I am an Associate at a Global Law Firm. Ask me Anything!

[Alice G]

Hi @ebitda. I am so glad you asked this question - I am in the process of preparing a course for the TCLA on this exact topic. I therefore encourage you to visit it once it is up!

So as to not take away too much from the course, I shall just cover some of the salient points about what I wish I had known before starting my TC. Firstly, I wish I had dispelled all my pre-existing thoughts on a particular department. I went into my TC thinking I would never enjoy Corporate work, but when I was placed into the Corporate department during my first seat, I absolutely loved it. While this wasn't a hinderance, it may have saved weeks of worry and overthinking. Secondly, never feel like an imposter. Trainees often hold back from volunteering for tasks because they feel like they are not "worthy" or are afraid of making mistakes; I still make mistakes as an associate, but without learning from these mistakes, you will never develop and you may miss out on a great opportunity. Finally, do your research. Before starting your TC, it can be incredibly helpful to know what type of work you will be doing and the opportunities available in that department. By doing this, it can be easier to map out your TC and seize every opportunity available.

In regard to your second question, there isn't anything I wish I had done differently. My journey was my journey and I qualified into a fantastic department, doing the work I love. I was also able to undertake a client and international secondment, which is also quite rare. I do wish I was able to experience more advisory departments, however, this is the issue with only undertaking four seats!

Finally, in regard to your last question, I did the following seats:
Seat 1 - Corporate
Seat 2 - Client Secondment
Seat 3 - Antitrust / EU Competition
Seat 4 - International Secondment

I qualified into Corporate because I found it best suited my personality. I like the rush of a deal and being at the center of the negotiations. In particular, I enjoy drafting, which is quite a key feature of the role of an associate in a Corporate department.

Hopefully this helps!

Hi @LM, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the differences between a transactional seat and an advisory seat asides from perhaps the difference in the 'steadiness' of hours. What sort of skills and attributes does a person need in each of these types of seat: is there overlap in this regard between the two and how do these skill requirements etc differ? Also, how does the work vary? It was interesting to read above about drafting in corporate so are advisory seats possibly more research heavy?

Also, what was the best day or week of your TC and why?

 

[Legaleagle]

Hi @LM!

Thank you for your time. I was wondering how easy it really was to have a life outside of work. I know that busyness can be in peaks and troughs, but have you generally found that you could keep hobbies up alongside your TC (for example going to the gym regularly, etc)?

Many thanks!

 

[LM]

Hi @LM, thanks for this thread!

Do you have any advice/tips on how to convert a vac scheme into a TC offer? Thank you!!

Thanks, @nina_123. In terms of providing insight from the perspective of a vac schemer, I would point you towards the Ask me Anything threads from future trainees that we have in the forum.

My response shall be from the perspective of an associate giving feedback on a vac schemer. Firstly, I look for good quality work. This is a must. The first question I ask myself when providing feedback is "Can I trust this person to produce quality work?" If the answer is no, then it is hard for the vac schemer to be given a position at the Firm. That being said, it is important to remember the importance of the TC interview. During my first vac scheme, I received fantastic feedback from my supervisors, but I failed to perform during the interview. I thought I had the job "in the bag" and this arrogance was my undoing. Secondly, therefore, remember to put in the time to prepare for your TC interview and ask questions from Associates and Trainees to help you prepare. Finally, I consider whether the vac schemer showed an interest in the work they were given. Did they ask any follow up questions? Did they offer to help out with extra work? Not all the work you will do will be interesting, but showing a passion for the area is key.

 

[IntrepidL]

Hi @LM, I would be interested in knowing what are the benefits of completing a client secondment versus an international secondment? Which one did you prefer, and do you believe one is more valuable than the other (i.e. in terms of professional development, the skills developed and the network you gained)?

 

[LM]

Hi @LM, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the differences between a transactional seat and an advisory seat asides from perhaps the difference in the 'steadiness' of hours. What sort of skills and attributes does a person need in each of these types of seat: is there overlap in this regard between the two and how do these skill requirements etc differ? Also, how does the work vary? It was interesting to read above about drafting in corporate so are advisory seats possibly more research heavy?

