TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[AvniD]

Hi there,

White & Case ask applicants to list there average grade for each year at university, as well as there overall grade as a percentage. My university only counted second and third year grades when calculating our overall grade, with the third year getting more weighting. Should I give this figure or an average of all of my first, second and third year grades?

For reference my grades were much better in my third year, so would ideally use this metric.

@AvniD @Jessica Booker @George Maxwell

You’ll still need to provide an average for your first and second years despite the weighting. Weighting in favour of later years is common in universities. Firms still want to see what your average was in your first year and then again in your second year though, even if they don’t count towards your final grade.

Agree with Jessica! You'll have to calculate these yourself if they weren't provided by universities- make sure you double-check the figures for accuracy and correctness!

 

[James Carrabino]

Just did the Reed Smith VI and want to disappear 🤣😭 I did a lot of preparation in the past 2 days, but still need to practice more. Hopefully, I’ll get better at video interviews with time ☺️

oddly I find I do better in them when I do less prep. I think from now I'll vaguely prepare the why firm, why law, and commercial story/case answers and then just treat it like a conversation.
I stumble over my words when ive over prepared because I end up trying too hard for it to go as I practised lol

I did a VI with a firm that I spent ages preparing for and I thought I had aced it because I had managed to prepare the exact questions that came up (I essentially had a script ready to go in my mind). I got rejected and the firm provided feedback, the main point of which being that my answers sounded scripted.

I applied for another opening at the firm during the same cycle, got to VI again and thought 'Let's just get this over with because clearly all the prep in the world got me nowhere'. I spent a maximum of an hour refreshing my memory on the firm and clicked start - I passed the VI stage.

There were many more 'ums' and 'ers' in my second video interview with the firm for sure, but I could tell that my answers sounded more authentic and conversational. Most importantly, I was really able to use the preparation time not trying to recall everything that I wanted to mention, but rather thinking about how I could make sure I actually answered the exact question being asked. I probably included less information in the process, but I realised that stuffing examples of your research into your answer is not the way to showing your genuine understanding of the topic or motivation for applying to the firm.

Prepare well, but set yourself a deadline for just doing the video interview. Think of your preparation as a foundation of knowledge that will facilitate your confidence in answering any question they ask you, as opposed to a rehearsal of what you will actually be saying when answering.

I hope that all helps

 

[Rob93]

has anyone got any advice on how to stay motivated through this application season!! Finding my motivation slowly fading now 😭

I've found that I'm a lot more on top of things when I approach applications as a constructive process - even if a given application doesn't work out, the act of producing the application has its own value in terms of improving my writing, helping me to refine or better articulate my motivations, etc. No doubt it is still a slog and I still don't like this process, but shifting my outlook so that failed apps don't feel like a waste of time & energy has been very helpful.

It's also important to keep a bit of distance to avoid discouragement when rejections inevitably come through the inbox. At this point I just shrug and say 'oh well, their loss' when PFOs come through, even if I'm quite put out. Gets me fired up to sink my teeth into the next app.

 

[James Carrabino]

has anyone got any advice on how to stay motivated through this application season!! Finding my motivation slowly fading now 😭

I've found that I'm a lot more on top of things when I approach applications as a constructive process - even if a given application doesn't work out, the act of producing the application has its own value in terms of improving my writing, helping me to refine or better articulate my motivations, etc. No doubt it is still a slog and I still don't like this process, but shifting my outlook so that failed apps don't feel like a waste of time & energy has been very helpful.

It's also important to keep a bit of distance to avoid discouragement when rejections inevitably come through the inbox. At this point I just shrug and say 'oh well, their loss' when PFOs come through, even if I'm quite put out. Gets me fired up to sink my teeth into the next app.

@Rob93 this is a winner's mindset!

If you feel that 'this application is a massive waste of time if it is not successful' then that attitude is not conducive to keeping up your motivation. You certainly do not need to enjoy any bit about applying, but I found that there is some sort of addictive rhythm to the research and writing process of a law firm application.

And in the process you learn so much about each firm without realising it! I spent hundreds of hours writing applications, most of which was incredibly well-spent time even with hindsight. I now know a huge amount about the London legal market (I have friends who applied to like two firms and were successful, but are now beginning their TCs and facing an extremely steep learning curve). Also, I really enhanced my commercial awareness just by thinking about commercial topics and how they related to law firms.

If you think about each application as an investment in yourself with the added bonus of a possible job coming out of it, then you will be hungry to keep applying

 

[snailvibez]

Just realised Skadden is rolling... Does submitting the application on the day of the deadline = PFO?

 

[James Carrabino]

Just realised Skadden is rolling... Does submitting the application on the day of the deadline = PFO?

Not at all, go for it!

 

[James Carrabino]

For situational hypothetical interview questions, is it best to incorporate previous examples of where you have dealt with [x] problem? Or just simply stick to what you would do in that hypothetical situation?

If you have an authentic example then by all means mention it, but in most instances where you a asked a hypothetical question, the question is probably something you will not have faced before and is looking for you to think on the spot

 

[James Carrabino]

In an SJT, is it aways better to choose the option where you take initiative than to reach out to a manager or a superior when faced with a difficult task?

