TCLA General Discussion Thread #2 (2021)

[Hele25]

had to share- A friend had their first ever TC partner interview Thursday and ended up in a very very heated debate about football. Literally no idea how the subject even came up, or what they were taking about/the context, but they offered them the TC before the end of the day yesterday. 😂😂😂

 

[Jessica Booker]

had to share- A friend had their first ever TC partner interview Thursday and ended up in a very very heated debate about football. Literally no idea how the subject even came up, or what they were taking about/the context, but they offered them the TC before the end of the day yesterday. 😂😂😂

I once observed a heated debate about which band was the better rock band that took over an interview.

The other interviewer who sparked the conversation looked at my disapproving look after it was going on for sometime and said “I would talk about this more with you, but I sense I should shut up and ask you some proper questions”.

 

[esmara123]

Disclaimer: I know I am in an extremely fortunate position, and I do not want to trigger anyone's anxiety with my question.

I am a second-year law student, and I managed to secure one vacation scheme after over 20 applications this cycle. I had the vacation scheme (SC firm), and I received a TC offer following the vacation scheme.

However, there is a part of me that feels unfulfilled, and feels like the firm is not right for me. Although I enjoyed my time in the firm and everyone was very nice, due to my limited experience before this vacation scheme, I was slightly confused as to whether I like the firm, or whether I just enjoy the work of a trainee/the solicitor path. I had my eyes set on MC firms and some other global elite firms as well, and I feel that their breadth of experience in different practice areas would be better for me. Also, I feel that other firms are more international, which is something I value a lot. Additionally, I am also quite keen on doing an LLM after my LLB, which could potentially give me another year to apply again.

Once again, I feel quite fortunate to be in this position. However, something still doesn't sit right with me. I would be more than thankful if anyone has any advice as to what to do in this situation.

 

[Andrew M]

Disclaimer: I know I am in an extremely fortunate position, and I do not want to trigger anyone's anxiety with my question.

I am a second-year law student, and I managed to secure one vacation scheme after over 20 applications this cycle. I had the vacation scheme (SC firm), and I received a TC offer following the vacation scheme.

However, there is a part of me that feels unfulfilled, and feels like the firm is not right for me. Although I enjoyed my time in the firm and everyone was very nice, due to my limited experience before this vacation scheme, I was slightly confused as to whether I like the firm, or whether I just enjoy the work of a trainee/the solicitor path. I had my eyes set on MC firms and some other global elite firms as well, and I feel that their breadth of experience in different practice areas would be better for me. Also, I feel that other firms are more international, which is something I value a lot. Additionally, I am also quite keen on doing an LLM after my LLB, which could potentially give me another year to apply again.

Once again, I feel quite fortunate to be in this position. However, something still doesn't sit right with me. I would be more than thankful if anyone has any advice as to what to do in this situation.

I'm a firm believer in trusting your instincts, when it comes to stuff like this. Would you perhaps be able to apply to other firms next year and, if you are successful and like another firm better, renege on your offer? I'm sure that happens fairly often with second year law students. Provided that the firm you have accepted an offer with doesn't make arrangements for your LPC/SQE, I can't see any issues with that. I'm sure they'll find someone else to fulfil your place!

 

[esmara123]

I'm a firm believer in trusting your instincts, when it comes to stuff like this. Would you perhaps be able to apply to other firms next year and, if you are successful and like another firm better, renege on your offer? I'm sure that happens fairly often with second year law students. Provided that the firm you have accepted an offer with doesn't make arrangements for your LPC/SQE, I can't see any issues with that. I'm sure they'll find someone else to fulfil your place!

Thank you very much for your input!

I have not yet accepted the offer, and I have a few weeks before I have to give them my decision. I would be able to apply to other firms, as I am only a second year LLB student. I thought about accepting and reneging an offer, but doesn't that look very bad for both the firm and potential firms in the future? Would other firms even be willing to consider my application if I disclose that I have accepted an offer, or should I just not disclose it?

I am aware that the firm is still conducting TC interviews, and I wouldn't want to take someone's place.

 

[Andrew M]

Thank you very much for your input!

I have not yet accepted the offer, and I have a few weeks before I have to give them my decision. I would be able to apply to other firms, as I am only a second year LLB student. I thought about accepting and reneging an offer, but doesn't that look very bad for both the firm and potential firms in the future? Would other firms even be willing to consider my application if I disclose that I have accepted an offer, or should I just not disclose it?

I am aware that the firm is still conducting TC interviews, and I wouldn't want to take someone's place.

From what I gather, this happens often. Of course it won't endear you to the firm you renege on but it won't affect your career beyond that. Ultimately, it's just you doing what is in your own best interests. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you very much for your input!

I have not yet accepted the offer, and I have a few weeks before I have to give them my decision. I would be able to apply to other firms, as I am only a second year LLB student. I thought about accepting and reneging an offer, but doesn't that look very bad for both the firm and potential firms in the future? Would other firms even be willing to consider my application if I disclose that I have accepted an offer, or should I just not disclose it?