Also, what was the best day or week of your TC and why?

Thanks, @Alice G for the great question! To simply label an advisory seat as just "research-heavy" would be to do these departments a disservice. For example, during my time in the Antitrust department, I shared my time between assisting with merger filings (a task that is naturally more "transactional" due to its importance to a deal's overall structure) and assisting with Article 101 infringements (a more research-focused task). I would say that most advisory seats have a transactional arm to their practice that you will be involved in, so really, I don't think you ever get away from that type of work. However, that being said, the amount of time that is spent on transactional work, is one of the key differentiators. During my time in the Corporate department, I can't remember the last time I conducted a piece of legal research. Conversely, in an advisory department, there is a greater variety of work and more scope to conduct legal research into particular areas. I want to take this opportunity to also highlight how these differences play out when it comes to a particular M&A transaction. In the Corporate department, you will be drafting the transaction documentation (e.g., the SPA) and negotiating with the other side. As a member of the advisory team, you will be conducting due diligence into a particular area of the Target business and feeding your input back to the Corporate team.

In terms of the skills required, most of the skills needed are not unique to a transactional or advisory seat. The skills you need for both are: high levels of attention to detail; dedication; lateral and commercial thinking; and an ability to effectively communicate with others. The main difference, I found, between a transactional and advisory seat was the ability to conduct quality legal research. You need to be able to find a particular point of law and summarize this succinctly.

Hope this helps!

 

[Alice G]

Thanks, @Alice G for the great question! To simply label an advisory seat as just "research-heavy" would be to do these departments a disservice. For example, during my time in the Antitrust department, I shared my time between assisting with merger filings (a task that is naturally more "transactional" due to its importance to a deal's overall structure) and assisting with Article 101 infringements (a more research-focused task). I would say that most advisory seats have a transactional arm to their practice that you will be involved in, so really, I don't think you ever get away from that type of work. However, that being said, the amount of time that is spent on transactional work, is one of the key differentiators. During my time in the Corporate department, I can't remember the last time I conducted a piece of legal research. Conversely, in an advisory department, there is a greater variety of work and more scope to conduct legal research into particular areas. I want to take this opportunity to also highlight how these differences play out when it comes to a particular M&A transaction. In the Corporate department, you will be drafting the transaction documentation (e.g., an SPA) and negotiating with the other side. As a member of the advisory team, you will be conducting due diligence into a particular area of the Target business and feeding your input back to the Corporate team.

In terms of the skills required, most of the skills needed are not unique to a transactional or advisory seat. The skills you need for both are: high levels of attention to detail; dedication; lateral and commercial thinking; and an ability to effectively communicate with others. The main difference, I found, between a transactional and advisory seat was the ability to conduct quality legal research. You need to be able to find a particular point of law and summarize this succinctly.

Hope this helps!

This is really insightful - thank you for taking the time to answer!

 

[LM]

Hi @LM, I would be interested in knowing what are the benefits of completing a client secondment versus an international secondment? Which one did you prefer, and do you believe one is more valuable than the other (i.e. in terms of professional development, the skills developed and the network you gained)?

Thanks,@IntrepidL. Overall, I found a client secondment to be more useful for my career. The ability to understand a client's business is invaluable, as you are able to gain an understanding of what advice actually matters. This means that when you return to the Firm, you have valuable insight that helps you differentiate yourself from the crowd. Further, you often find yourself having to think on your feet more when dealing with internal tasks. However, this is not to say that an international secondment is not valuable. You grow your network (from an internal perspective) and you get to experience another culture while learning about a jurisdiction that is alien to your own. It is a lot of fun if you like to travel!

 

[nomi]

Hi @LM, thank for being incredibly insightful with your answers. Would love your thoughts on the following:

1) In your experience, did the working hours between advisory and transactional seat differ (anti-trust vs corporate)? Would be great if you could give us a picture of your average leaving times in antitrust vs corporate seats.

