TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[TCApp2021]

Could you still go ahead with the VS and then decide which offer to accept? That could be an option, especially if you want to find out more about the firm to inform your decision on which firm to accept.

I’m not sure how long I have to accept the offer as I haven’t been sent any paperwork yet. If it does end up being the case that I have enough time to do the VS before accepting, does it look bad if I don’t accept the direct TC offer straight away/tell them I need time because of the VS?
Just to add withe the direct TC offer they’ve offered me an earlier start date (2023) - could this be changed to 2024 if I say I want to do the VS first?

 

[LawfulRust00]

Does anyone with experience doing the McQuaig Test have any tips? Would appreciate it, thanks

 

[Jessica Booker]

I’m not sure how long I have to accept the offer as I haven’t been sent any paperwork yet. If it does end up being the case that I have enough time to do the VS before accepting, does it look bad if I don’t accept the direct TC offer straight away/tell them I need time because of the VS?
Just to add withe the direct TC offer they’ve offered me an earlier start date (2023) - could this be changed to 2024 if I say I want to do the VS first?

I’d wait until you have the paperwork then before working out what to do next.

It sounds like the VS offer would potentially convert to a 2024 TC anyway and that they were just willing to offer you an earlier 2023 direct TC process. If you are sticking to the VS offer, I don’t think you need to ask to be changed unless you have already accepted the direct TC interview process.

 

[TCApp2021]

I’d wait until you have the paperwork then before working out what to do next.

It sounds like the VS offer would potentially convert to a 2024 TC anyway and that they were just willing to offer you an earlier 2023 direct TC process. If you are sticking to the VS offer, I don’t think you need to ask to be changed unless you have already accepted the direct TC interview process.

Thank you

 

[James Carrabino]

That analogy makes sense for firms that decide on who gets places in different waves, but this firm admits they make the decisions all in one single go and tell all the partners at the same time who they should phone. I just think for that specific firm, it would make sense to then just tell everyone straight away via an email in my opinion. Because then you end up with a bunch of people celebrating and then others curled up in a fetal position because their partner was busy... seems odd to me.

Plus this isn't a dinner party haha, it's a life-changing job opportunity that may never happen again.

When deciding between firms candidates will often ask themselves, 'Who showed that they really wanted me more?' A personalised call from a partner would absolutely convince them more than a blanket e-mail!

Receiving a TC offer is a special moment and it makes no difference whether you experience that moment a few days later than others (except in your very specific instance in which you have two other TC offers to get back to) but it does make a difference how you learn about it

 

[James Carrabino]

Love this! extremely helpful, thank you

I'm always happy to be of help 😊

 

[rightletsdothis]

When deciding between firms candidates will often ask themselves, 'Who showed that they really wanted me more?' A personalised call from a partner would absolutely convince them more than a blanket e-mail!

Receiving a TC offer is a special moment and it makes no difference whether you experience that moment a few days later than others (except in your very specific instance in which you have two other TC offers to get back to) but it does make a difference how you learn about it

I agree with that 100%. It is super special! I just think if you asked the other 11 of my vacation scheme students right now who haven’t heard back, would they rather wait for an unspecified time slot to hear the response from a partner, or just get a text right now saying you have a TC, I know from speaking to them that every single one would pick the latter haha. It just gets so uncomfortable waiting honestly that any joy I’d get from being phoned from a partner doesn’t out weigh just hearing back already!!! Haha

 

[James Carrabino]

I agree with that 100%. It is super special! I just think if you asked the other 11 of my vacation scheme students right now who haven’t heard back, would they rather wait for an unspecified time slot to hear the response from a partner, or just get a text right now saying you have a TC, I know from speaking to them that every single one would pick the latter haha. It just gets so uncomfortable waiting honestly that any joy I’d get from being phoned from a partner doesn’t out weigh just hearing back already!!! Haha

I get that - I am assuming the problem is that everyone on your vac scheme has been discussing offers with one another so that gets people thinking about it!

