General Discussion Thread 2020-21

[Jaysen]

I just read this online from an trainee/associate who wrote about their experience at Weil: "Partners appear to have almost a sadistic desire to make associates' life as miserable as possible. An email with a huge and boring assignment sent on Friday night is not an exception, it is the rule. Frankly, if you don't get one, make sure to refresh your browser, it is definitely in your mailbox already waiting for you. Weekends? What weekends? Weekends are just the days when you can do document review from the comfort of your own couch instead of super bad office chairs. Interesting work? Fascinating cases? What a joke. For the first two years, you will be doing doc review day in and day out with no end in sight. Culture? Culture is toxic. People pride themselves on having no life, no hobbies, no joy, and no sleep. Half the office is taking Adderal or Zanax, another half takes both. It is hard to judge them, you do what you got to do to survive. Expected work availability - 24/7. Don't you dare take a nap! "This is Weil, not some job in the Midwest” - might be an actual quote from a partner. You billed less than 50 hours last week? You are so lazy, here is another doc review project, make sure you keeping your numbers up. Oh, you billed more than 50 last week. LAZY! If you below 70, you still have time. Feedback? Typically none, but sometimes you will get screamed at for making the smallest mistake. Diversity? Haha. That's a great one. For Pride Month, they changed a logo to a rainbow. That’s enough, right? Right? Mentoring? What mentoring? I got a lunch with my mentor once, six other people were also present. Discussion evolved around TV shows that aired before I was born."

What are peoples thoughts on this @Jaysen ?

I wasn't at Weil that long, so I can't say I'm best able to give you an account of what the full training contract is like, but based on my experiences:

• Hours really depend on which department you're in and how busy it is. Some departments will require trainees to work very long hours and weekends at times, while others you could be out by 6/7.
• You won't just be doing doc review for two years and it's not a rule that'll you'll get assignments on a Friday - that's just false.
• Your experiences are very much influenced by what your supervisors are like.
• People work hard but they don't pride themselves in having no life.

The account is obviously a particularly bitter trainee/associate making a lot of exaggerated points, but I do think it's worth highlighting that being a trainee is not always that great. At these kinds of firms, you will be expected to work long hours and be available when you're needed. If you do end up with a terrible supervisor, then yes, your 6 months seat will be horrid. And firms have a long way to go in terms of diversity. I don't think any of this is that unique to Weil though; it'll be the same for similar firms.

It's also always worth exploring for yourself because, for many, the huge benefits that come with this kind of career > the costs. Plus it's also just so subjective and variable.

 

[Ben1897]

I was planning to either convert my spring vacation scheme into a TC ideally or, at the very least, have two weeks' work experience at a City law firm to put on my direct TC applications. Of course, the current situation means that the spring scheme has been postponed until (most likely) after most TC deadlines have passed.

With that in mind, think it's acceptable to write 'X firm - Spring Vacation Scheme (postponed)' in the work experience section of a direct TC application? If so, does it even add value to an application?

I imagine lots of others are in a similar situation - best of luck to everybody and I hope everything works out for you all

 

[Alice G]

I was planning to either convert my spring vacation scheme into a TC ideally or, at the very least, have two weeks' work experience at a City law firm to put on my direct TC applications. Of course, the current situation means that the spring scheme has been postponed until (most likely) after most TC deadlines have passed.

With that in mind, think it's acceptable to write 'X firm - Spring Vacation Scheme (postponed)' in the work experience section of a direct TC application? If so, does it even add value to an application?

I imagine lots of others are in a similar situation - best of luck to everybody and I hope everything works out for you all

I don’t see the harm in doing this at all I know people who have put on incoming vacs and work experiences before so I think it works in much the same way. I don’t think you have anything to lose in adding it and I think I would do so in the circumstances as well

 

[Jessica Booker]

I was planning to either convert my spring vacation scheme into a TC ideally or, at the very least, have two weeks' work experience at a City law firm to put on my direct TC applications. Of course, the current situation means that the spring scheme has been postponed until (most likely) after most TC deadlines have passed.

With that in mind, think it's acceptable to write 'X firm - Spring Vacation Scheme (postponed)' in the work experience section of a direct TC application? If so, does it even add value to an application?

I imagine lots of others are in a similar situation - best of luck to everybody and I hope everything works out for you all

I wouldn’t put it in a work experience section if it is at the cost of another more interesting entry that could show your experience and skills. I would put it in any extra information section

 

[Jamie 302]

Has anyone heard anything from Forsters since last week’s ‘sorry for the delay’ email? I’m sure they’re super busy with everything just wondering...