2) Does qualifying into one particular area of the firm (corporate, for example, which is the strongest for the firm) increase and and strengthen your chances of becoming a partner (and quicker) than someone who qualified into corporate support areas e.g. antitrust or employment etc? Or does it have no impact on your career?

Many thanks

 

[KM6363]

Hi @LM

Thank you so much for sharing your insights.

I am currently a trainee in my third seat and wondered if you had any advice on the following:

1) Navigating the qualification process - I have been told that NQ interviews are particularly challenging. Did you prepare extensively to ensure you secured a place in your chosen department? Did you consider applying externally?

2) Technical ability - You mentioned that some trainees may do mundane tasks during their contract. How does one develop technical ability if so and how were you able to demonstrate the legal knowledge you acquired on qualification?

3) Commercial awareness - has your approach to developing commercial awareness changed at all following qualification? Were you expected to demonstrate a higher level of business acumen?

4) Attention to detail - developing this skill has been particularly challenging for me and the pressure to achieve perfection can be overwhelming. Did you receive any form of training to develop this skill?

Thanks again for your contribution to the Forum, it's really appreciated.

 

[LM]

Hi @LM!

Thank you for your time. I was wondering how easy it really was to have a life outside of work. I know that busyness can be in peaks and troughs, but have you generally found that you could keep hobbies up alongside your TC (for example going to the gym regularly, etc)?

Many thanks!

Thanks, @Legaleagle. I love the name by the way! I found it easy to keep up my hobbies. In fact, during my TC, I managed to keep up my workout classes. I also found time for dinners, drinks and socialising with friends. Even as an Associate, I still have time to do all these things (albeit in a pre-pandemic environment). As you progress throughout your career you get better at managing your time and forecasting work flow.

I want to take this opportunity to try and distill the rumour that Corporate US Firm Associates have no life - this is simply not true. Most people who have no life outside of work is because they have made the active decision to do so. If you plan your time well and are efficient with work flow, there is no reason you can't have a fantastic work/life balance in this profession.

 

[Lumree]

Thanks @LM. When applying, what were you looking for in your training contract and do you think you found it?

 

[LM]

Hi @LM, thank for being incredibly insightful with your answers. Would love your thoughts on the following:

1) In your experience, did the working hours between advisory and transactional seat differ (anti-trust vs corporate)? Would be great if you could give us a picture of your average leaving times in antitrust vs corporate seats.

2) Does qualifying into one particular area of the firm (corporate, for example, which is the strongest for the firm) increase and and strengthen your chances of becoming a partner (and quicker) than someone who qualified into corporate support areas e.g. antitrust or employment etc? Or does it have no impact on your career?

Many thanks

Thanks, @nomi. In regard to your first question, I found there to be less late nights in an advisory department. However, the amount of time I spent in the office was pretty comparable. For example, in Antitrust, I worked 9-8pm nearly every day. In Corporate, I would sometimes work 9-5:30 during quiet periods, but then I have done a dozen or so all-nighters topped with some very long working days. This usually occurs during a signing or closing of a transaction. As a result, when you factor these in, my average leaving times for both departments was about the same.

In regard to your second question, full disclosure, I have no idea! If you find out the answer, please do let me know as it will help me reach my goal of becoming a Partner! I don't believe that being in a particular department will necessarily mean you become a Partner. What is key is your ability to generate business while being exceptional at your job.

 

[Legaleagle]

Thanks, @Legaleagle. I love the name by the way! I found it easy to keep up my hobbies. In fact, during my TC, I was captain of my Firm's football team and I also managed to keep up my gym routine. I also found time for dinners, drinks and socialising with friends. Even as an Associate, I still have time to do all these things (albeit in a pre-pandemic environment). As you progress throughout your career you get better at managing your time and forecasting work flow. Once you develop this skill, you can when you can make social plans and also, during periods, when you have to forego said plans.

