General Discussion Thread 2020-21

[Harvey]

The SRA are not part of the voluntary code of best recruitment practice anymore - they withdrew from it sometime ago (2015) - http://www.abbeysolicitors.co.uk/news/sra-withdraws-trainee-code-best-practice/. There is nothing in their own code that is about recruitment.

Even if they were still involved, it is a voluntary code. If a firm does not abide by it (in the instance talked about the individual is being given 3 weeks to accept a TC when the code says they should get until the 15 September), then they can't expect candidates to abide by it either.

Counter argument accepted

 

[Jessica Booker]

That's quite interesting. This was an explicit term in a friends TC offer at a rather large city firm. Maybe time to do employment law next year!

Non-competitor clauses are quite common, but typically post employment, not pre-employment. I have seen them in offer letters too, but even then they tend to be more of a "you need to disclose" rather than "you can't" condition.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I am but I feel that despite doing everything from networking, Commercial awareness reading and applying daily, nothing is coming from it. Feel so far away from my goal...

You will be a lot closer than a lot of other individuals. Are you the person who is qualified in another jurisdiction?

 

[Velikilawyer123]

Does anyone know how to improve in the written exercise? My feedback was that although my letter was good I calculated the maths wrong.
I knew this while I was doing it because they gave the original price but asked to use the fair price in calculation. Because i didn’t know how to calculate the fair price I used the original price to get to my answer. I know this was wrong but how would I improve - is there any practice examples on written exercises? I feel like my main area of improvement is definitely getting my head around what they’re asking :s
If anyone has any advice I’d really appreciate it, thank you!

Could you elaborate on this a bit? I've honestly never been asked to calculate anything in a law firm interview (be it for VS or TC).

 

[ComplianceChange]

Just had my JD interview... unsure of how it went. Very different to other firms app process

 

[Jessica Booker]

For anyone interested in the voluntary code, you can read it here: https://communities.lawsociety.org....cy/voluntary-code-of-recruitment-for-trainees

Here are just some of the things firms don't do that go against the code though:

• Opening applications for training contracts to candidates and allowing them to apply before their penultimate year of university (e.g. First-year fast-track programmes)
• Employers will respond to all applicants regardless of outcome.
• The offer shall not expire before 15 September in the applicant's final year of undergraduate study, or four weeks from the date the offer is made (whichever is later)
• An offer will not be withdrawn before the time limit for acceptance has expired. Students shall have the option to accept or reject the offer from the date the offer is made, but shall not be pressurised or penalised for waiting until the expiry date of the offer.

 

[Caitlin]

Struggling a bit with feedback - just got (email) feedback from my interview with Travers Smith, which stated that it was a very near miss and I fell down on expressing passion for law/TS. Fair enough, but the ENTIRE (I mean everything) interview consisted of 2 debates, one on veganism and one on expressing homophobic views work. I don't want to shoehorn in answers to questions I'm not asked, so finding it tricky to get my head around this? Any advice?

 

[Holly]

Struggling a bit with feedback - just got (email) feedback from my interview with Travers Smith, which stated that it was a very near miss and I fell down on expressing passion for law/TS. Fair enough, but the ENTIRE (I mean everything) interview consisted of 2 debates, one on veganism and one on expressing homophobic views work. I don't want to shoehorn in answers to questions I'm not asked, so finding it tricky to get my head around this? Any advice?

That sounds quite difficult. So they didn't ask why law / why TS at all? not even indirectly?

 

[W]

Struggling a bit with feedback - just got (email) feedback from my interview with Travers Smith, which stated that it was a very near miss and I fell down on expressing passion for law/TS. Fair enough, but the ENTIRE (I mean everything) interview consisted of 2 debates, one on veganism and one on expressing homophobic views work. I don't want to shoehorn in answers to questions I'm not asked, so finding it tricky to get my head around this? Any advice?

Probably wanted to see how you think on your feet when being presented with topics you haven’t prepared for. And maybe seeing how articulate you are in expressing such topics. So maybe try practicing with friends and family on topical things but in conversation

 

[Jessica Booker]

Struggling a bit with feedback - just got (email) feedback from my interview with Travers Smith, which stated that it was a very near miss and I fell down on expressing passion for law/TS. Fair enough, but the ENTIRE (I mean everything) interview consisted of 2 debates, one on veganism and one on expressing homophobic views work. I don't want to shoehorn in answers to questions I'm not asked, so finding it tricky to get my head around this? Any advice?

Were there any other elements of the day? For instance any informal networking sessions or the like?

Also, what awful questions to get into a debate about (sorry Travers people if you are reading this )

 

[M&ALawyer]

Struggling a bit with feedback - just got (email) feedback from my interview with Travers Smith, which stated that it was a very near miss and I fell down on expressing passion for law/TS. Fair enough, but the ENTIRE (I mean everything) interview consisted of 2 debates, one on veganism and one on expressing homophobic views work. I don't want to shoehorn in answers to questions I'm not asked, so finding it tricky to get my head around this? Any advice?

Can really relate to this in terms of feedback. I’ve had a couple of AC’s with non law questions, and have been unsuccessful. The feedback I got was that I ‘didn’t show enough enthusiasm for the firm/law’ yet I was asked questions unrelated to that firm or law - such as VAR in football, opinion on X football team owners, fashion trends etc etc - and no questions on why them.

