TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

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Lumree

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    I'm probably going to sound stupid rn but how relevant is the metaverse concept to law firms? Because it's off going to have a lot of legal issues which underpin it as it begins but will law firms develop specific niches in this type of law? or would it come under something broader like technology or maybe alongside NFT type stuff? I've also noticed virtually no law firms have wrote or published anything about it which indicates what their approach will be to such a thing. sorry if I sound stupid again, this is not my area of expertise!!!
    This is an interesting read: https://www.nortonrosefulbright.com...a1abb9f/nfts-and-intellectual-property-rights

    TLDR; NFTs spring up a lot of copyright debates and IP exploitation that lawyers will be involved in!
     

    Rob93

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    Dec 29, 2020
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    How would one answer the question "how do you feel about representing a client that has caused environmental damage" -
    I would say I feel not great about that, but of course most clients have and it's just a reality of the modern economy. If you're representing them in like, a class action or regulatory claim or something relating to that damage I think you need to discuss something along the lines of a commitment to access to justice & due process for all comers, and you have to mean it. I think it's also okay to draw your line in the sand, provided that it's reasonable, well thought-out and you can defend it well. I would probably draw my line at like, not working with clients who are wilfully and gleefully wreaking havoc upon the world, or merely greenwashing their business - ethics aside it's bad branding with the winds of change approaching gale force.

    Different firms will have different expectations - V&E prints a bunch of ties with like pipeline and oil well micropatterns every year so I wouldn't take a bleeding heart line with them, some other firms even though they have highly polluting clients are a bit more comfortable with voicing ethical compunctions.
     

    SCN

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    Yeah, I hear that. But I think a lot of it comes across - for lack of an appropriate euphemism - a bit 'needy' or adolescent. If you can't deal with the stress synonymous with the law application process (on your own accord) then you probably won't make a very good lawyer to start with. In short, yes it's a bit stressful, but it's nothing like the stressors you'll encounter during practice.

    I'm currently practicing as an analyst and wish to convert. I'm doing my applications around my current role (which is highly stressful) and it's a walk in the park compared, but that's just my view. I've been to hell and back before, so I guess I must just be used to it.
    Thanks @iolitelegal for voicing your opinions. I agree with your points that aspiring lawyers during the app process need an ability to handle stress. Lawyers definitely have very stressful jobs and knowing how to manage it is very important. At the same time, I also strongly believe that lawyers need to possess people skills i.e., empathy and an understanding of other people. Whilst you may have been 'through hell and back' and you're used to high levels of stress, others haven't. Understanding that this might be the first time that people are encountering such stressful situations is really important. Imagine you're talking to a really stressed out client who's worried about a particular issue. And that client is bugging you all the time and coming across as "needy" or "adolescent". You need to be empathetic/understanding that they're dealing with something challenging even if you personally don't think it's that stressful
     

    S87

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    I would say I feel not great about that, but of course most clients have and it's just a reality of the modern economy. If you're representing them in like, a class action or regulatory claim or something relating to that damage I think you need to discuss something along the lines of a commitment to access to justice & due process for all comers, and you have to mean it. I think it's also okay to draw your line in the sand, provided that it's reasonable, well thought-out and you can defend it well. I would probably draw my line at like, not working with clients who are wilfully and gleefully wreaking havoc upon the world, or merely greenwashing their business - ethics aside it's bad branding with the winds of change approaching gale force.

    Different firms will have different expectations - V&E prints a bunch of ties with like pipeline and oil well micropatterns every year so I wouldn't take a bleeding heart line with them, some other firms even though they have highly polluting clients are a bit more comfortable with voicing ethical compunctions.
    Dechert are representing Purdue pharma! Who singly caused the opioid crisis in USA. A disaster that is crippling families and bankrupting entire municipalities!
     

    Scandi

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  • Jan 28, 2021
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    Any help deeply appreciated:

    Fieldfisher's application is open to 'final-year students of all degree disciplines'.

    Does this mean PGDL students also can apply? Despite PGDL being only one year, it's also per se the final year (although after an undergraduate degree).
     

    SCN

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    Any help deeply appreciated:

    Fieldfisher's application is open to 'final-year students of all degree disciplines'.