If it is simply that the task is difficult then I would say it is always better to first take initiative. If there is something that involves signing off on important documents for a client, then you should probably not do so without consulting the associate/partner in charge. Hope that helps

 

[James Carrabino]

Agree with Jessica! You'll have to calculate these yourself if they weren't provided by universities- make sure you double-check the figures for accuracy and correctness!

Hi there,

White & Case ask applicants to list there average grade for each year at university, as well as there overall grade as a percentage. My university only counted second and third year grades when calculating our overall grade, with the third year getting more weighting. Should I give this figure or an average of all of my first, second and third year grades?

For reference my grades were much better in my third year, so would ideally use this metric.

@AvniD @Jessica Booker @George Maxwell

You’ll still need to provide an average for your first and second years despite the weighting. Weighting in favour of later years is common in universities. Firms still want to see what your average was in your first year and then again in your second year though, even if they don’t count towards your final grade.

@Jessica Booker my understanding of the question @golden99 was asking is whether, in addition to listing the average grade for each year of university separately, they should compute their overall average as a true average of those three numbers, or if they can put down the final grade that the university assigns them as their overall grade?

 

[Asil Ahmad]

I have seen that majority of their trainees attended Oxbridge. Just realised Skadden is rolling... Does submitting the application on the day of the deadline = PFO?

I submitted my application this morning because I thought they are non-rolling as last year. But honestly don't know about your background but I am from a non-russell group university so if I get a telephone interview invite it will be an achievement for me. As Skadden recruit the majority from Oxbridge and from Russell group universities so am not hoping for anything good from them. Also, they said on the open day that they are changing this and moving away from the Oxbridge thing but I doubt it but we will see. Sorry if I went off but the majority of their trainees are from Oxbridge and so this is just my opinion of them. Do not get me wrong I really do like the firm and especially their strength in M&A.

 

[Jessica Booker]

For situational hypothetical interview questions, is it best to incorporate previous examples of where you have dealt with [x] problem? Or just simply stick to what you would do in that hypothetical situation?

You will need to be careful with comparisons. Just because you dealt with a situation in one way in the past doesn’t necessarily mean it might be the right way to approach it again, especially in a different role/organisation. It’s fine to do it if you can find clear similarities and leverage them, but I don’t think it is necessarily to do this as this is a forward looking question, rather than a backward looking one - so your focus needs to be more on how you would deal with this rather than how you may have dealt with something similar in the past.

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker my understanding of the question @golden99 was asking is whether, in addition to listing the average grade for each year of university separately, they should compute their overall average as a true average of those three numbers, or if they can put down the final grade that the university assigns them as their overall grade?

If the firm is asking for each year’s average, then you need to put the average for each year with no weighting calculation.

If they are also asking for an overall grade percentage, then this should be used as per any weighting systems to get your overall grade percentage (calculated as per the weighting for your overall grade classification - this is how your degree classification is calculated and therefore your overall percentage is also calculated that way). However, this only applies if you have graduated.

 

[Jessica Booker]

In an SJT, is it aways better to choose the option where you take initiative than to reach out to a manager or a superior when faced with a difficult task?

Depends on the situation. Read the language of the scenario carefully.

For instance, in a situation where you are completely new to the team, your approach is likely to be very different to if you had been in the team for 3 months.

You also need to think about what is the best outcome for the client. Often getting clarity on what you need to do can be far more efficient than trying to use your own initiative. And considering your time is chargeable, that might be the better thing to do.

But you also need to look at the firm’s values. One that values learning and collaboration is going to have a very different answer of a firm who like independent thinkers/people who use their initiative.

SJTs are not standardised. They are always bespoke to the firm, and so the answer to what you should do is likely to vary between firms.

 

[GS0W]

@Rob93 this is a winner's mindset!

If you feel that 'this application is a massive waste of time if it is not successful' then that attitude is not conducive to keeping up your motivation. You certainly do not need to enjoy any bit about applying, but I found that there is some sort of addictive rhythm to the research and writing process of a law firm application.

And in the process you learn so much about each firm without realising it! I spent hundreds of hours writing applications, most of which was incredibly well-spent time even with hindsight. I now know a huge amount about the London legal market (I have friends who applied to like two firms and were successful, but are now beginning their TCs and facing an extremely steep learning curve). Also, I really enhanced my commercial awareness just by thinking about commercial topics and how they related to law firms.

If you think about each application as an investment in yourself with the added bonus of a possible job coming out of it, then you will be hungry to keep applying

Thank you both very much, that is a really good way to think about things and to be honest I have been approaching it feeling like my failed apps are a waste of time. Also nice to know so many people are going through and feeling the same thing! Thanks all, hope we all secure what we deserve at some point 🤞

 

[bibss]

Are the Mayer Brown tests timed? Can't seem to find this info anywhere :/

 

[GXA123]

Are the Mayer Brown tests timed? Can't seem to find this info anywhere :/

the SJT is not, the verbal is

 

[bibss]

the SJT is not, the verbal is

How much time are we given for the verbal test?

 

[GXA123]

How much time are we given for the verbal test?

you see a timer of how much time has gone, but there is no limit. (I believe it affects your score tho)

 

[BM99]

Just received Mayer Brown test invite as well

 

[jess12]

Hi! Has anyone heard from Gowling, LL or FF?