TCLA General Discussion Thread #2 (2021)

[Jessica Booker]

Hey guys, after signing employment contracts with a firm for a junior legal role, I was offered a TC from another firm. I am going to renege my acceptance with the first firm. I was wondering in what way could this be done best? I assume a telephone call then in writing but how would I word it? I'm just worried the firm would think I've been playing them around and I want to avoid any sort of awkward confrontation.

Yes - best to call and then write an email confirming you are withdrawing your acceptance and will not be proceeding with the role.

I’ll be frank, you are playing them really but you have to own it/deal with it. The firm are going to be relieved you withdrew before you joined rather than shortly after joining, so although they won’t be pleased, it’s a better outcome than them investing time and effort to onboard you/train you up, for you to then leave. They will have been in this situation before many times - they just move on from it. This sounds even more brutal, but they will just find a replacement, so it’s not too much of an issue for them really.

 

[S87]

When did you get the HSF scheme invite ? I only got it yday - still need to make a start on the app

I got two invitations from hsf one for the black aspiring solicitors and this second one. But I haven’t heard back yet

 

[Deleted member 2707]

When an interviewer asks you to talk about a "commercial story", what am I supposed to say really? Just a description of what I've read or how am I able to stand out from the crowd?

 

[Kubed]

When an interviewer asks you to talk about a "commercial story", what am I supposed to say really? Just a description of what I've read or how am I able to stand out from the crowd?

Hey - I don't think a description is enough, what they're looking for is analysis e.g. how does the story fit into long-term trends, what are the implications for different parties/the economy etc, what are the advantages and disadvantages of the transaction/trend/decision, how would it potentially impact law firms...and so on. You have to show that you've really thought about things rather than just read.

 

[Dheepa]

When an interviewer asks you to talk about a "commercial story", what am I supposed to say really? Just a description of what I've read or how am I able to stand out from the crowd?

To echo what Kubed has said, I think the best way to go about this is:

1. Summarise the story you've read briefly and why you find it interesting - The latter part is pretty important imo. Law firms want people that come across as passionate about the commercial world too.
2. Identify the wider commercial trends in the story - I think most stories have at least two or three trends that you can identify and I would encourage you to pick at least two to zero in on. Then consider how these trends are affecting that specific industry/sector as a whole
3. Your opinion - Taking a long term view how do you see this trend changing over the coming months?
4. How will this impact law firms - this is not a hard and fast rule and some people don't include this at all but I personally always did. Think about which practice areas might see an increase or decrease in work, which specific clients at the law firm you're interviewing at will be affected etc.

If you're still a premium member, we actually summarise a commercial story every week on the premium forum and I think the latest one especially gives you a good idea on how to structure your responses for these kinds of questions!

 

[james134]

Was confused and was seeking some opinions for people that have gone through this.

I am about to complete my LLM and move on to doing the LPC at University of Law and was wondering what the difference was between the LPC postgraduate diploma and LPC LLM.

Are there different academic requirements and will law firms prefer one. I was leaning towards simply getting the diploma as I am about to complete one LLM degree already.

Thanks guys

 

[RoughWood]

Was confused and was seeking some opinions for people that have gone through this.

I am about to complete my LLM and move on to doing the LPC at University of Law and was wondering what the difference was between the LPC postgraduate diploma and LPC LLM.

Are there different academic requirements and will law firms prefer one. I was leaning towards simply getting the diploma as I am about to complete one LLM degree already.

Thanks guys

The LLM just adds on some modules so that it fulfills the Masters requirement for student finance. I haven't come across any firms that actually require it, it just makes the LPC more accessible if not firm sponsored

 

[LegalNim]