    Does this mean PGDL students also can apply? Despite PGDL being only one year, it's also per se the final year (although after an undergraduate degree).
    Im not familiar with fieldfisher's app process but it seems like to me that it means final year students in an undergraduate degree. I would check with grad rec whether graduates can apply
     
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    Rob93

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    Dechert are representing Purdue pharma! Who singly caused the opioid crisis in USA. A disaster that is crippling families and bankrupting entire municipalities!
    I believe at this point they're being liquidated and proceeds going towards settling claims and trying to mitigate some of the damage done. It's a sordid history and I wouldn't be clamouring to have them in my rolodex but the work does need to be done. To a certain extent, also, I think there's something to be said for viewing this through the lens of systemic political and regulatory failure rather than as like, a standout instance of corporate malfeasance (although it was also that).

    Don't really want to go out on a limb defending Purdue or the Sacklers (I am not employed by Dechert and they are not paying me) but like, there are a few ways to think about these things.
     

    S87

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    I believe at this point they're being liquidated and proceeds going towards settling claims and trying to mitigate some of the damage done. It's a sordid history and I wouldn't be clamouring to have them in my rolodex but the work does need to be done. To a certain extent, also, I think there's something to be said for viewing this through the lens of systemic political and regulatory failure rather than as like, a standout instance of corporate malfeasance (although it was also that).

    Don't really want to go out on a limb defending Purdue or the Sacklers (I am not employed by Dechert and they are not paying me) but like, there are a few ways to think about these things.
    The regulators/agencies responsibilities are immense. However, going in front of a committee and blatantly laugh in the face of people who have lost everything is a kick in the teeth. I believe that they took advantage of the shit American bankruptcy law. Sometimes PR work is as important as Legal work, sometimes is not what you say but how you say it. Sometimes I draw a line because we are becoming the haves and have not!
     
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    CorporateLaw101

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  • Nov 16, 2021
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    How would one answer the question "how do you feel about representing a client that has caused environmental damage" -
    What a thought provoking question. Which firm is this for and is it for a vacation scheme?

    In answer to your question, I'll keep it brief as @Rob93 and others have provided great answers. In my mind, every decision that a firm makes in relation to client matters is generally/should be in the interest of wider stakeholders.

    I was discussing this with a friend the other day and thought: The client that you are representing is often publicly listed, which means that the 'wider stakeholders' often include pension funds, ISAs, other funds etc all the way down to individual shareholders. Understandably, investors know, or should know, that their capital is at risk. However, coming from a pure capitalistic point of view, at least you may be saving normal people that don't even realise they are invested in the company £millions.

    Also, from a less capitalistic point of view, it could come down to the jobs that one is saving in the process of successful representation.

    It's a ruthless world and thats just my two-cents. I also agree with the other points mentioned.
     

    esther18

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    Feb 4, 2021
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    The white & case video interview platform isn’t working for me for some reason and I was wondering if anyone was experiencing the same thing? I’m currently on the practice question screen and it won’t let me click through to the actual interview! Not sure what to do 😅
     

    GXA123

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  • Nov 30, 2020
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    The white & case video interview platform isn’t working for me for some reason and I was wondering if anyone was experiencing the same thing? I’m currently on the practice question screen and it won’t let me click through to the actual interview! Not sure what to do 😅
    try a different browser, are u using safari?
     

    Commerciallaw

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  • Aug 30, 2021
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    I would say I feel not great about that, but of course most clients have and it's just a reality of the modern economy. If you're representing them in like, a class action or regulatory claim or something relating to that damage I think you need to discuss something along the lines of a commitment to access to justice & due process for all comers, and you have to mean it. I think it's also okay to draw your line in the sand, provided that it's reasonable, well thought-out and you can defend it well. I would probably draw my line at like, not working with clients who are wilfully and gleefully wreaking havoc upon the world, or merely greenwashing their business - ethics aside it's bad branding with the winds of change approaching gale force.

    Different firms will have different expectations - V&E prints a bunch of ties with like pipeline and oil well micropatterns every year so I wouldn't take a bleeding heart line with them, some other firms even though they have highly polluting clients are a bit more comfortable with voicing ethical compunctions.

    What a thought provoking question. Which firm is this for and is it for a vacation scheme?

    In answer to your question, I'll keep it brief as @Rob93 and others have provided great answers. In my mind, every decision that a firm makes in relation to client matters is generally/should be in the interest of wider stakeholders.

