TCLA Direct Training Contract Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[Jessica Booker]

Okay thank you very much for the detailed explanation. Chances look way more slimmer now. Somewhere between 12-25%. My interview wasn’t the greatest, so I am not going to get my hopes high.

25% is actually pretty good if you are looking at it that way (which I don’t think you should). Not everything is equal or constant in a recruitment process and so you haven’t got exactly the same chances as the next person.

 

[psr23]

Has anyone applied to Rosenblatt? The firm's website says applications are closed, but lawcareers.net says the deadline is 30 April...

 

[James Carrabino]

Thank you.

@NS95 I think it is the best possible explanation for your friends' situations. A phone call means something more than a simple rejection. That said, it seems a bit odd to not mention an offer if having received one.

It is impossible to read into things too much - I know some firms call people with rejections post-AC. Every firm has a different approach!

 

[James Carrabino]

Hey guys is the deadline for Ashurst direct TC 23:59 tomorrow.. someone in the other forum said they closed midday for their VS?

Hiya, it's a bit unclear if 23:59 is the deadline... all I know is that Ashurst likes to close apps at like noon or 4pm for their VS so I'd try and get it in asap

I remember last year it was 1pm - their deadline can be weird! Usually I would assume 23:59, however, if it is not very clear from the website.

And whilst I may have submitted some apps close to 23:59... you can bet I had the apps for my top-choice firms submitted well in advance!

 

[James Carrabino]

Does anyone have any advice as to what portion of words should be allocated for the 'how does this relate to Ashurst' section for Ashurst's question 'Please tell us about a recent news article that interests you and how this relates to Ashurst? (300 words max) '.

So far I've drafted an answer which only relates it back to Ashurst at the end, but i've thoroughly explained why this said article interests me.

@syw you can find @George Maxwell's thoughts on this exact question here and my slightly different thoughts here and then should feel free to choose which approach best suits you

 

[James Carrabino]

In my third cycle of applications, I have finally secured a Training Contract!
Interestingly, this was my first ever direct TC application and I have never secured a vac scheme (take what you will from that).

I want to thank the entire TCLA team for their invaluable advice and guidance along this journey, and obviously @Jaysen for creating this amazing community. Big shout out to @George Maxwell @James Carrabino and @Jessica Booker for believing in me and replying to my messages on such short notice!

For those seeking a TC, the biggest piece of advice I got (from George or James) was to change my mentality.

• You have to believe it is only a question of "when" and not "if" you get a training contract.
• If you don't believe in yourself, how can you expect anyone else to?
• Please stop comparing yourself to others and honestly, I don't think LinkedIn helps as it is a constant reminder of all our connections getting TC's.

Secondly, TCLA Premium is so worth it.

• Even if it is just for a few months (especially the month before your AC).
• I have gained so much value from those courses, it has been such a valuable investment (we've all wasted more money on dumber things ie alcohol).
• Since taking the Watson Glaser course by Joe Mallet, I have passed all 5/5 Watson Glaser exams.

Finally, I do believe that you really need to pick a few firms and apply to those only.

• I think most people are drawn to the big international firms for the reputation, money, status or simply because everyone else is applying to them.
• But when you sit down and think about what truly matters to you, then you can probably narrow that list down to less than 10.
• For example, I realised I actually care about my mental health and work-life balance (having tried to balance a full-time job with a part-time masters).
• Hence why I stopped applying to magic circle firms...
• Quality > Quantity (despite the numbers game argument, there is no way you can produce more than 20 good quality apps in any given cycle that you genuinely care about).
• Also when researching, it is important to realise that all firms regurtitate the same bs (great culture, great client contact, lots of responsibility at an early stage). In reality, these are all just sales pitches. For example: great client contact = asking the client if he/she has received the document you sent him

Good luck to everyone and remember, "Mistakes don’t mean failure. Mistakes are a sign that you are trying something new. You make mistakes; mistakes don’t make you."

@F1_Legal massive congratulations for this achievement!! You have been such a great member of this community and it is wonderful to know that your commitment and hard work paid off!

I am incredibly flattered that you found my advice useful 😊 I should also mention how excellent your reflections on your own journey are and how grateful we are that you shared them! It is a story like yours that will motivate countless future applicants and make them realise that they, too, will have their day

Congratulations again and make sure you take the time to celebrate!