As you said it can be really hard to make an explicit motivation to the firm when asked those questions. It’s enjoyable to have those types of conversations with the interviewer - but I feel it can be at the expense of applying your research/desire to join them!

 

[Pallatablelawyer]

Quick tip for those of you at university who encounter all these random non law question : Just go to debate events at your university. During my undergrad I was president of the black social and political society events at my university.. and we had loads of events where we had to talk about a range of topics. In a cool small setting where people could build form and give an opinion. If you attend those frequently it’ll give u the confidence to talk about it in like uno an interview setting. Just don’t swear lool. But I’m sure uni societies have something similar. At Essex we had a large big debate sort of event and smaller sort of debate events. I think it shows general awareness when you can talk about these issues. A lot of People live in such a small bubble that they never really question or wanna know anything about other stuff like cultures, sexuality.. etc. Those are connecting factors that could help you build relationships in the future. It sounds silly, but I’ve honestly connected with top professionals because of my opinions on things that have nothing to Do w the profession. Just my two cents.

 

[M&ALawyer]

Quick tip for those of you at university who encounter all these random non law question : Just go to debate events at your university. During my undergrad I was president of the black social and political society events at my university.. and we had loads of events where we had to talk about a range of topics. In a cool small setting where people could build form and give an opinion. If you attend those frequently it’ll give u the confidence to talk about it in like uno an interview setting. Just don’t swear lool. But I’m sure uni societies have something similar. At Essex we had a large big debate sort of event and smaller sort of debate events. I think it shows general awareness when you can talk about these issues. A lot of People live in such a small bubble that they never really question or wanna know anything about other stuff like cultures, sexuality.. etc. Those are connecting factors that could help you build relationships in the future. It sounds silly, but I’ve honestly connected with top professionals because of my opinions on things that have nothing to Do w the profession. Just my two cents.

Good advice! I think having some debatable non law questions can be a good thing in an interview - and being in a debating society would no doubt help.

I think that interviewers should however ask you about your motivations in the career and the firm though - as ultimately they’re making an investment to give you a TC from that, rather than your ability to debate X political/social issue.

Most firms do, but a few in my experience don’t which can lead to frustrating feedback!

 

[Caitlin]

That sounds quite difficult. So they didn't ask why law / why TS at all? not even indirectly?

Were there any other elements of the day? For instance any informal networking sessions or the like?

Also, what awful questions to get into a debate about (sorry Travers people if you are reading this )

No other elements to the day - literally sat down and went straight into the veganism debate, and then from that straight into the second debate! Was literally just that one interview, was not asked either question directly, and can't see they would've wanted me to shoehorn 'Why TS' into such debates!

 

[Jessica Booker]

No other elements to the day - literally sat down and went straight into the veganism debate, and then from that straight into the second debate! Was literally just that one interview, was not asked either question directly, and can't see they would've wanted me 'Why TS' into such debates!

Were you offered the opportunity to ask questions at the end? (I am literally grasping at straws here).

 

[Caitlin]

Were you offered the opportunity to ask questions at the end? (I am literally grasping at straws here).

Haha, yes I asked two questions - the interview is generally with one partner but I had a second sitting in (as he was 'in training' to be a grad rec partner) so I asked about what motivated them to become grad rec partners, and the second one was about the firm's success in increasing numbers of women at trainee/associate level, and the steps taken to translate this into increased numbers of women at partnership level. From this we had a *very* brief discussion, where I mentioned their flexible working and a few other policies that I thought were really good at helping women get to partnership level.

 

[csyn]

is anyone still waiting to hear from V&E or Stephenson Harwood post app?

Yes! Applied one day before the deadline and i'm starting to wonder if I should just call it a day and treat it as the lack of a reply as a rejection?

 

[M1999]

I just feel so demotivated by the constant rejection. I have done vac schemes before and in my current role am doing work of a trainee, but am just really struggling to nail down a TC, despite being told so many times that I am more than capable. Feel lost and helpless.

You have done so well to secure them vac schemes, a lot of people haven’t done that yet so please be proud of this amazing achievement.
It’s not easy but you’re obviously an amazing candidate, it will definitely happen. Take a week off- that always helps me

 

[tractor12]

I cannot believe I get to say these words, but I have been offered a training contract with Freshfields!!

I have always maintained that the right firm is out there for us all and that we will eventually make it over the line with them when the time is right, and I hope that I can reinforce how truthful this is through my experience! The setbacks and challenges are just paving the way for us to get that all-important "yes" right when you want it the most.

I will be forever grateful to you all for the kindness, encouragement and support you have given me. I also just want to say a special thank you to @Jaysen, @Raam, @Daniel Boden, @Maddie R and @Jessica Booker - you are such wonderful people and friends. I am so excited for this next chapter!

Insane!! Huge congratulations so well deserved

 

[Velikilawyer123]

I'm absolutely delighted to announce I've just been offered a place on Gibson Dunn's summer vacation scheme!

After 3 rejections post-AC this cycle, this really is the confidence boost I've needed

Hope others have similarly good news this week!

Congrats Daniel, terrific news!! Treat yourself today!

When did you send out your application? I'm still waiting for Gibson Dunn to get back to me, but I sent it quite late (a few days before deadline) so I've already written it off in my mind.