TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[James Carrabino]

Can I ask something?
Is networking so fundamental? How much importance do recruiters place on name dropping?

I am not a recruiter but I don't think name dropping for its own sake is very impressive.

Showing that you have truly engaged with the firm, however, is a different story. I had an interview with a firm where I happened to recall a talk by my interviewer from several months back at the firm's open day! I had genuinely found his talk interesting and so at the end of my interview when my interviewers asked if I had any questions, I actually brought up a topic from his talk all those months ago. At a minimum, he seemed somewhat flattered that what he had said was memorable - and he knew that my interest was genuine (not pre-prepared) since we were not told who our interviewers were prior to the interview.

The same goes if you have met with or attended an event with other lawyers at the firm. Should the topic of conversation somehow make its way to a point where it would be natural to bring up your experience with other people at the firm, then feel free to do so.

I sometimes see candidates write things such as, 'I have been particularly attracted to XYZ LLP ever since I met Joe Bloggs last year and he told me about the firm's welcoming culture'. Honestly, that does not tell me anything about your interest in the firm and it is a flagrant and unsophisticated name-dropping attempt 🤣

Know that networking will not help advance your application in any way, shape or form at the vast majority of firms. I wonder whether it may even be possible that the appearance of trying to unfairly gain an upper hand could damage your chances...but to be honest, it probably never gets taken into account at all. The big London firms have such robust recruitment processes that there is simply no room for a partner to shoulder their way into the recruitment deliberations.

I still hear the occasional anecdotal tale of partners at US firms with small London presences guaranteeing interviews to candidates who have reached out and networked with them in the past. I do not know whether these stories are true, but you can bet that such a practice is rapidly dying out and never occurs at the established firms in the London legal market.

So no, networking is not fundamental at all - but by all means reach out to lawyers if it interests you and if you stand to learn something from them, as @Jessica Booker said

 

[summer207]

I've got two ACs next week and I am starting to get overwhelmed with information. I had an interview last week with a different firm where I was unable to answer a competency question and I didn't answer two commercial questions how I would have liked 🥲, and it's stressing me out that maybe I don't know as much as I should. When do you know if you've done enough? I know you cannot prepare for every single thing, but the more time I have, the more I think I should be doing more competency examples, more firm research, etc 😕

 

[letmeintolaw]

Hi all - I have two ACs coming up in two weeks from now, these are my first ever - when should I start preparing for them and how intensive should the preparation be?

 

[S87]

I am not a recruiter but I don't think name dropping for its own sake is very impressive.

Showing that you have truly engaged with the firm, however, is a different story. I had an interview with a firm where I happened to recall a talk by my interviewer from several months back at the firm's open day! I had genuinely found his talk interesting and so at the end of my interview when my interviewers asked if I had any questions, I actually brought up a topic from his talk all those months ago. At a minimum, he seemed somewhat flattered that what he had said was memorable - and he knew that my interest was genuine (not pre-prepared) since we were not told who our interviewers were prior to the interview.

The same goes if you have met with or attended an event with other lawyers at the firm. Should the topic of conversation somehow make its way to a point where it would be natural to bring up your experience with other people at the firm, then feel free to do so.

I sometimes see candidates write things such as, 'I have been particularly attracted to XYZ LLP ever since I met Joe Bloggs last year and he told me about the firm's welcoming culture'. Honestly, that does not tell me anything about your interest in the firm and it is a flagrant and unsophisticated name-dropping attempt 🤣

Know that networking will not help advance your application in any way, shape or form at the vast majority of firms. I wonder whether it may even be possible that the appearance of trying to unfairly gain an upper hand could damage your chances...but to be honest, it probably never gets taken into account at all. The big London firms have such robust recruitment processes that there is simply no room for a partner to shoulder their way into the recruitment deliberations.

I still hear the occasional anecdotal tale of partners at US firms with small London presences guaranteeing interviews to candidates who have reached out and networked with them in the past. I do not know whether these stories are true, but you can bet that such a practice is rapidly dying out and never occurs at the established firms in the London legal market.