Hi,
Yes i got an email on Friday saying that they had cancelled this years VS

 

[Ifmhouse4]

Anyone heard from Arnold & Porter post application?

I haven’t yet no!

 

[Danube]

Hey guys, quick question - are summer TC applications in the same application as winter, spring, summer schemes and winter TCs?

 

[Alice G]

Hey guys, quick question - are summer TC applications in the same application as winter, spring, summer schemes and winter TCs?

Hi there,
Yeah that’s right. Recruitment cycles typically open Sept/Oct and then they can run right through to the July/August and then they start all over again. It’s essentially like an academic year from the time they typically open in Autumn (I say typically as I think A&O and maybe a couple others have actually opened their cycles from August now) hope this helps and is clear!

Whilst this is a typical rule of thumb, always do be sure to thoroughly check each firm’s website just to make absolutely sure.

 

[Jaysen]

Just adding a quick message to say we hope all of you are doing okay during this scary/uncertain period! If any of you reading this have worries/doubts, do feel free to post or vent here - we’re a welcoming community and we’ll do our best to help you!

 

[Ayo Babatunde]

I have just logged on to the Browne Jacobson application portal, literally about to submit my direct TC application, and it says the 'vacancy is closed', even though the deadline was not till the 1st April and I logged on yesterday and had no issues....is this the case for anyone else applying to Browne Jacobson for the direct TC? Please let me know if it is-I have put so much work into this application and am so gutted right now

 

[Helena]

Jaysen knows how important this forum has been to me. I want to say a big thank you to everyone on TCLA. It's been a lifeline. I have had my trials and tribulations, as we all have, with trying to get a TC and have come close a few times, learning and developing as I go. I had secured a VS for this summer which I was so excited about. I didn't mention it on the forum as I didn't know how I would cope if I didn't convert. I have since had some seriously bad news concerning my health which has now put it all in jeopardy. And of course Covid19 adds to my and everyone's anxieties.

I want to wish you all good luck as I may be silent for a while. Tomorrow I start chemotherapy. I will watch your progress from the sidelines and hope one day to join you again here. Take care and stay safe.

 

[Daniel Boden]

Jaysen knows how important this forum has been to me. I want to say a big thank you to everyone on TCLA. It's been a lifeline. I have had my trials and tribulations, as we all have, with trying to get a TC and have come close a few times, learning and developing as I go. I had secured a VS for this summer which I was so excited about. I didn't mention it on the forum as I didn't know how I would cope if I didn't convert. I have since had some seriously bad news concerning my health which has now put it all in jeopardy. And of course Covid19 adds to my and everyone's anxieties.

I want to wish you all good luck as I may be silent for a while. Tomorrow I start chemotherapy. I will watch your progress from the sidelines and hope one day to join you again here. Take care and stay safe.

Helena I'm so so terribly sorry to hear about the bad news regarding your health! News like that really puts getting a TC into perspective...

I wish you nothing but the best and am sending so many positive prayers your way! You will beat this - I have no doubt! I think I can speak for everyone on this forum when I say we are here for you in whatever way you may need

 

[Jaysen]

Jaysen knows how important this forum has been to me. I want to say a big thank you to everyone on TCLA. It's been a lifeline. I have had my trials and tribulations, as we all have, with trying to get a TC and have come close a few times, learning and developing as I go. I had secured a VS for this summer which I was so excited about. I didn't mention it on the forum as I didn't know how I would cope if I didn't convert. I have since had some seriously bad news concerning my health which has now put it all in jeopardy. And of course Covid19 adds to my and everyone's anxieties.

I want to wish you all good luck as I may be silent for a while. Tomorrow I start chemotherapy. I will watch your progress from the sidelines and hope one day to join you again here. Take care and stay safe.

You’ve been such a helpful voice in the forum right from the early days. So sorry to hear what you’re going through, really hope you get through it okay.

 

[Alice G]

Jaysen knows how important this forum has been to me. I want to say a big thank you to everyone on TCLA. It's been a lifeline. I have had my trials and tribulations, as we all have, with trying to get a TC and have come close a few times, learning and developing as I go. I had secured a VS for this summer which I was so excited about. I didn't mention it on the forum as I didn't know how I would cope if I didn't convert. I have since had some seriously bad news concerning my health which has now put it all in jeopardy. And of course Covid19 adds to my and everyone's anxieties.

