TCLA General Discussion Thread #2 (2021)

[Jessica Booker]

Can’t believe I’m writing this but I have just received another TC offer from the firm I reached the final stages with last year but was unsuccessful. I was really close to giving up this year after three years of applications and never imagined I’d get one offer never mind two. In the least cheesy way possible, anyone who is feeling disheartened this cycle just don’t give up hope just yet! It really does just take one ‘yes’ and your applications and interview technique will only get better.

Amazing news to end the week with! Congratualtions 🥳

 

[corplaw0702]

If I had mitigating circumstances, but ended up with good results... do I write that I had mitigating circumstances?

 

[N.9]

If I had mitigating circumstances, but ended up with good results... do I write that I had mitigating circumstances?

Hi there. I once asked this exact question at BPP career's service and the lady said, in no uncertain terms, that I should not bother disclosing them (but it may depend exactly on what the circumstances are and whether they will persist or re-appear in the future - so take with a pinch of salt)

 

[Jessica Booker]

If I had mitigating circumstances, but ended up with good results... do I write that I had mitigating circumstances?

You don’t need to declare them. It’s only really when there is a blip in your academics/achievements that it is worthwhile mentioning them.

For instance, if you do declare them, but your previous or subsequent academics/achievements are of a similar standard, then there is a question as to whether the circumstances really impacted you.

If they are still “good” results, but clearly not as good as previous/subsequent academics, then it could be relevant to mention them, as this explains the blip but still shows you can perform to a good level.

 

[S87]

I got my rejection for a TC yesterday after making it to the last stage (interview). I asked for feedback and they said they are unable to provide me any. All they said was I did really well.

#freefeedback

 

[Jessica Booker]

I got my rejection for a TC yesterday after making it to the last stage (interview). I asked for feedback and they said they are unable to provide me any. All they said was I did really well.

That’s not really appropriate and says something about the firm if they are unwilling to provide feedback, given it is the last stage.

You could put in a SAR if you felt the feedback would be beneficial to you, and could say to the firm that you would want to explore the possibility of feedback being given before you put a SAR in.

But many people will just give up and move on (and I can understand why) and probably be put off ever considering the firm ever again.

 

[h2020]

That’s not really appropriate and says something about the firm if they are unwilling to provide feedback, given it is the last stage.

You could put in a SAR if you felt the feedback would be beneficial to you, and could say to the firm that you would want to explore the possibility of feedback being given before you put a SAR in.

But many people will just give up and move on (and I can understand why) and probably be put off ever considering the firm ever again.

Thanks Jessica but I've given up now. There are plenty of firms.

 

[Daniel Boden]

Just found out I’ve been accepted on Strive’s supernova programme! Has anyone been on it before? Really looking forward to getting started but would love to hear other people’s experiences

I've been one of the mentors on that programme this past year and I can safely say that the resources available are brilliant! One bit of advice, make sure you engage with your mentor and get the most out of the programme you can - you've done really well to get on it as it's very competitive so well done

 

[Lumree]

I've been one of the mentors on that programme this past year and I can safely say that the resources available are brilliant! One bit of advice, make sure you engage with your mentor and get the most out of the programme you can - you've done really well to get on it as it's very competitive so well done

Amazing - thanks Dan! Hopefully see you at some of the future events then!

 

[S87]

Guys,

May ask you something? I want to write a para where I convince a firm to invest in a new practice area.
How should I structure it?

 

[W]

Does anyone what the percentage mark is for the WG for FF?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Does anyone what the percentage mark is for the WG for FF?

It won’t be a percentage mark but a percentile ranking, meaning your result is benchmarked against others and given a ranking.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Guys,

May ask you something? I want to write a para where I convince a firm to invest in a new practice area.
How should I structure it?

I don’t think there is a set structure for this, just things to cover:

- Making it clear which area you have identified
- Explaining why you think it is worth the investment (clearly must be a growing area or new opportunity)
- Explain any benefits it may have to wider areas of the firm (eg referral work to other departments/links to other practice areas?)
- Think about how it may be an opportunity currently not represented by competitors, or how you would make sure you would differentiate the firm from competitors if they do shave a strength in the same area.

 

[W]

It won’t be a percentage mark but a percentile ranking, meaning your result is benchmarked against others and given a ranking.

I see but generally should you aim when doing practice tests to get between 80 - 90%?

 

[ScrappyDoo]

I see but generally should you aim when doing practice tests to get between 80 - 90%?

Hey! When did you get the FF WG link?