So no, networking is not fundamental at all - but by all means reach out to lawyers if it interests you and if you stand to learn something from them, as @Jessica Booker said

This is such a good answer and brought a smile on my face

 

[WillF]

Hey everyone,

One of the tasks for an AC I have this week is to write a short letter of advice to a fictitious client. I was wondering what everyone thought about formatting - should I write addresses etc like a business letter (even if they don't state to specifically)? If so, is there a document/example someone could share of what it should look like? Thank you all

@Jessica Booker @George Maxwell @James Carrabino any help would be appreciated

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey everyone,

One of the tasks for an AC I have this week is to write a short letter of advice to a fictitious client. I was wondering what everyone thought about formatting - should I write addresses etc like a business letter (even if they don't state to specifically)? If so, is there a document/example someone could share of what it should look like? Thank you all

@Jessica Booker @George Maxwell @James Carrabino any help would be appreciated

If it is explicitly stating a letter and you have all the details provided in the document (like addresses), then format it like a letter.

If the information you have been given doesn't provided any address, then just date the letter and start with Dear......

Something like the following will be appropriate in terms of formatting: LTRletter1.jpg (800×1132) (freshonthenet.co.uk)

 

[WillF]

If it is explicitly stating a letter and you have all the details provided in the document (like addresses), then format it like a letter.

If the information you have been given doesn't provided any address, then just date the letter and start with Dear......

Something like the following will be appropriate in terms of formatting: LTRletter1.jpg (800×1132) (freshonthenet.co.uk)

Great - thank you so much Jessica

 

[LawInTheNorth]

Anyone heard anything from HL recently?

 

[rose0904]

Does anyone have any tips for a Simmons & Simmons AC please?

I wouldn't say you can prep too much for the written exercise and case study other than making sure you're really aware of the time. The interview is a pretty standard competency interview with a few motivational questions thrown in as well, so I'd focus preparations on having competency examples prepped and knowing all your 'whys'.

 

[Asil Ahmad]

For this application question If applicable please state any additional information which you think is relevant to your application or which you think has not been covered adequately in this form?

Is it okay to add more extra curriculum activities and achievements or is this question not for that.

 

[rose0904]

Do you guys think that having mental health as a setback that you overcame is too personal?

I used this as part of an answer for one of my apps and made it to VI (yet to hear back afterwards) so I'd say no! I didn't go into loads of detail but I think it's fine as long as you can focus on what you learnt from it etc rather than the negatives

 

[James Carrabino]

For this application question If applicable please state any additional information which you think is relevant to your application or which you think has not been covered adequately in this form?

Is it okay to add more extra curriculum activities and achievements or is this question not for that.

If there is another question for that and you ran out of space to write it there, then I am not sure that this is the right place to mention it. But if there is no other question relating to extra-curricular activities or achievements then I would feel comfortable mentioning it here!

 

[Asil Ahmad]

I've got two ACs next week and I am starting to get overwhelmed with information. I had an interview last week with a different firm where I was unable to answer a competency question and I didn't answer two commercial questions how I would have liked 🥲, and it's stressing me out that maybe I don't know as much as I should. When do you know if you've done enough? I know you cannot prepare for every single thing, but the more time I have, the more I think I should be doing more competency examples, more firm research, etc 😕

All I will say is good luck you got this and the thing I usually do in situations like these I usually watch a movie or spend the evening going out with family it will help and make you more refreshed then it will make you more prepared for the AC's.

 

[Asil Ahmad]

If there is another question for that and you ran out of space to write it there, then I am not sure that this is the right place to mention it. But if there is no other question relating to extra-curricular activities or achievements then I would feel comfortable mentioning it here!

There was a question about extra curriculum activities and interests so should I discuss more achievements in this question or leave it blank.

 

[James Carrabino]

Hey everyone,

One of the tasks for an AC I have this week is to write a short letter of advice to a fictitious client. I was wondering what everyone thought about formatting - should I write addresses etc like a business letter (even if they don't state to specifically)? If so, is there a document/example someone could share of what it should look like? Thank you all

@Jessica Booker @George Maxwell @James Carrabino any help would be appreciated

I think @Jessica Booker's advice is spot on! You could then sign off the letter unless they tell you not to use your name (e.g. it is a CV-blind interview)

 

[James Carrabino]

There was a question about extra curriculum activities and interests so should I discuss more achievements in this question or leave it blank.

You could discuss achievements, or anything that is not adequately conveyed elsewhere to be honest I would never leave such a question blank - more space to show yourself off is a gift!

 

[Han.louise]

I wouldn't say you can prep too much for the written exercise and case study other than making sure you're really aware of the time. The interview is a pretty standard competency interview with a few motivational questions thrown in as well, so I'd focus preparations on having competency examples prepped and knowing all your 'whys'.