Really needing some support and motivation here. I got two vacation schemes this year (sort of). Firm 1 (F1) I had a cancelled vacation scheme last year that was moved to spring this year. Firm 2 (F2) was a direct-TC application last year and after the final stage assessment in Spring this year (delayed from last summer due to Covid) they invited me to a vacation scheme instead.
After my vacation scheme with F1 they said I needed to complete a separate application for the TC, which I did and completed the AC and got invited to the final partner interview. Two days before the interview, I fell really unwell but went anyway, cocked it up entirely. I emailed later on to explain that I was unwell (in hospital) but was told I was unsuccessful. F2 had a one day vacation scheme, I sat in on a couple of meetings (wasn't briefed on anything before the meetings) and was sent some documents to read over and had a chat with some trainees - they didn't ask me to do any work or anything. I was told on a few occasions that I wasn't being assessed and that this day was an opportunity for me to get to know the firm (it was entirely online). I was still unwell. At the end of the day, the partner overseeing my "vacation scheme" (who organised which meetings I would be in but I didn't actually speak to them on a call or anything) said in an email that I wasn't being offered a TC and "there's no need for us to speak again". I've just been discharged from hospital now, after two months being ill, and had been told I had encephalitis and intracranial hypertension. I feel like I powered through on these two days for absolutely nothing and spent so much time and effort and energy on their application processes just to have this completely thrown away. Both firms have declined to give me feedback even though I was on the very final stage of the process - one firm I know I messed up (I was barely conscious) but the other is baffling (how could I have messed up shadowing a meeting virtually whilst "not being assessed"?).
I already have a graduate level job and would be taking a pay cut to be a trainee, but I hate my job and have wanted to be a lawyer for as long as I can remember. I feel like every time I get anywhere, it gets fucked up at the last moment - this is my third cycle (in my first cycle I was hospitalised November-June and really unwell, I fell over in a final stage interview and messed that up. In my second cycle, I secured two vacation schemes, one was cancelled entirely and one was postponed to this year. And this year, I had two strong leads and messed it all up at the last minute). The thought of starting the whole thing again next cycle is killing me - how long do I stick it out before realising this is never going to happen for me?

 

[Deleted member 2707]

Hey - I don't think a description is enough, what they're looking for is analysis e.g. how does the story fit into long-term trends, what are the implications for different parties/the economy etc, what are the advantages and disadvantages of the transaction/trend/decision, how would it potentially impact law firms...and so on. You have to show that you've really thought about things rather than just read.

To echo what Kubed has said, I think the best way to go about this is:

1. Summarise the story you've read briefly and why you find it interesting - The latter part is pretty important imo. Law firms want people that come across as passionate about the commercial world too.
2. Identify the wider commercial trends in the story - I think most stories have at least two or three trends that you can identify and I would encourage you to pick at least two to zero in on. Then consider how these trends are affecting that specific industry/sector as a whole
3. Your opinion - Taking a long term view how do you see this trend changing over the coming months?
4. How will this impact law firms - this is not a hard and fast rule and some people don't include this at all but I personally always did. Think about which practice areas might see an increase or decrease in work, which specific clients at the law firm you're interviewing at will be affected etc.

If you're still a premium member, we actually summarise a commercial story every week on the premium forum and I think the latest one especially gives you a good idea on how to structure your responses for these kinds of questions!

Thank you guys! So would it be right if I said something like:

"I've been following the 'meme-stock' craze that started early this year, zoning in on the AMC stock. This was when retail investors boosted up the stock price of the soon-to-be-bust cinema franchise. This was short-lived though as AMC's share price plunged in June; despite the increased revenue and profits. The AMC situation underscored the rise of retail investors and their increased power within the stock market. It was a novel situation, with institutional investors having had such a tight hold on to the market for so long. However, this was not bound to last. The demise of AMC is reflected in other so called 'meme stocks'- Gamestop also observed a lost in the recent quarter and Robinhood, who recently had a failed IPO, have had the 'meme stock' labelled tacked onto it. In the long term, it is unlikely that meme stocks will thrive or even survive. Institutional investors are still very powerful and retain their larger sway on the market. However, it is refreshing to see laymen enter the stock market, despite their failed attempts at challenging the incumbents."

Very bad summary/shallow analysis since I have had such a long day but would such a structure be fine?

 

[W]

Thank you guys! So would it be right if I said something like:

"I've been following the 'meme-stock' craze that started early this year, zoning in on the AMC stock. This was when retail investors boosted up the stock price of the soon-to-be-bust cinema franchise. This was short-lived though as AMC's share price plunged in June; despite the increased revenue and profits. The AMC situation underscored the rise of retail investors and their increased power within the stock market. It was a novel situation, with institutional investors having had such a tight hold on to the market for so long. However, this was not bound to last. The demise of AMC is reflected in other so called 'meme stocks'- Gamestop also observed a lost in the recent quarter and Robinhood, who recently had a failed IPO, have had the 'meme stock' labelled tacked onto it. In the long term, it is unlikely that meme stocks will thrive or even survive. Institutional investors are still very powerful and retain their larger sway on the market. However, it is refreshing to see laymen enter the stock market, despite their failed attempts at challenging the incumbents."

