TCLA Direct Training Contract Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[julia_2022]

Is anyone aware of when Ashurst is holding it’s last direct tc assessment centre?

 

[Abii]

Does anyone know of any firms that pay back lpc retrospectively but it's disclosed publicly? Do ES, DLA or Orrick do?

Clifford Chance, Latham and HSF reimburse in full. don’t know if that will change as they transition to SQE as some firms are expecting LPC grads do SQE 2.

Not all firms do though. Likely because they have specific LPC providers they use and probably get a better price than self-funders.

 

[OHo]

Is anyone aware of when Ashurst is holding it’s last direct tc assessment centre?

I was told the one on the 27th of May was the last one

 

[julia_2022]

I was told the one on the 27th of May was the last one

Thank you

 

[Limanehious]

Hi has anyone heard from Flex Legal? @Jessica Booker have you sent invitations? Conscious that we were told we would hear either way and that the ACs are meant to be this month

 

[j.s.cox]

I also cannot access the NRF application portal, if anyone could help?

I've sent them an email as I still cannot access it.

 

[dg_burnham]

Is anyone aware of when Ashurst is holding it’s last direct tc assessment centre?

I just got an invite today for its direct tc ac. Very confused, thought they would all be completed by now, might be an IT error.

 

[lawcurious]

I've sent them an email as I still cannot access it.

I just got a response it said - "The link for the Training Contract application won’t be live on the NRF website until later today but you can find it by using this link: https://fsr.cvmailuk.com/nortonrosefulbright/main.cfm?page=jobSpecific&jobId=61830"

So I think its just not live yet

*for NRF TC if anybody else is wondering

 

[Brandon93]

Does anyone know how if NRF's A level requirement is a strict one or does the firm look at applications as a whole?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi has anyone heard from Flex Legal? @Jessica Booker have you sent invitations? Conscious that we were told we would hear either way and that the ACs are meant to be this month

Hi @Limanehious

Please don’t worry - the ACs won’t be this month - they are in July.

Everyone should hear back by no later than 24th June.

You can email me at [email protected] if you have any questions. I’ll be back on emails on Monday due to the bank holiday weekend.

 

[lawcurious]

Hi - I was wondering if i could get any advice re this. This is my first application cycle and I've been fortunate to pass the application stage for many of my applications and get to ACs or interviews, but i always get rejected at that stage. The feedback I've gotten from my AC interviews have been different from each firm as their feedback is also firm specific (dependent on the types of questions they asked, what they wanted to see, etc). I want to make sure Im maximising my resources and not falling back on the last stages anymore - does anybody have any guidance on how i can go about this?

For every feedback I've gotten I have worked on it and done better on that feedback in the next interview that I had. There's somehow always something that keeps me from getting the VS or TC. Is there anything anybody would suggest with interview and AC preparations that isn't already out there mainstream advice wise (i.e I've read TCLA's resources, youtube videos, etc).

 

[George Maxwell]

Hi @Jessica Booker
I feel incredibly fortunate to have been offered a TC at a firm (Firm A), that I have until 27th June to accept. I have also accepted a summer vacation scheme at another firm (Firm B), with the scheme only ending on 5th July. Neither firms mention anything regarding undertaking work experiences after accepting a TC with any other firm on their contracts. Would it be alright to accept Firm A's TC offer and subsequently undertake Firm B's vacation scheme?

Hey @Lakshmi,

Welcome to the forum! I know that you have directed your question at Jess, but I thought that it might be helpful to give you a response from my point of view too. This may well differ from Jess's, however, I think it is always useful to hear what a couple of people think.

Personally, I think that it is important to be cautious here. Graduate Recruitment is a very small world* and you want to start your training contract on a positive note with your firm. You also don't want to stress later on about the possibility of either firm finding out that you either reneged on a TC offer, or completed a vacation scheme having accepted a TC at a different firm. TCs are obviously notoriously difficult to get, and being left in the position of not having a training contract would be really awful given the position that you are currently in (although I think that this is unlikely, it is always possible if Firm A wished to retract the offer). My worry would be that, although it is not explicitly prohibited, it might be regarded as deceptive to complete a vacation scheme at a different firm once you have accepted.

For what it's worth, I do think that you should take as many opportunities as you can. Firm B's vacation scheme is definitely an opportunity that you shouldn't pass up lightly(!). However, my concern is that if you were to accept and complete the vacation scheme at Firm B, someone at Firm A might find out and this would reflect badly on you (and might even risk your TC offer). By being transparent you are demonstrating that you have integrity and that you value honesty (which can only be a good thing). I think asking the firm is also a mature response to a difficult situation. The firm should also appreciate that there are undoubtedly positives for you as an aspiring lawyer of completing more than one vacation scheme (not least for skills development). It also avoids tainting your relationship with Firm A in the future (if you were to renege on your TC after completing a vacation scheme without their knowledge at Firm B).