 

[James Carrabino]

Hey! I was wondering if anyone knew which firms have a good chance of taking direct TC intakes? My apologies if this question has been answered before, but it would be really helpful to me.

Hi @PM2021, I am really glad to hear that you are considering the direct TC route - @AvniD has created an excellent thread here about things to consider when going down that route!

I think that the closest thing to what you are looking for is a list of firms with an indication of how likely they are to make a significant number of direct TC offers in a given cycle. It is from last cycle but I believe it remains broadly accurate and you can find it here

There is also another thread by @Adrian_S compiling firms which allow you to apply for their direct TC after being making an unsuccessful vac scheme application in the same cycle.

I hope that this is all helpful!

 

[James Carrabino]

Can you remember the date by any chance. Also how many people were in your interview btw? See there were 3 in my interview. So from Feb 28th to April first week (when interviews are over). There are 28 working days, lets assume they interview everyday. I saw 2 slots per day to book. So that’s approximately 168 candidates. There are 80 direct training contract spots. That is a 47% chance you get an offer. This will be even higher if they want to factor in people who would be turning down them. So they will be perhaps making like 100 offers. These odds seem too good to be true. But the assumption that they interview only in groups of 3 must hold. If the odds are this high, and since we haven’t heard anything in over 4 weeks could mean, the coming days might not hold any good news. Because, would it take that long for ff to pick 1 out of 2 people if they want to make an offer. Since a lot of people have already got the offer and we haven’t heard of any rejections yet. It is likely that the people who have not yet heard are most likely ……😞 unless next Monday or Tuesday they get a ring. Please feel free to comment on the validity of this theory, or any flaws you see in it. I just pray this theory doesn’t stand.

As others have mentioned, I am not quite sure these numbers will be correct and to be honest, it is absolutely impossible to predict the kind of numbers you are dealing with because there is likely to be a lot of information that you are not aware of. For example, they may not be filling all of the slots that you saw, or alternatively they may be adding more slots at a later date. As another user mentioned, they could have an entirely separate interview period!

I am also not sure about your implication that it is easier to pick 1 out of 2 people to make offers to than to pick a smaller number. In all likelihood, everyone who makes AC stage will be excellent candidates but there is simply not enough space to give offers to all AC candidates. Often there are a tiny minority of applicants who really stand out, but the toughest part of the decision making will be to choose who not to take, which may be even harder if there are a large number of people.

There could be a time delay in making offers as a result of any other number of issues, including vacancies in the graduate recruitment team, a busy period of deals/disputes for partners who are supposed to be interviewing candidates, or a more general delay arising from assessment of business need going forward!

Okay thank you very much for the detailed explanation. Chances look way more slimmer now. Somewhere between 12-25%. My interview wasn’t the greatest, so I am not going to get my hopes high.

It is also always tempting to make predictions of one's chances based on statistical odds but I am not really sure that odds come into it so much when considering that applications and interviews are not a matter of luck, but an issue of how well suited you are to the firm in question. I had success with some firms where I faced steep mathematical odds and got rejected by firms where the odds would seemingly have been more in my favour.

Ultimately, this post hopes to dispel myths that applicants may have in relation to hearing back from firms at any stage in the process!

And finally, try to remind yourself that it is not a PFO until it is a PFO 😊

 

[James Carrabino]

Regarding FF offers I also got one late last week by phone but they did make the point that they’re still interviewing and were right at the beginning of their offer process!! Also happy to share any tips etc. that I found particularly helpful if anyone would be interested 😊

Freshfields TC offer as well - got the call last week They also told me that they were still giving out offers / making decisions when I got told for everyone who hasn't heard

Congrats to both of you on this amazing achievement!! 😊

 

[James Carrabino]

Has anyone applied to Rosenblatt? The firm's website says applications are closed, but lawcareers.net says the deadline is 30 April...

I did not have any experience with this firm but I would tend to go with what the firm's website says, as long as you are sure that you are checking the correct part of their website and have also navigated to their application portal to check that as well. It may be that they received enough applications in advance and so brought their deadline forward from what was initially published.

 

[James Carrabino]

Is anyone intending to apply to Orrick for a direct TC?

I've noticed that one of the app questions is a 500-word cover letter (open slate), but then they also have separate questions asking why commercial law, why Orrick etc.