Isn't the issue more one of waiting for a response in general though? I know for me that it was agonising to wait for a response post vac-scheme (one firm where I did a spring scheme made us wait until after they finished both their summer schemes!) but it would not have made a difference to me whether or not others had heard back as it would have been equally agonising either way!

 

[rightletsdothis]

I get that - I am assuming the problem is that everyone on your vac scheme has been discussing offers with one another so that gets people thinking about it!

Isn't the issue more one of waiting for a response in general though? I know for me that it was agonising to wait for a response post vac-scheme (one firm where I did a spring scheme made us wait until after they finished both their summer schemes!) but it would not have made a difference to me whether or not others had heard back as it would have been equally agonising either way!

Very true. Our vac scheme group is very close so we have been very open about offers etc. partly because this firm promises a space for every VS participant so there is no dog eat dog mentality.

I think it’s a bit of both here. It was hard waiting for responses but it’s harder when you see half the group gain a positive response. Because the mind games go from “I can’t wait” to “I wonder if I haven’t heard because I’m not getting in?” Or “why was I not as good as them?” Etc etc… so it’s this double whammy of waiting but also seeing others be so happy while you’re sitting here wondering if you lost your chance … at least when none of us knew, there was this connection we all had haha. All in pain, together!

 

[Jessica Booker]

I get that - I am assuming the problem is that everyone on your vac scheme has been discussing offers with one another so that gets people thinking about it!

Isn't the issue more one of waiting for a response in general though? I know for me that it was agonising to wait for a response post vac-scheme (one firm where I did a spring scheme made us wait until after they finished both their summer schemes!) but it would not have made a difference to me whether or not others had heard back as it would have been equally agonising either way!

I have known some employers (outside of law) to explicitly ask people not to talk about their offers/outcomes for this and other reasons.

 

[James Carrabino]

Very true. Our vac scheme group is very close so we have been very open about offers etc. partly because this firm promises a space for every VS participant so there is no dog eat dog mentality.

I think it’s a bit of both here. It was hard waiting for responses but it’s harder when you see half the group gain a positive response. Because the mind games go from “I can’t wait” to “I wonder if I haven’t heard because I’m not getting in?” Or “why was I not as good as them?” Etc etc… so it’s this double whammy of waiting but also seeing others be so happy while you’re sitting here wondering if you lost your chance … at least when none of us knew, there was this connection we all had haha. All in pain, together!

I feel for you! It sounds like they were fairly up front with you about the fact that they released all news (positive or negative) together and so I would not let your mind wander and start inferring anything from the delay! Hopefully the delay lasts no longer than Monday anyway

Regardless, you have done exceptionally well to receive 2 TC offers and so the agony could be worse 😊 I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!

 

[James Carrabino]

I have known some employers (outside of law) to explicitly ask people not to talk about their offers/outcomes for this and other reasons.

I've heard Freshfields is doing exactly that and it makes sense! Although when one person leaks it then the whole concept breaks down...

 

[rightletsdothis]

I feel for you! It sounds like they were fairly up front with you about the fact that they released all news (positive or negative) together and so I would not let your mind wander and start inferring anything from the delay! Hopefully the delay lasts no longer than Monday anyway

Regardless, you have done exceptionally well to receive 2 TC offers and so the agony could be worse 😊 I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!

All thanks to TCLA I should add. I had 0 acceptances for 4 years prior to joining this group.

 

[rightletsdothis]

I've heard Freshfields is doing exactly that and it makes sense! Although when one person leaks it then the whole concept breaks down...

Our firm told us not to spread info about offers but it took literally 5 seconds for that to fail. People started going “anyone receive a call?” In our group chat… and then the lid was blown right off haha

 

[James Carrabino]

Our firm told us not to spread info about offers but it took literally 5 seconds for that to fail. People started going “anyone receive a call?” In our group chat… and then the lid was blown right off haha

Haha well it happens... at least they tried not to leave you in agony by telling you that! Perhaps they figured people would follow instructions so it did not matter when the partners ended up ringing 🤣 So I do think you have to wait it out - let us know when you hear

 

[James Carrabino]

All thanks to TCLA I should add. I had 0 acceptances for 4 years prior to joining this group.