I want to take this opportunity to try and distill the rumour that Corporate US Firm Associates have no life - this is simply not true. Most people who have no life outside of work is because they have made the active decision to do so. If you plan your time well and are efficient with work flow, there is no reason you can't have a fantastic work/life balance in this profession.

Thank you very much for your useful response @LM! It is great to know that with effective time management you can still keep up with sport, extra-curriculars, and a social life outside of work. Thank you for your time in responding

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks Dheepa for the warm introduction.

It's a fantastic question to kick off this thread. During my vacation scheme, one Partner at the Firm I work at now provided a very fitting response to this exact question:

"When working on a transaction, you will often find yourself across the table from someone your level at a Magic Circle law firm. Both of you will be up late ... but one of you is getting paid more."

While I find it rather crass to bring money into the discussion, I do believe the Partner's response does have great weight to it. You will have late nights and you will have early finishes; this is the nature of the job. I do however find this blanket statement that US associates work harder than their UK counterparts to be rather unhelpful for future applicants. In my experience, what I have found to be more important about your working hours is: 1) the department; 2) the size of the team; and 3) how strong the department is (specifically in terms of the work they do). For example, if you are working as a Private Equity Associate at K&E, you will be working longer hours than most. This is NOT due to the fact it is a US firm (and not a UK firm); it is because it is a large, elite department in the city, in a practice area that has notoriously tough clients who work all hours.

Please let me know if you would like me to expand further on the above.

Great to have you on-board!

My only input into this hours question is also when the long hours are. Some of the US firms tend to have later nights as ultimately a higher proportion of their work is coming in from the US and therefore working to US timezones/deadlines. This isn't the case for all US firms though (as some will be managing a much higher proportion of UK led matters). Some other international firms, especially those with stronger ties to Asia often find their long hours are with earlier starts where they are working to timezones in Asia (or either really late if the matter is being picked up in the morning in Asia). I can remember one partner being quite honest with me that they liked doing work with African clients as the timezones were typically more aligned to London!

 

[Adrian_Healey]

How difficult is it to move firms as an NQ?
Say if someone did their TC at a niche (but nonetheless international/commercial) firm, and decided to qualify in corporate or another more generalist practice, how difficult would it be to move to a global/US/MC firm?

 

[s_k_k_01]

Hi LM, thank you so much for creating this forum,

What would you say are the benefits of working at a global law firm in terms of the quality of work - Firms often refer to the added layer of complexity of multi-jurisdictional or cross border deals but what does this mean for work of the lawyers at the firm in practice?

Relating to this, how does a global law firm delegate work requiring expertise in multiple jurisdictions i.e. how much exposure does a lawyer get to the work relating to another jurisdiction; is it matter of delegating wholly to the relevant office and piecing everything together later?

Thank you!

 

[Zoo]

Hi @LM , thank you for taking the time to provide such detailed answers!

I have a couple of questions:

1. How do you manage your workload day to day?

2. In an earlier post, you mentioned making mistakes. I was wondering how you dealt with making mistakes (since they’re inevitable). By that I mean mistakes that you’ve realised yourself and mistakes that have been pointed out to you.

Thank you!

 

[PB]

Hi @LM thank you for your time to answer questions.

It’s been interesting to read about the differences between advisory and corporate departments, especially how advisory departments research aspects and feed back to the corporate team on a deal. I was wondering how you would describe a finance department, would the role they play be similar to an advisory department on a deal or more similar to a corporate department, or different altogether?

Thank you

 

[Daniel Boden]

Hi @LM thanks so much for agreeing to do this thread - I know I can speak for everyone when I say reading your thoughtful responses has been really insightful!

Firstly, I wondered what made you decide to undertake further study now?

Secondly, you said that you did several vacation schemes, what factors led you to pick the firm you did to train at?

Finally, I wondered if you could explain how your role has changed as an associate? Is the jump from trainee to qualified associate a big step up?

Thanks again,
Dan

 

[Jerome]

hey does anyone have any tips on answering this question?
How do you feel about knowing the majority of your work will make rich people richer