General Discussion Thread 2020-21

[lawyermeup]

Thank you so much for your reassurance. I am mainly targeting magic circle firms and haven’t seen much people there from non-Russell group universities

Hey, I was recently on the Linklaters Vac scheme and there were so many people not from a Russell group university!! Echo everything that’s already been said - believe in yourself and perfect your own personal brand and I’m sure you’ll smash it

 

[Jessica Booker]

Not true at all! I’m sure @Jessica Booker can say this more than me but law firms do not judge what university you went to! You have as much chance as anyone so long as you can demonstrate your commitment, values and motivations.

One of the worst myths out there! Lots of firms recruit non RG grads. The “RG” tag is getting pretty outdated these days anyway.

 

[Naomi U]

Hi everyone, I’m new to the forum.

I’m not sure if this is the right place. But I would like to know if it’s worth applying to international law firms if you are from a non-Russell group university. I do have the entry requirements as I gained A*AA at a-levels. However I am a bit concerned and I have heard a lot of people mention that law firms do not consider applicants from a non-Russell group background. I graduated with a 69% in law. But I feel I should have now went to a more reputable university as I did have the grades to. Please can someone put my mind at rest. I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts. I’m worried law firms will bin my app straight away due to coming from a non-Russell group university.

Hiya

Not a problem at all! I know many people from a range of universities who secured vac schemes and tcs at a number of the big international firms. As @lawyermeup said, it really is all about believing in yourself & your personal brand! ☺️

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you so much for your reassurance. I am mainly targeting magic circle firms and haven’t seen much people there from non-Russell group universities

That’s in part because they will get more applications from RG unis - disproportionately so.

 

[ab01]

Hey, I was recently on the Linklaters Vac scheme and there were so many people not from a Russell group university!! Echo everything that’s already been said - believe in yourself and perfect your own personal brand and I’m sure you’ll smash it

Thank you so much, it’s so great to hear that. Linklaters is on my list. So I will definitely consider applying to them later this year!

 

[ab01]

One of the worst myths out there! Lots of firms recruit non RG grads. The “RG” tag is getting pretty outdated these days anyway.

Thank you @Jessica Booker , as an experienced graduate recruiter from Allen & Overy and Freshfields. Did you recruit people from non RG backgrounds?

As I am very keen on applying to freshfields this summer

 

[ab01]

Hiya

Not a problem at all! I know many people from a range of universities who secured vac schemes and tcs at a number of the big international firms. As @lawyermeup said, it really is all about believing in yourself & your personal brand! ☺️

Hi Naomi, thank you so much I have definitely got a lot of reassurance now, and will certainly try and believe in myself! congrats on your TC with Linklaters, they are a very lucky firm to have you!

 

[Daniel Boden]

Thank you so much Daniel, I’m glad to hear that. It seems like I have been talking to the wrong people, I’m so glad I found this forum. Congratulations on your TC offer

Thank you very much and best of luck! Any questions please feel free to reach out

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you @Jessica Booker , as an experienced graduate recruiter from Allen & Overy and Freshfields. Did you recruit people from non RG backgrounds?

As I am very keen on applying to freshfields this summer

Yes - plenty and from a wide range of unis (not just your Baths/St Andrews that are not RG).

 

[Naomi U]

Hi Naomi, thank you so much I have definitely got a lot of reassurance now, and will certainly try and believe in myself! congrats on your TC with Linklaters, they are a very lucky firm to have you!

I'm glad to hear and thank you so much that's so kind ☺️

 

[whisperingrock]

Yes - plenty and from a wide range of unis (not just your Baths/St Andrews that are not RG).

What would you say the proportion per intake is between RG/non-RG in terms of getting offers?

 

[Lumree]

What would you say the proportion per intake is between RG/non-RG in terms of getting offers?

Legal Cheek’s ‘Most List’ usually gives a break down for each law firm on the university group its trainees attended. However, as Jessica mentioned, the results are usually skewed towards RG because that’s where a lot of students apply from, not because Non-RG aren’t given offers.

 

[whisperingrock]

Legal Cheek’s ‘Most List’ usually gives a break down for each law firm on the university group its trainees attended. However, as Jessica mentioned, the results are usually skewed towards RG because that’s where a lot of students apply from, not because Non-RG aren’t given offers.

This perspective sort of ignores the fact that most law firms actively court the RG unis (and a sprinkling of non-RG) over most non-RG ones. Like of course more RG students are going to apply if A&O is hosting a dinner just for them and not for London Met.