    I was discussing this with a friend the other day and thought: The client that you are representing is often publicly listed, which means that the 'wider stakeholders' often include pension funds, ISAs, other funds etc all the way down to individual shareholders. Understandably, investors know, or should know, that their capital is at risk. However, coming from a pure capitalistic point of view, at least you may be saving normal people that don't even realise they are invested in the company £millions.

    Also, from a less capitalistic point of view, it could come down to the jobs that one is saving in the process of successful representation.

    It's a ruthless world and thats just my two-cents. I also agree with the other points mentioned.
    Thank you for your replies! Definitely very helpful!

    In response to your question @CorporateLaw101 - I am aware that CC has asked this question during a TC interview :)
     
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    iolitelegal

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    Jan 16, 2022
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    Thanks @iolitelegal for voicing your opinions. I agree with your points that aspiring lawyers during the app process need an ability to handle stress. Lawyers definitely have very stressful jobs and knowing how to manage it is very important. At the same time, I also strongly believe that lawyers need to possess people skills i.e., empathy and an understanding of other people. Whilst you may have been 'through hell and back' and you're used to high levels of stress, others haven't. Understanding that this might be the first time that people are encountering such stressful situations is really important. Imagine you're talking to a really stressed out client who's worried about a particular issue. And that client is bugging you all the time and coming across as "needy" or "adolescent". You need to be empathetic/understanding that they're dealing with something challenging even if you personally don't think it's that stressful
    This is an excellent point and I couldn't agree more. Of course, I have empathy for anyone who is genuinely stressed out by the process. My initial comment merely referred to those who were constantly inquiring as to the position of others. I simply suggested that they focus on themselves to avoid the inevitable stress associated with application uncertainty.
     

    Asil Ahmad

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  • Mar 29, 2020
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    mmm..I am part of Aspire and believe me I have received more help on here than Aspire! Spending 8 hours on a single file calls for mistakes! Print and read the file out loud 3 times, or just read it out loud a couple of times.
    I actually agree with you as I have benefitted from the forum a lot and know someone who was on Aspire last year and they said it was not that helpful.
     

    Asil Ahmad

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    8 hours to proof read one application?! That seems rather overboard. I don’t think I’ve ever spent that proofreading masters essays of 7.5-10k words let alone an app with maybe 1-2k words 😂
    Yes I know what you mean like I honestly think 2 hours should be enough to make an average answer look really strong.
     
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    AvniD

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    Oct 25, 2021
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    What's the average amount of time you guys spend on one application when not rushing? I feel exceptionally slow...
    @iolitelegal I've actively spent about one week/10 days on an app, with some more passive effort (attending events, networking) occurring over months. Everybody's speed and priorities are different and as long as you're able to submit them in time to a high standard, you're good.

    If a firm asks you “why did you apply for a Vacation Scheme with us” at interview after they have asked why the firm, should this be taken to mean why I am applying for that role in particular? For instance, getting more legal experience?
    @ek125712 I would break down the question down into two parts- why the vacation scheme and why at the firm. Alternatively, you could break it down into how the vacation scheme at the firm stands out and, potentially even, why this firm. I hope this helps?

    I'm probably going to sound stupid rn but how relevant is the metaverse concept to law firms? Because it's off going to have a lot of legal issues which underpin it as it begins but will law firms develop specific niches in this type of law? or would it come under something broader like technology or maybe alongside NFT type stuff? I've also noticed virtually no law firms have wrote or published anything about it which indicates what their approach will be to such a thing. sorry if I sound stupid again, this is not my area of expertise!!!
    @therealellewoods things that matter to their clients matter to firms. They may not have written on it for a myriad range of reasons- maybe they're still figuring things out, maybe they haven't had to deal with it in a tangible way yet, maybe they don't want to publicly discuss their approach to it at this time etc. But if you can find a way to link it to a firm's clients and their practices, then you should be able to make an impact with your answer.
     

    crispychicken

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    How would one answer the question "how do you feel about representing a client that has caused environmental damage" -
    I got asked exactly the same question at Travers a few years ago. Don't overthink it, give your answer and have a reason to back it up. The partner will challenge you no matter what answer you give. I think they want to test how you can answer unexpected questions on the spot and how you can back up your arguments.
     
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