Therefore, if I followed the standard structure of why law, why Orrick, why me....I'd be repeating myself in the ensuing app questions.

Anyone know a way around this?

For the Orrick application, I think that it is possible to construe the application questions differently from material that you would include in the cover letter in order to avoid overlap. The questions that I think you are referring to which you consider to be 'Why law' and 'Why Orrick' are the following:

• Why have you decided to pursue a career as a commercial lawyer working in an international law firm? What factors and influences have affected your decision?

• Why specifically are you interested in training at Orrick? What makes us different to the other firms you have applied for?

Then, of course, you have a 500-word covering letter in addition!


First of all, remember that 500 words is quite short. By the time you address your letter to the recruiter and introduce yourself, your academic background and current position, and sign off the letter at the end, you do not have that many words to play with!

If it were me, I would introduce my overarching interest in law at the beginning of the cover letter, without spending too much time on this. I think it is especially important for someone from a non-law background (like myself) to outline what first got them thinking about law and where that interest is rooted! This is the traditional 'Why law' section of your cover letter and does not need to be too extensive in this case, which is good, given the tight word count.

Then I would talk about why I am attracted to the firm as a whole and why a career there would be of particular value to me, including the firm's excellent work on certain deals and in certain sectors, and any star lawyers that you would love the opportunity to work with. This is the 'Why Orrick' section of your cover letter and there should be a reasonable amount to discuss here which does not overlap with the second bullet point, which I will elaborate on further below!

The real benefit of the cover letter is the opportunity to explain 'Why me' and it is perfect because this section does not overlap with any of the other questions in the application! You could sort of say it overlaps with the extra-curricular activities, prizes or 'greatest success' question but in reality this provides an opportunity for you to outline your skillset as demonstrated by a range of your achievements and experiences that you may not have space to talk about elsewhere.

You will find that you easily reach 500 words with all of this!



Now I will consider the kinds of things that I would mention in the two questions I have bullet-pointed above.

In the first question, I think you should consider specifically the commercial and international aspect of the question. Really dig into your interest in business and why you are not only interested in law generally, but specifically why you would thrive at a major international commercial law firm! Since you are keeping your 'Why law' section of the cover letter brief, you can also elaborate more on that in this question.

In the second question you should bear in mind that you are being asked specifically why you are interested in training at Orrick. I would mention more specific things about the unique nature of the firm's training contract vis-a-vis other firms (e.g. the six seats, any mentorship opportunities, required seats etc.) and the practice areas that I would be interested in exploring as part of the training contract.


I hope that this is all helpful! I think you should be able to answer all of these questions without overlap but please let me know if you have any further questions

 

[Zacher]

I

As others have mentioned, I am not quite sure these numbers will be correct and to be honest, it is absolutely impossible to predict the kind of numbers you are dealing with because there is likely to be a lot of information that you are not aware of. For example, they may not be filling all of the slots that you saw, or alternatively they may be adding more slots at a later date. As another user mentioned, they could have an entirely separate interview period!

I am also not sure about your implication that it is easier to pick 1 out of 2 people to make offers to than to pick a smaller number. In all likelihood, everyone who makes AC stage will be excellent candidates but there is simply not enough space to give offers to all AC candidates. Often there are a tiny minority of applicants who really stand out, but the toughest part of the decision making will be to choose who not to take, which may be even harder if there are a large number of people.

There could be a time delay in making offers as a result of any other number of issues, including vacancies in the graduate recruitment team, a busy period of deals/disputes for partners who are supposed to be interviewing candidates, or a more general delay arising from assessment of business need going forward!



It is also always tempting to make predictions of one's chances based on statistical odds but I am not really sure that odds come into it so much when considering that applications and interviews are not a matter of luck, but an issue of how well suited you are to the firm in question. I had success with some firms where I faced steep mathematical odds and got rejected by firms where the odds would seemingly have been more in my favour.

Ultimately, this post hopes to dispel myths that applicants may have in relation to hearing back from firms at any stage in the process!

And finally, try to remind yourself that it is not a PFO until it is a PFO 😊

Thank you also much for such detailed explanation. I am just hoping for a miracle. Early next week i am expecting something cuz now it is almost a month.