Very bad summary/shallow analysis since I have had such a long day but would such a structure be fine?

Try also fit in how the deal impacts the firm you’re interviewing at too if possible

 

[Alex3107]

Hello!!

Just a quick note to say that after a horrendously busy year, I finish this cycle with one rejection post VS and a TC offer from Dentons, my top choice! I am not even ashamed to admit how many hours I spent on this forum rather than studying, and everyone’s help has been so so important in this journey. Just wanna say a huge thank you to everyone here, and if I can be of any help to anyone please DM me!

Have a fantastic summer everyone!!!🥳🥳

 

[Jessica Booker]

When an interviewer asks you to talk about a "commercial story", what am I supposed to say really? Just a description of what I've read or how am I able to stand out from the crowd?

In addition to the great comments given already, start by explaining very briefly why you choose that story over the millions you could have chosen. It will explain something about you and your interests, which is a vital part of the assessment to a qusafiom like this.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hello!!

Just a quick note to say that after a horrendously busy year, I finish this cycle with one rejection post VS and a TC offer from Dentons, my top choice! I am not even ashamed to admit how many hours I spent on this forum rather than studying, and everyone’s help has been so so important in this journey. Just wanna say a huge thank you to everyone here, and if I can be of any help to anyone please DM me!

Have a fantastic summer everyone!!!🥳🥳

Amazing news - congratulations!

 

[RP]

Hi everyone!
Although I wasn’t successful for the firm in which I completed a VS for the TC, the feedback I received was extremely positive - as a result, I have been offered the opportunity to paralegal at the firm and to apply internally for the TC next year. However, as a non law graduate, I have just received my offer for the full time GDL, which I would be unable to complete in the full time paralegal role.
I could really do with some advice if anyone has been in a similar situation - I know it’s the last year to study the GDL, which I would like to study, but I feel like paralegalling at the firm which I loved my VS in is such an amazing opportunity to get legal experience and the possibility of a TC next year.
Any advice would be appreciated !!!!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi everyone!
Although I wasn’t successful for the firm in which I completed a VS for the TC, the feedback I received was extremely positive - as a result, I have been offered the opportunity to paralegal at the firm and to apply internally for the TC next year. However, as a non law graduate, I have just received my offer for the full time GDL, which I would be unable to complete in the full time paralegal role.
I could really do with some advice if anyone has been in a similar situation - I know it’s the last year to study the GDL, which I would like to study, but I feel like paralegalling at the firm which I loved my VS in is such an amazing opportunity to get legal experience and the possibility of a TC next year.
Any advice would be appreciated !!!!

I’d go with the job every time. Doing the GDL could be a waste of time if the firm converts to the SQE anyway.

 

[RP]

I’d go with the job every time. Doing the GDL could be a waste of time if the firm converts to the SQE anyway.

Thanks Jessica - the firm has told me that they’re going to move to the SQE for the 2024 intake, but I was just a bit worried about the process as a non law grad with the SQE prep courses and how they would be funded/completed thank you!!

 

[deckoking123]

Does anyone know if you could renege a TC offer even if the firm pays for your GDL ?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks Jessica - the firm has told me that they’re going to move to the SQE for the 2024 intake, but I was just a bit worried about the process as a non law grad with the SQE prep courses and how they would be funded/completed thank you!!

Speak the firm about that - but it sounds like you would be only considered for a 2024 TC anyway if you did choose to do the GDL this year and reapplied.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Does anyone know if you could renege a TC offer even if the firm pays for your GDL ?

If you can pay them back all the course costs and maintenance grant (and potentially fairly immediately), then yes, you could.

 

[Hele25]

Hiiiii PFO from S+M, did kind of expect it just because it was my dream firm (always better to expect rejection in my case, that way I get on and persevere more quickly).
anyway, I applied for the direct TC, and it says online that if I apply again it is unlikely to be accepted/positive unless there has been major changes to my application.
now, I have two questions -
1. What exactly do they mean by major changes? - a job, masters, more experience, or just a better application?
2. Will I be able to apply for the VS? Or will I not be able to without this ‘significant improvement’? I didn’t apply for the VS this year as I wasn’t in the right mindset and wanted to improve my app for the TC instead).
Thanks so much!!!