Thank you Rose!! How did you find the case study, is it quite easy to understand? Did they ask you questions about the case study?

 

[James Carrabino]

This is such a good answer and brought a smile on my face

@S87 I appreciate your kind comments and am really happy that you liked my answer 😊

 

[James Carrabino]

I've got two ACs next week and I am starting to get overwhelmed with information. I had an interview last week with a different firm where I was unable to answer a competency question and I didn't answer two commercial questions how I would have liked 🥲, and it's stressing me out that maybe I don't know as much as I should. When do you know if you've done enough? I know you cannot prepare for every single thing, but the more time I have, the more I think I should be doing more competency examples, more firm research, etc 😕

Hi @summer207, I am copying over the same answer that I used to respond to your post in the thread, Keep getting ACs but always feel like I fail them... so that I can respond to your answer here as well and perhaps reach a wider audience in the process


I rarely felt that I had 'done enough', but I also knew when to stop. I only felt unprepared for an interview if I had not thoroughly gone back over all of the following six things in advance of the interview (which only happened once I think, when I had a coursework deadline the night before an interview):

1. First and foremost, I compiled a thorough document dedicated to my research about the firm, including deals, partners, awards etc. and a structured list of bullet points on how to answer 'Why this firm' if it came up. Often I would end up with way too much information and have to be very rigorous about going through and deciding what was a priority to mention and what I would only bring up if the interviewers asked subsequent questions. I would not worry abut having done too little research (unless you really have not done much research at all) because usually the problem is having too much information to draw from.
2. I reminded myself of my other 'general' answers to questions including 'Tell us about yourself and your journey', 'Why did you study your university degree?', 'Why are you interested in law/commercial law?', 'What are your strengths/weaknesses?' and 'What makes you stand out as a candidate?' I always got asked 3/5 of those questions.
3. I went back over which examples I would use for seven key competency questions on teamwork, resilience, ability to take constructive criticism, leadership, integrity, communication and dealing with failure/making a mistake. If I had one example for each of those, I tended to be fine and very rarely found myself searching for an answer on the spot. If the question did not quite map onto one of those competencies, I could often still use the same example and alter my conclusion slightly in order to address the exact question being asked.
4. I prepared two commercial answers - one about a general commercial news story of interest to me and another specifically about a deal that the firm had recently worked on.
5. If we were given the names of our interviewers, then I made sure to know a bit about them and their work, just in case it could fuel any conversation or inform my questions later on.
6. If the interview involved a case study, I always went back over @Jacob Miller's comprehensive case study advice the night before.

If I had completed these first six things then I felt ready. I would feel comfortable going to sleep the night before an interview if this was all that I had done. In whatever extra time I may have happened to have, however, I would do everything else I could think of. This included preparing answers to more questions from this list, thinking about the types of questions I may want to ask the interviewers and generally searching online for any advice about interviewing at the firm that I could find. If I did not have time to do these final things, however, then I would not stress out!

Bearing all of this in mind, know that firms will try to ask you questions that you have not prepared for, and they will almost certainly succeed at least once. So be prepared for that moment where a question comes that makes you think, 'Ok, you win - I simply don't have this one prepared'. Allow yourself to confidently admit to yourself that you did not prepare an answer and then ask for a few seconds to think. Don't beat yourself up over not preparing enough and don't worry if this answer does not end up being your very best answer. Everyone will face this moment at least once in an interview and as long as you don't let it startle you, then I am sure you will think up a decent answer on the spot!

After every interview, I would make a note of all the questions I was asked and what my answer was, whether it was good enough, or whether I should think of a new one for next time. This process of learning and improving after each interview really helped me improve from one to the next!

All of this is to say - don't stress! I am sure that you are extremely well prepared already, but feel free to have a look over these suggestions if you want to be able to put your mind at rest

 

[rose0904]

Thank you Rose!! How did you find the case study, is it quite easy to understand? Did they ask you questions about the case study?

Yeah I'd say it's not difficult in terms of actually understanding the information, it's more that it's difficult because there's so much information to comprehend and collate in a short period of time. You do a presentation first and then your interviewer asks a few questions about the case study. The impression that I got was that the questions were given to them in advance rather than being about what you'd actually said specifically. Hope that helps!