instead to write in a direct and mature manner - always answering the question and linking the skill/experience back to the firm without giving excessive details. Finally, and this was something I was only able to do after graduating, was making early applications. Most assessment centres I secured this year involved me sending out the application a day or two after the firm's window opened, so I will really really recommend if you can to send out the application super early!

In the end, if I had to summarise and talk about the single most effective tip to getting a tc - it is resilience. As long as you keep dusting yourself off, recalibrating, re-applying and reconsidering your career goals, you will get that TC. Regardless of the external pressure associated with this career, only you determine your self-worth and I promise that if you just keep making those applications - something incredible will come out of it

 

[LEL]

Honestly, what made the biggest difference for me was - mindset. After failing to convert my first vac scheme into a training contract and then failing to get any vac schemes for two years, I was devastated. I spent two years going through hundreds of applications made by other students trying to identify a formula for how to write successful applications without any avail. In all honesty, I equated my value and self-esteem with a training contract and vac scheme, thus allowing every rejection to bring me down just a little bit more. This was definitely the most toxic thing I have ever done to myself because instead of emphasising my own characteristics and skills and interests in applications, I was now in a mindset where I was constantly comparing myself to other applicants and feeling pretty low about myself. Mind you, this problem was a lot harder to deal with because I am also an international student and in my Asian country there is an incredible amount of pressure to be successful, especially if you study abroad, and failing to convert a degree into a job abroad is usually quite shameful in the society I come from. All of this translated into the quality of applications I was sending out, because they were now looking increasingly replicated and generic and did not nearly cover my interests + skills adequately.

So last year, after I graduated, I genuinely asked myself - is this career still something I want and something I am equipped for, or is it peer-pressure from being in law school and only being considered successful if you have an 'incoming trainee solicitor' tag on linkedin? I have always been deeply interested in law and enjoyed all my exposure to law firms, so I knew this was definitely the career I wanted and then this became the starting point for me to recalibrate my mindset.

Over the last year then, I only made applications to firms that genuinely interested me, even if they were slightly smaller, and avoided making applications just for their prestige or reputation. I focussed on myself and my interests, attending virtual law fairs and speaking to solicitors about the work they did to understand what practice area focus should I maintain. A tip here (and this might be slightly controversial) is that I did not let any peers proof-read my applications - I did this because for me personally, this exercise was a gateway to doubting myself and letting other people dictate what I should convey about myself rather than choosing myself. I also focussed on shedding away some of my writing flourish and chose instead to write in a direct and mature manner - always answering the question and linking the skill/experience back to the firm without giving excessive details. Finally, and this was something I was only able to do after graduating, was making early applications. Most assessment centres I secured this year involved me sending out the application a day or two after the firm's window opened, so I will really really recommend if you can to send out the application super early!

In the end, if I had to summarise and talk about the single most effective tip to getting a tc - it is resilience. As long as you keep dusting yourself off, recalibrating, re-applying and reconsidering your career goals, you will get that TC. Regardless of the external pressure associated with this career, only you determine your self-worth and I promise that if you just keep making those applications - something incredible will come out of it

Love this Monday morning motivation!

 

[Crystal86]

Hi! If asked at interview "why law and why not consulting?" What would you recommend saying?

 

[Law1099]

4-5 VS offers is pretty common. The number then likely increases if you also take into account TC offers from the completed VS’. Beyond that, ppl normally withdraw/refrain from pursuing their other apps because of clashing dates - so they usually start applying to Direct TCs from there on.

4-5 vs offers is common?! I don’t think this is accurate

 

[ssolicitorz]

I s

Just curious, how many VS do people normally secure in their first application cycle?

I secured 0 and I think its on the rare side to secure on your first cycle. When I compare my applications/understanding of what commercial law is, what the city is and general commercial awareness, it all makes sense to me why I didn't secure any. With time, you gain exposure and general knowledge which will automatically make your applications stronger!

 

[GXA123]

I s

I secured 0 and I think its on the rare side to secure on your first cycle. When I compare my applications/understanding of what commercial law is, what the city is and general commercial awareness, it all makes sense to me why I didn't secure any. With time, you gain exposure and general knowledge which will automatically make your applications stronger!

I agree I had a similar experience! and my second cycle is very successful compared to my first

 

[APPLE619]

When it comes to getting VS's I think it's very important to remember getting 1 is the biggest challenge out there. The applicants who can secure one in the first place often have the necessary skills to secure another (i.e. strong commercial awareness, the ability to write good applications, strong grades etc). In my opinion, there isn't a huge amount of difference between someone who secured one vac scheme and someone who secured 4, simply because you already can demonstrate the necessary skills to secure multiple vac schemes once you've secured the first one. This is why, in my opinion, I see many people either securing 0 vac schemes (i.e. luck wasn't on their side or they simply may not have been good enough this cycle), 1 vac scheme (and no more because why to bother or it'll overlap with others), or some high number like 4 (because they were skilled enough to get one, and now can just get multiple since they have the skills).

My point is there's no point comparing yourself to someone who received 4 VS offers (and thinking that the person who secured 1 or 0 isn't as great) – there are many factors that can come into play (i.e. he/she made fewer applications, or the VS they secured overlaps with many other VS dates). I recommend focusing on just getting one and keeping your head up!