I am aware that the firm is still conducting TC interviews, and I wouldn't want to take someone's place.

You’d only have to disclose it if asked. I don’t think many firms ask outright if you have accepted a TC elsewhere either at application stage or at interview.

 

[Georgina Evans]

Not sure if this is the best place for this post but -

I have to complete a moot as part of an upcoming vacation scheme and am wondering if anyone has any tips or advice on how to do well? I didn't take part in any moots during university and already feel behind with how to prepare etc.

 

[Hele25]

PFO from Dentons- only 2 firms left to hear back from now and that’s my app cycle done without any major successes!
It’s only my first a application cycle though, and while I had hoped for a better outcome, this year has been so competitive (not that it isn’t always) and I’ve learnt SO MUCH (especially from TCLA)! I’ll just come back stronger, more determined and better informed for the next round of VS apps And hopefully succeed 😂😂😂💀

 

[KerC14]

I'm looking at applying to Kennedys, I'm a non law grad so does that mean I could apply to either the training contract 2023 or the SQE programme? 🙈

 

[Jaysen]

Disclaimer: I know I am in an extremely fortunate position, and I do not want to trigger anyone's anxiety with my question.

I am a second-year law student, and I managed to secure one vacation scheme after over 20 applications this cycle. I had the vacation scheme (SC firm), and I received a TC offer following the vacation scheme.

However, there is a part of me that feels unfulfilled, and feels like the firm is not right for me. Although I enjoyed my time in the firm and everyone was very nice, due to my limited experience before this vacation scheme, I was slightly confused as to whether I like the firm, or whether I just enjoy the work of a trainee/the solicitor path. I had my eyes set on MC firms and some other global elite firms as well, and I feel that their breadth of experience in different practice areas would be better for me. Also, I feel that other firms are more international, which is something I value a lot. Additionally, I am also quite keen on doing an LLM after my LLB, which could potentially give me another year to apply again.

Once again, I feel quite fortunate to be in this position. However, something still doesn't sit right with me. I would be more than thankful if anyone has any advice as to what to do in this situation.

I think it's great that you are questioning whether the TC offer is right for you. Am in agreement with Andrew here - I'd try to explore why you feel those thoughts about this particular firm (is it down to notions of prestige? Do you feel you could secure a training contract with an even more preferable firm next year? Do you dislike something about the firm?).

If you just want to get to know the firm better, you may want to speak to the firm and explore opportunities once people are back in the office. Assuming this was a virtual vacation scheme, you may have more certainty if you can be there in person to meet the lawyers.

Equally, it sounds to me like there are other factors at play here and you may benefit from staying in the process and exploring more firms. If you do decide to accept and renege, it'll burn the bridge with that particular firm, but it shouldn't have any impact on other firms.

 

[Etudierlaw2022]

Not sure if this is the best place for this post but -

I have to complete a moot as part of an upcoming vacation scheme and am wondering if anyone has any tips or advice on how to do well? I didn't take part in any moots during university and already feel behind with how to prepare etc.

I was mooting officer at my uni, so hopefully my advice will be of use!

Research is a really key component of a good argument. Take textbooks out if you have access to them on the area of law and make sure you know what the leading precedent is. When picking cases to support your argument, it's also important that you bear in mind what potential cases the other side may utilise to bolster their argument - bearing this in mind will help you to pick points out from the law that can pre-empt their potential arguments, making your side stronger! Try to find cases decided in higher courts - Supreme Court cases are king. It's okay if there aren't any, but the higher the court, the more persuasive the law.

As a general rule, don't pick cases from other jurisdictions - unless it's a hypothetical problem with an international element. You can use cases from Scotland, NI, Wales if you can defend why they still bear relevance in England.

Do you have to prepare a skeleton argument? Keep it as concise and uncluttered as possible. You will want to introduce your submissions (aka your arguments) very briefly to the judge before walking them through your arguments. If you have time at the end, you then briefly recap the submissions you made.

There are also quite a few rules on etiquette that will make you seem more credible. (When you introduce yourself, say "May it please the court, I appear as (senior/junior counsel) for the (appellant/respondent), arguing the (first/second ground of appeal) This video is great!

 

[Jacob Miller]

Why is it critical to ensure diversity and inclusion in the legal profession? What are the risks of not having or achieving this?

What approach can be taken to answer this question as I don't want to be cliche or too generic like I know the obvious reasons.

What initial thoughts do you have here? If you share some of your base ideas, we can maybe talk through them and see whether you feel you're on the right track.

I would remind you that, often, simple is best - with this sort of question, many of the base-level reasons are the same (and so it can be hard to be 'different' in that regard) but where you can stand out is, in my opinion, by providing a more nuanced analysis than a simple cause-and-effect type answer.

 

[Jacob Miller]

Not sure if this is the best place for this post but -

I have to complete a moot as part of an upcoming vacation scheme and am wondering if anyone has any tips or advice on how to do well? I didn't take part in any moots during university and already feel behind with how to prepare etc.