If I were in your position, I would be transparent with Firm A. I would tell them who Firm B is, tell them about the situation and give them reasons as to why I wanted to complete a vacation scheme at Firm B. Strong reasons to justify this might include: money (for example, if it were a 2 week vacation scheme, you might tell the firm that earning £800+ would allow you to travel/pay off your student loan etc.), personal/professional development (through expanding your network and giving you exposure to a range of legal tasks) and/or that it would allow me to make a more informed decision (by allowing me to experience more than one firm!). I would then ask whether they would consider extending the date on which my offer expired. I would also make clear that I would be more than happy to discuss it with them further on a call and that I was letting them know to be transparent and that you have no intention of being deceptive/dishonest.

This approach is bold, but I think it demonstrates maturity. I would make clear to Firm A that this was not a reflection of my attitude towards their offer or the prospect of training with them. It is important to demonstrate that you are not simply wishing to keep them on the hook in the hope of obtaining a better offer, but that it is a request driven by thoroughly considered reasoning.

Do let me know if you would like any further help with this @Lakshmi. I appreciate that this is a tricky situation!

* Just as an example of Graduate Recruitment being a very small world: I interviewed at Firm 1 but was unsuccessful. I had already applied to Firm 2 and obtained a vacation scheme with them. I had a post-interview feedback call with a member of Firm 1's Graduate Recruitment team, let's call them Y. Y was lovely and I actually wrote them a postcard to say thank you (as they went above and beyond in giving me my feedback). Fast forward a few months, I start my vacation scheme at Firm 2. By coincidence, Y had moved to Firm 2 in the interim(!). In fact, they had moved a week or so after our call, but I didn't know. Moral of the story: you never know who will end up where, especially in Graduate Recruitment!

 

[GXA123]

Hi @Limanehious

Please don’t worry - the ACs won’t be this month - they are in July.

Everyone should hear back by no later than 24th June.

You can email me at [email protected] if you have any questions. I’ll be back on emails on Monday due to the bank holiday weekend.

what position is this?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey @Lakshmi,

Welcome to the forum! I know that you have directed your question at Jess, but I thought that it might be helpful to give you a response from my point of view too. This may well differ from Jess's, however, I think it is always useful to hear what a couple of people think.

Personally, I think that it is important to be cautious here. Graduate Recruitment is a very small world* and you want to start your training contract on a positive note with your firm. You also don't want to stress later on about the possibility of either firm finding out that you either reneged on a TC offer, or completed a vacation scheme having accepted a TC at a different firm. TCs are obviously notoriously difficult to get, and being left in the position of not having a training contract would be really awful given the position that you are currently in (although I think that this is unlikely, it is always possible if Firm A wished to retract the offer). My worry would be that, although it is not explicitly prohibited, it might be regarded as deceptive to complete a vacation scheme at a different firm once you have accepted.

For what it's worth, I do think that you should take as many opportunities as you can. Firm B's vacation scheme is definitely an opportunity that you shouldn't pass up lightly(!). However, my concern is that if you were to accept and complete the vacation scheme at Firm B, someone at Firm A might find out and this would reflect badly on you (and might even risk your TC offer). By being transparent you are demonstrating that you have integrity and that you value honesty (which can only be a good thing). I think asking the firm is also a mature response to a difficult situation. The firm should also appreciate that there are undoubtedly positives for you as an aspiring lawyer of completing more than one vacation scheme (not least for skills development). It also avoids tainting your relationship with Firm A in the future (if you were to renege on your TC after completing a vacation scheme without their knowledge at Firm B).

If I were in your position, I would be transparent with Firm A. I would tell them who Firm B is, tell them about the situation and give them reasons as to why I wanted to complete a vacation scheme at Firm B. Strong reasons to justify this might include: money (for example, if it were a 2 week vacation scheme, you might tell the firm that earning £800+ would allow you to travel/pay off your student loan etc.), personal/professional development (through expanding your network and giving you exposure to a range of legal tasks) and/or that it would allow me to make a more informed decision (by allowing me to experience more than one firm!). I would then ask whether they would consider extending the date on which my offer expired. I would also make clear that I would be more than happy to discuss it with them further on a call and that I was letting them know to be transparent and that you have no intention of being deceptive/dishonest.

This approach is bold, but I think it demonstrates maturity. I would make clear to Firm A that this was not a reflection of my attitude towards their offer or the prospect of training with them. It is important to demonstrate that you are not simply wishing to keep them on the hook in the hope of obtaining a better offer, but that it is a request driven by thoroughly considered reasoning.

Do let me know if you would like any further help with this @Lakshmi. I appreciate that this is a tricky situation!