I want to wish you all good luck as I may be silent for a while. Tomorrow I start chemotherapy. I will watch your progress from the sidelines and hope one day to join you again here. Take care and stay safe.

Helena, I’m shocked and saddened to hear about your health concerns. Though we have never met in person, you have been a tremendous friend to me on here over the past year. I desperately hope you are ok and I too know you will overcome this. I’m sending you love and best wishes and if I can do anything at all to help you please please let me know. I hope you can go ahead with your vac scheme and that it goes ahead as scheduled, I cannot think of anyone more deserving of a TC than you and I shall have everything crossed for you indefinitely.

 

[Changes]

Jaysen knows how important this forum has been to me. I want to say a big thank you to everyone on TCLA. It's been a lifeline. I have had my trials and tribulations, as we all have, with trying to get a TC and have come close a few times, learning and developing as I go. I had secured a VS for this summer which I was so excited about. I didn't mention it on the forum as I didn't know how I would cope if I didn't convert. I have since had some seriously bad news concerning my health which has now put it all in jeopardy. And of course Covid19 adds to my and everyone's anxieties.

I want to wish you all good luck as I may be silent for a while. Tomorrow I start chemotherapy. I will watch your progress from the sidelines and hope one day to join you again here. Take care and stay safe.

I'm so sorry to hear about this and hope you make a full recovery. Some things really put life into perspective. I'm not a recruiter but I would have thought an exceptional case like your would be a prime candidate for a deferral to a later year if that would work for you...but you probably have other priorities right now.

 

[Velikilawyer123]

Hey Jessica, given the current situation with COVID-19, many firms are postponing / cancelling VSs and ACs, and almost all are doing interviews online now. And the situation, from the looks of things, is only going to get worse in April, May, who knows beyond that. Do you think it's worth applying for a direct 2022 TC now, or would it be better to save the application for when the virus panic calms down a bit and firms start working normally again?

Are HR / grad rec teams even looking at applications at this time? And if not, do you think their backlog of applications will get looked at once the virus panic passes? I mean firms can have such a picking of applicants I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to ignore the backlog altogether and just focus on newly incoming applications.

 

[Deleted member 5185]

If anyone has heard from Browne Jacobson post online tests, please get in touch, thank you!

 

[ZH]

Has anyone heard from Shoosmiths - vac scheme?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey Jessica, given the current situation with COVID-19, many firms are postponing / cancelling VSs and ACs, and almost all are doing interviews online now. And the situation, from the looks of things, is only going to get worse in April, May, who knows beyond that. Do you think it's worth applying for a direct 2022 TC now, or would it be better to save the application for when the virus panic calms down a bit and firms start working normally again?

Are HR / grad rec teams even looking at applications at this time? And if not, do you think their backlog of applications will get looked at once the virus panic passes? I mean firms can have such a picking of applicants I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to ignore the backlog altogether and just focus on newly incoming applications.

Yes - if you don't apply, you can't be recruited - its as simple as that.

There is no one size fits all approach to whats happening.

Plenty of firms are looking at applications (if they are still recruiting for those vacancies). Some will hold off and will look at applications later in the cycle (but many would do that anyway!!)

There is absolutely no logic in ignoring a backlog of applications and only accepting new ones. If anything the better logic would just be to close applications and focus on the ones you have.

 

[Alice G]

Hey Jessica, given the current situation with COVID-19, many firms are postponing / cancelling VSs and ACs, and almost all are doing interviews online now. And the situation, from the looks of things, is only going to get worse in April, May, who knows beyond that. Do you think it's worth applying for a direct 2022 TC now, or would it be better to save the application for when the virus panic calms down a bit and firms start working normally again?

Are HR / grad rec teams even looking at applications at this time? And if not, do you think their backlog of applications will get looked at once the virus panic passes? I mean firms can have such a picking of applicants I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to ignore the backlog altogether and just focus on newly incoming applications.

I think that if you have the time to make an application then I would probably advise you to do so. I know that there is uncertainty but firms do still have to hire and people are still getting online AC invites so I think many HR teams are trying to continue as normal as best as they can.

Though I have never worked in grad rec or HR, I can confidently say that I do not believe that firms would cast aside applications in favour of new ones coming in when things have calmed down. Like I say, I imagine business is continuing as best as possible and things are more than likely ticking over behind the scenes in terms of app reviews and it may just mean that ACs and interviews are postponed or held online until circumstances become more certain. I have also seen many law firms share on Instagram that they are using video conferencing to keep in touch which is another slight reinforcement that teams are still working as usual, but just from home for the time being.