I did a bit of mooting back in the day, albeit I haven't got wigged up for a few years. @aspiringjd2021 has given some excellent advice here, all of which I agree with. In addition, I would consider a few things:

• Read the scenario carefully. This is a test, and I can virtually guarantee there will be specific things in it which are designed to trip you up, test your research skills, and be generally challenging/ problematic. You're setting yourself up for failure if you don't take great care in reading the scenario closely and trying to pick up on every detail possible. I am assuming you have a relatively decent amount of prep time here - obviously, if it's case study style and you've only got an hour or so, this will be more challenging, but the tricks etc are more likely to be scaled to the timeframe a bit more in that case.
• Plan for interruptions in your speech. You never know quite how many times you're going to be interrupted. Similarly, you don't know how long each interruption will take, nor do you know how long it will take you to respond. In that regard, you need to account in your speech for the possibilities that interruptions could take a very long time, or a very short time. Be aware of this and prep accordingly.
  • If I were in your position, I would write a base speech which runs a good bit short of your allocated time to account for interruptions, but then have bits in that speech which you can add in if it's running way under time and also bits you can cut out if you're running over time. I always did this and it served me well, but I'd caveat it by saying that, by the time I started mooting in Uni, I had competed in well over 100 debates and public speaking competitions through school on a national level and I was very comfortable with presenting and speaking. This made it much easier for me to adjust my speech on the spot as I knew to within a few seconds how long each section of a speech would take me. If you're not as familiar with yourself in the context of public speaking (i.e. your pace, words per minute etc) then this could be quite risky so I would proceed with caution in this regard. It's probably one of the hardest things to do in the context of timed speaking, so don't get too caught up if you feel it's maybe a bit much to take on.
• Advocate. I'll pre-emptively qualify this by saying that your advocacy skills are not going to be at the forefront of the assessment - other things (content, argument etc) will be more important. Nevertheless, remember that, in a moot, you have to advocate for your client and absolutely sell your case to the judge. Speak with confidence and conviction, make eye contact (where possible, this is obviously v hard on a screen), don't have your head buried in a written speech, emphasise important parts with pace and tone... pull out every technique in the book to captivate your audience because, if they enjoy what they hear and see, they will be much more inclined to give you strong marks across the board.

 

[finalyear]

Hi! Could I please ask a question about reneging? How do I renege a TC offer at firm A that I have already accepted?

I am reneging because I wish to accept TC at firm B, but I am just wondering if I should tell the firm A HR exactly that. Or should I just say something along the lines of "personal reasons"? Which one would be slightly better from the HR's perspective?

I feel so lucky to have had an offer from firm A and I really hope to control the damage as much as possible. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks so much!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi! Could I please ask a question about reneging? How do I renege a TC offer at firm A that I have already accepted?

I am reneging because I wish to accept TC at firm B, but I am just wondering if I should tell the firm A HR exactly that. Or should I just say something along the lines of "personal reasons"? Which one would be slightly better from the HR's perspective?

I feel so lucky to have had an offer from firm A and I really hope to control the damage as much as possible. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks so much!

If you say personal reasons, the firm is potentially going to ask you whether it feasible for you to defer instead.

Just be honest - you are going into a career where integrity is vital.

The firm won’t really care what your reason is for reneging, they will just be disappointed that you are. Unfortunately this is part of the process and some damage will be made, but that’s ultimately a price you pay for securing multiple offers and having to choose one over the other. You have to let someone down.

As a matter of politeness, call the firm and confirm you will be reneging the offer previously given as you have another TC offer with another firm. Be prepared for them to ask you what firm it is. Then follow up in writing (Via email) to confirm you are reneging.

 

[Jacob Miller]

Hi! Could I please ask a question about reneging? How do I renege a TC offer at firm A that I have already accepted?

I am reneging because I wish to accept TC at firm B, but I am just wondering if I should tell the firm A HR exactly that. Or should I just say something along the lines of "personal reasons"? Which one would be slightly better from the HR's perspective?

I feel so lucky to have had an offer from firm A and I really hope to control the damage as much as possible. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks so much!

Honesty is the best policy. If you're reneging it'll ultimately burn the bridge irrespective so just be straight down the line about it.

 

[liverpoollawyer]

After 3 years of applications and god knows how many rejections I finally received a TC offer yesterday with the possibility of starting next month instead of 2023!! 🥳🥳🥳
Absolutely delighted. Thank you to everyone on this forum for being so welcoming and genuinely invested in our success, I am so happy I found TCLA!

 

[Andrew M]

Just received a TC offer for Mills & Reeve! I'm in shock, it hasn't quite sunk in yet. I opened the email firmly believing it was a no

 

[Kubed]

I realise I am in a fortunate position so apologies if this comes across insensitively, but I've been offered a TC and I'm waiting to hear back from another firm that I recently completed a vac scheme at. The issue is that the second firm won't get back to me until early August, exactly the time when I need to get back to first firm by. I may not get an offer for the second firm so all this could be irrelevant, but when should I be letting the second firm know I have another offer? I don't want to be in the position where I lose the first offer while waiting for the second firm to get back to me.