 

[S87]

I don’t think there is a set structure for this, just things to cover:

- Making it clear which area you have identified
- Explaining why you think it is worth the investment (clearly must be a growing area or new opportunity)
- Explain any benefits it may have to wider areas of the firm (eg referral work to other departments/links to other practice areas?)
- Think about how it may be an opportunity currently not represented by competitors, or how you would make sure you would differentiate the firm from competitors if they do shave a strength in the same area.

Thank you so much for this!

 

[SamTam99]

I see but generally should you aim when doing practice tests to get between 80 - 90%?

It’s difficult to say as it’s ranked on percentile not percentage. So it’s completely dependent on how you do in relation to the other candidates taking the test

 

[Jacob Miller]

Guys,

May ask you something? I want to write a para where I convince a firm to invest in a new practice area.
How should I structure it?

I would agree with Jess' advice here - the only thing I would add is a little reminder to try and keep it fairly straightforward in style and structure to allow nuance in your analysis and reasoning to shine through without getting lost in an answer that isn't direct enough!

Other than that, I think all the usual rules about clear signposting, concise writing, with an emphasis on your logic and reasoning are those which apply here much in the usual way. As with most of these questions, there isn't a fixed right answer in terms of the place or sector you recommend so 99% of whats being assessed is your ability to construct the answer, argue your case and analyse the issue with reference to the necessary commercial concerns and understanding law firms as businesses.

 

[Kola]

Hi guys, please don’t hate me for asking this… which do I choose for TC. Freshfields or Debevoise?!?

What a fantastic, but also rather difficult, position to be in. If it were me, here are some of the things that I would personally consider.

1. Salary: Money wise, you will be better of at Debevoise during your training contract, with you making - at an absolute minimum - £9k more. I say at a minimum because Debevoise may give a larger 'grant' as a sort of sign on bonus, but your contract should have all the details so you will be better poised to make a more sophisticated comparison. If you see yourself in commercial law after your TC, the difference only grows, with your NQ salary being £43k higher than your FBD's counterparts, and your bonus' also being much larger than (correct me if I am wrong) FF's discretionary £1k bonus. That being said, it is also worth considering that the difference is reduced post-tax and there are rumours that FBD could be increasing their salary if the current pay war escalates.

2. Interests: If you're someone who is interested in PE or Funds, its hard to go wrong with Debevoise. On the other hand, FBD's department variety absolutely dwarfs anything that Debevoise could offer you, so if you are interested in more niche areas from Shipping to Art & Cultural property law, Debevoise certainly isn't the place to go.

3. Environment, Culture and Working Hours: Working hour wise, you will probably be working the same-ish at both firms, which is to say a lot, however, US firms have a tendency (given their PE clientele) to demand that their lawyers occasionally work during the weekends etc. Essentially, from what I have heard, at US firms, times of the day and days of the year which are generally considered sacrosanct are less respected. Culture wise you can go digging on ROF to read about the personal experiences of lawyers at both firms, which to be quite frank, don't seem all that great. Freshfields has not scored amazingly amongst ROF polls, which their culture being seen by the people who work there as below average, and Debevoise is even worse, with it ranking as the second worst firm (culture wise) according to a ROF poll about a year ago (if my memory serves me right). There have also been various comments on Legal Cheek and Fishbowl praising both firms for their culture that I have come across, but ultimately it is hard to discern such things from an outside perspective and you're best bet is to find an honest insider to share their experiences with you (easier said than done, I know).

Other things to consider would be (i) size - would you prefer working with a lot of people, or not many at all, (ii) responsibility and mentorship and (iii) pressure - would you prefer that the spotlight be on you at all times.

Either way, there isn't really a wrong choice since both are great firms and you will likely thrive at both. Just comes down to personal preference and long term goals.

 

[LawGrad2019]

I have a question re doing the LPC v LPC LLM. The firm sponsoring me has said I can choose whichever I like. The LPC LLM takes longer to complete and I assume means more study time, so I'm just wondering whether there's any point in doing it? I was under the impression that the additional modules are there purely for funding, which obviously isn't an issue for me. If there's no other real benefit, I think I may as well do the straight LPC and use the extra time for work/volunteering.

To add a different view - I loved the ULaw LPC LLM as I got to do a fourth additional elective in addition to the research report. I got to try out an area I wouldn't have otherwise explored and it will hopefully make me a more well-rounded future trainee.

It's just a case of whether you want to increase the pressure slightly in the second stage with an additional module - although I found the second stage more manageable than the first, even with the extra elective.