Edit: Like it almost comes off as victim blaming for the non-RG students who don't feel good enough to apply.

 

[ab01]

This perspective sort of ignores the fact that most law firms actively court the RG unis (and a sprinkling of non-RG) over most non-RG ones. Like of course more RG students are going to apply if A&O is hosting a dinner just for them and not for London Met.

Edit: Like it almost comes off as victim blaming for the non-RG students who don't feel good enough to apply.

Would like @Jessica Booker ’s opinion on this?

 

[ab01]

This perspective sort of ignores the fact that most law firms actively court the RG unis (and a sprinkling of non-RG) over most non-RG ones. Like of course more RG students are going to apply if A&O is hosting a dinner just for them and not for London Met.

Edit: Like it almost comes off as victim blaming for the non-RG students who don't feel good enough to apply.

I totally agree with you, most law firms do not offer events for non-RG universities, not sure why though? Is it because most people from these universities will not meet their entry requirements? As I do know a handful of people on my course who achieved lower in A-levels and therefore do not meet the criteria to apply.

 

[Jessica Booker]

What would you say the proportion per intake is between RG/non-RG in terms of getting offers?

Depends on the firm and the intake. Can very quite a lot.

But this article may give you can indication across types of firms and regions:

Law firms' preferred universities 2019 - Chambers Student Guide

The student’s guide to careers in the law. Gives the truth about law firms and the Bar. Based on thousands of interviews with trainees, pupils and market sources, this site offers the full package of careers advice to anyone entering the legal profession.

www.chambersstudent.co.uk

 

[Jessica Booker]

This perspective sort of ignores the fact that most law firms actively court the RG unis (and a sprinkling of non-RG) over most non-RG ones. Like of course more RG students are going to apply if A&O is hosting a dinner just for them and not for London Met.

Edit: Like it almost comes off as victim blaming for the non-RG students who don't feel good enough to apply.

If you are looking for people with strong academics (particularly sixth form grades), your chances of finding them at a RG uni are going to be much higher than at London Met.

So there is little point going to London Met to “court” students of the vast majority of them aren’t going to demonstrate strong entry grades, compared the Oxford where it will be rare to find someone who hasn’t got that strong academic performance.

But there is an issue of lack of applications from certain universities because of lack of confidence. And that isn’t unique to Non RG unis though. I spent far too much time with certain RG unis trying to improve the number of applications from them, but reality was that was a combination of a lack of confidence and the vast majority of their students wanted to stay in the north and didn’t want to move to London. So it’s not just a confidence thing - it’s also general preferences. Those general preferences also influence things like what the law society or law faculty are willing to to to engage with firms of different types too - and so sometimes the “courting” is not just down to the firms’ preferences but also want the university’s/students’.

Certain RG unis are much more heavily populated by middle class students from the Home Counties who want to work in the city, probably because their parents did. That’s not the case with a lot of other universities.

 

[whisperingrock]

If you are looking for people with strong academics (particularly sixth form grades), your chances of finding them at a RG uni are going to be much higher than at London Met.

So there is little point going to London Met to “court” students of the vast majority of them aren’t going to demonstrate strong entry grades, compared the Oxford where it will be rare to find someone who hasn’t got that strong academic performance.

But don't you think this is going to actively push away suitable candidates from non-RG backgrounds? I understand the rationale, but it makes the recruitment process incredibly unfriendly for anyone who isn't RG educated. In this very thread you have people who need reasurance that they should still apply because of the very recruitment culture this kind of behaviour has created.

 

[Jessica Booker]

To put it into perspective firms will get more than 25% of their applications from 2 universities alone. Guess what those two universities are? Confidence in applying works both ways - you get a lot of people who are probably over confident just because of the name of their uni.

 

[Jessica Booker]

But don't you think this is going to actively push away suitable candidates from non-RG backgrounds? I understand the rationale, but it makes the recruitment process incredibly unfriendly for anyone who isn't RG educated. In this very thread you have people who need reasurance that they should still apply because of the very recruitment culture this kind of behaviour has created.

Firms only have so much resource. It isn’t feasible to go out to every university - if it was, more firms would do so (although one benefit of covid has meant moving stuff online is much more accessible).

As I have mentioned above, it’s also about the willingness of the student population, careers service and law faculty at those universities too. It’s actually really hard work to work with some universities more so than others, and that stops some firms actively recruiting from those universities as it just isn’t worth the time and hassle.

I don’t think it should push people from other universities away though. There are plenty of other ways to engage with firms than going along to an event at your specific university.