* Just as an example of Graduate Recruitment being a very small world: I interviewed at Firm 1 but was unsuccessful. I had already applied to Firm 2 and obtained a vacation scheme with them. I had a post-interview feedback call with a member of Firm 1's Graduate Recruitment team, let's call them Y. Y was lovely and I actually wrote them a postcard to say thank you (as they went above and beyond in giving me my feedback). Fast forward a few months, I start my vacation scheme at Firm 2. By coincidence, Y had moved to Firm 2 in the interim(!). In fact, they had moved a week or so after our call, but I didn't know. Moral of the story: you never know who will end up where, especially in Graduate Recruitment!

I wouldn’t worry about GR being a small world in all honesty - the only person who can share with any firm that you have reneged an offer is you as a candidate. It’s a data breach otherwise which could get them into a lot of trouble.

Even when people move across law firms, they tend to care a lot more about you making the right decision. They really won’t hold grudges on people reneging offers.

 

[Sarai]

Dentons TI (I got the invitation 5h after the WG). This is my second TI with Dentons after I did very well back in 2020, but the firm decided to cancel TCs that year because of Covid and just told me to reapply ups and downs

Do you have any advice for the TI?

 

[app03]

Hii this is my second time applying to Freshfields, but first time for direct tc and I was wondering if I could get some advice on how to proceed with the 850-word letter. Whether I should make any changes to it as I had previously succeeded in the initial application stage for vac scheme.

 

[George Maxwell]

Hii this is my second time applying to Freshfields, but first time for direct tc and I was wondering if I could get some advice on how to proceed with the 850-word letter. Whether I should make any changes to it as I had previously succeeded in the initial application stage for vac scheme.

Hi @app03,

Welcome to the forum! Great question. Just to make sure I understand correctly, when you say you succeeded in the initial application stage for the vacation scheme previously, do you mean that you were progressed to interview, or that you were invited to take the Watson Glaser?

 

[George Maxwell]

Hi - I was wondering if i could get any advice re this. This is my first application cycle and I've been fortunate to pass the application stage for many of my applications and get to ACs or interviews, but i always get rejected at that stage. The feedback I've gotten from my AC interviews have been different from each firm as their feedback is also firm specific (dependent on the types of questions they asked, what they wanted to see, etc). I want to make sure Im maximising my resources and not falling back on the last stages anymore - does anybody have any guidance on how i can go about this?

For every feedback I've gotten I have worked on it and done better on that feedback in the next interview that I had. There's somehow always something that keeps me from getting the VS or TC. Is there anything anybody would suggest with interview and AC preparations that isn't already out there mainstream advice wise (i.e I've read TCLA's resources, youtube videos, etc).

Hey @lawcurious,

I am really sorry to hear this as I know how frustrating post-AC feedback can be.

Have you considered having a mock interview/assessment centre (either with friends, family, with a paid service or your university- for example I know BPP ran these for students when I was studying the PGDL)? Practice ahead of interviews (I found) was the silver bullet.

Something else to mention is that (I am told) sometimes firms will provide candidates with feedback that appears tangible, but really is a veil for more intangible reasoning (which are not really permissible as feedback). I know that @Jessica Booker has said this in the past on the forum elsewhere, but I think sometimes interviewers believe that a candidate has ticked all the boxes, but just doesn't 'feel' quite right (or something to that effect). Firm feedback can be extremely useful (and I think candidates should always ask for it whether they are successful or not!), but I think it is important not to take it too much to heart (as far as possible). On the day, it may just have been that your interviewers/assessors thought that you were not quite up to the mark for one reason or another. It might also be an indication that the firm felt that you were not quite right for them (but would be a fantastic trainee elsewhere).

This might seem unsatisfying (and a bit wishy-washy), but I wanted to mention it as sometimes these things are a little out of your control. That's not to say that you can't improve your chances (i.e., through practice!), but these processes are, to some extent, difficult to unpick and work out.

Please do reach out if you would like any further advice though @lawcurious. I fully believe that, given your success in applications and experience interviewing already, that things will turn out right.

Keep grinding, we are right there with you 🚀

 

[John Travoni]

@George Maxwell @Jessica Booker I was wondering if you could help me on this. I’m researching on the following question:
Diversity & Inclusion: what are the key considerations for the legal sector in the MENA region?

I was wondering if I could get your views on this and any ideas you may have pls.

 

[app03]

Hi @app03,

Welcome to the forum! Great question. Just to make sure I understand correctly, when you say you succeeded in the initial application stage for the vacation scheme previously, do you mean that you were progressed to interview, or that you were invited to take the Watson Glaser?

Thanks! I got an invite for WG and if I’m not wrong it isn’t automatic for ff so I’m assuming they read my application?