 

[Brandon93]

Hey! I was wondering if anyone knew which firms have a good chance of taking direct TC intakes? My apologies if this question has been answered before, but it would be really helpful to me.

Just speaking from personal experience, Bird & Bird, Macfarlanes, Stephenson Harwood, BCLP, Mayer Brown, Freshfields, Linklaters, Ashurst and Baker McKenzie take a fair amount of Direct TC applicants.

 

[tt_xo]

If making direct tc apps and mentioning that you have a vac scheme in the summer coming up, do you think it would be helpful to include a brief one liner that your still mostly interested in the firm your making a direct tc app to, for a training contract?

 

[NaimK]

For the Orrick application, I think that it is possible to construe the application questions differently from material that you would include in the cover letter in order to avoid overlap. The questions that I think you are referring to which you consider to be 'Why law' and 'Why Orrick' are the following:

• Why have you decided to pursue a career as a commercial lawyer working in an international law firm? What factors and influences have affected your decision?

• Why specifically are you interested in training at Orrick? What makes us different to the other firms you have applied for?

Then, of course, you have a 500-word covering letter in addition!


First of all, remember that 500 words is quite short. By the time you address your letter to the recruiter and introduce yourself, your academic background and current position, and sign off the letter at the end, you do not have that many words to play with!

If it were me, I would introduce my overarching interest in law at the beginning of the cover letter, without spending too much time on this. I think it is especially important for someone from a non-law background (like myself) to outline what first got them thinking about law and where that interest is rooted! This is the traditional 'Why law' section of your cover letter and does not need to be too extensive in this case, which is good, given the tight word count.

Then I would talk about why I am attracted to the firm as a whole and why a career there would be of particular value to me, including the firm's excellent work on certain deals and in certain sectors, and any star lawyers that you would love the opportunity to work with. This is the 'Why Orrick' section of your cover letter and there should be a reasonable amount to discuss here which does not overlap with the second bullet point, which I will elaborate on further below!

The real benefit of the cover letter is the opportunity to explain 'Why me' and it is perfect because this section does not overlap with any of the other questions in the application! You could sort of say it overlaps with the extra-curricular activities, prizes or 'greatest success' question but in reality this provides an opportunity for you to outline your skillset as demonstrated by a range of your achievements and experiences that you may not have space to talk about elsewhere.

You will find that you easily reach 500 words with all of this!



Now I will consider the kinds of things that I would mention in the two questions I have bullet-pointed above.

In the first question, I think you should consider specifically the commercial and international aspect of the question. Really dig into your interest in business and why you are not only interested in law generally, but specifically why you would thrive at a major international commercial law firm! Since you are keeping your 'Why law' section of the cover letter brief, you can also elaborate more on that in this question.

In the second question you should bear in mind that you are being asked specifically why you are interested in training at Orrick. I would mention more specific things about the unique nature of the firm's training contract vis-a-vis other firms (e.g. the six seats, any mentorship opportunities, required seats etc.) and the practice areas that I would be interested in exploring as part of the training contract.


I hope that this is all helpful! I think you should be able to answer all of these questions without overlap but please let me know if you have any further questions

As always man, very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to write this. I see the nuance.

 

[Jessica Booker]

If making direct tc apps and mentioning that you have a vac scheme in the summer coming up, do you think it would be helpful to include a brief one liner that your still mostly interested in the firm your making a direct tc app to, for a training contract?

I don’t think this is needed. By applying you are clearly considering that firm, so to me it’s just stating something obvious.

 

[Brandon93]

Has anyone on here ever gotten to a Direct TC AC for Orrick?

I am trying to decide if it's worth applying since they only have 4 TCs.

Thanks.

 

[Abii]

Has anyone on here ever gotten to a Direct TC AC for Orrick?

I am trying to decide if it's worth applying since they only have 4 TCs.

Thanks.

I got to the final recruitment stage for direct TC last cycle.

 

[John Doe]

AC invite for Fieldfisher 2024 TC! This is my first and only AC invite for this cycle and I am in complete disbelief.

(Woooaahhhhhhh!!!!!)

 

[s.k.o]

I

Thank you also much for such detailed explanation. I am just hoping for a miracle. Early next week i am expecting something cuz now it is almost a month.

I only did my AC late last week so no worries 🙏 They are still assessing