Wow - massive congratulations!!

 

[captainhilts]

Hi @James Carrabino @Jessica Booker

Hypothetically, I were to be offered a TC at the end of summer at a US firm, would I be able to defer it for a year to do a masters? Also, if my masters is in the US, would I be able to ask said US firm to transfer to their New York office rather than return to London? (it has always been a dream of mine to one day work in NYC!)

Thanks

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @James Carrabino @Jessica Booker

Hypothetically, I were to be offered a TC at the end of summer at a US firm, would I be able to defer it for a year to do a masters? Also, if my masters is in the US, would I be able to ask said US firm to transfer to their New York office rather than return to London? (it has always been a dream of mine to one day work in NYC!)

Thanks

Deferring to do a masters is fairly common. It really depends on your firm’s policy on this and whether they would make you go through a final round interview again next year (not unknown). You’d need to speak to the firm either in a VS exit interview or post offer to see the chances of that. A fair number of people defer their places across firms each year for masters study or something else, so this is not unknown and will be a common question recruitment teams get during schemes or after offers are made.

The transferring to the US office is unlikely though. It is not unknown but is exceptionally rare and when it does happen you need to be the best of the best candidate. Even when you do, you typically have to go through the US recruitment process still, just with a recommendation from the U.K. office.

Work permits are not straight forward either, so even if they did want to offer you a place in NY it may not be as simple as that if you don’t have the right to work in the US. Your profile is also not typical to US candidates, most will have a JD rather than an LLM, and so you are competing in a different student market. As a LLM student, you typically need something else significant to your profile to compete with the JD students with significant profiles. Your masters would need to be at a prominent US law school and you’d probably need to network effectively during your masters you strengthen your chances of converting to the US office or finding another US firm to work for.

You’d obviously also need to pass the NY Bar.

Most people take the view that it is easier to qualify in the U.K. and then move laterally to the US either on a trainee secondment or as an associate (either short term, long term or permanently). However, you’ll be in an environment where other people may also want the same (especially in a US firm). How likely you are to get a move across, really depends on a diverse range of circumstances, many of which will be completely out of your control.

 

[captainhilts]

Deferring to do a masters is fairly common. It really depends on your firm’s policy on this and whether they would make you go through a final round interview again next year (not unknown). You’d need to speak to the firm either in a VS exit interview or post offer to see the chances of that. A fair number of people defer their places across firms each year for masters study or something else, so this is not unknown and will be a common question recruitment teams get during schemes or after offers are made.

The transferring to the US office is unlikely though. It is not unknown but is exceptionally rare and when it does happen you need to be the best of the best candidate. Even when you do, you typically have to go through the US recruitment process still, just with a recommendation from the U.K. office.

Work permits are not straight forward either, so even if they did want to offer you a place in NY it may not be as simple as that if you don’t have the right to work in the US. Your profile is also not typical to US candidates, most will have a JD rather than an LLM, and so you are competing in a different student market. As a LLM student, you typically need something else significant to your profile to compete with the JD students with significant profiles. Your masters would need to be at a prominent US law school and you’d probably need to network effectively during your masters you strengthen your chances of converting to the US office or finding another US firm to work for.

You’d obviously also need to pass the NY Bar.

Most people take the view that it is easier to qualify in the U.K. and then move laterally to the US either on a trainee secondment or as an associate (either short term, long term or permanently). However, you’ll be in an environment where other people may also want the same (especially in a US firm). How likely you are to get a move across, really depends on a diverse range of circumstances, many of which will be completely out of your control.

Thank you very much for this insight @Jessica Booker ! In your opinion, then, what would be the best way, as a UK qualified lawyer, to permanently move to NY?

 

[letmeintolaw]

i really think i messed up my WBD video interview ahaha