General Discussion Thread 2020-21

[ShelleyEds]

I’m currently studying the GDL (self funded). I have one vacation scheme lined up for the summer . I am going to be doing a couple of direct TC applications now as I am aware that the firm I have the VS with have only 18 TCs available, with 40 people lined up for their VSs and direct TC applicants as well, so am aware that my chance of success is small. I’m also coming up for for my GDL exams so don’t want to jeopardise doing well in these exams for extra applications.

My intention was to continue on with the LPC (self funded) in September if I am unsuccessful at securing a TC this summer. How will this position me with regard to getting a TC with the introduction of the SQE? Will firms still be giving TCs to people who are studying the LPC next year? Or would I be expected to start the SQE route to be able to get a TC?

@Jessica Booker, what are your thoughts on this?

 

[S87]

PFO from CMS..finally!!!
They filled all their positions

 

[Ravenclaw]

Hey everyone, I recently had the chance to chat informally with a Head of Grad Rec and Partner in charge of recruitment at a firm that is setting up a training contract program for the first time next year. They have both previously worked at multiple top American firms and a silver circle firm, so I figured their insights might be relevant as they relate to questions I've seen on here:

1. If you already have a TC secured, do not bother paralegaling unless you want to do it for financial reasons. They said paralegal experience will not make you perform better as a trainee or impress new bosses. I asked with regards to the summers in between the GDL & LPC and between the LPC & start of a TC, and they told me it would not help me in any way if I already had a TC at that point (though I definitely could do it to make some money).

2. Unless you have very specific reasons to, do not self-fund the LPC. Unfortunately it makes recruiters doubt your application for two reasons: firstly, why did no other firm want this person to the point where they are self-funding - "what's wrong with them?" They are essentially searching for your flaws rather than your strengths. Secondly, it makes them doubt your commitment to the firm you are applying to- "they would probably take any firm at this point". The difference with the GDL is that it is broader and can be used as a springboard for different careers, whereas the LPC could only be useful for a solicitor.

I'm sure none of this is definitive and lots of people will be exceptions to this! But for those that are considering either of these things, I thought it might be helpful to share

Thank you for sharing. Not sure why everyone is downvoting, you are simply sharing what you have heard from highly relevant people. Of course these view will not apply to every grad rec team however its interesting to consider.

 

[Harvey]

Hey everyone, I recently had the chance to chat informally with a Head of Grad Rec and Partner in charge of recruitment at a firm that is setting up a training contract program for the first time next year. They have both previously worked at multiple top American firms and a silver circle firm, so I figured their insights might be relevant as they relate to questions I've seen on here:

1. If you already have a TC secured, do not bother paralegaling unless you want to do it for financial reasons. They said paralegal experience will not make you perform better as a trainee or impress new bosses. I asked with regards to the summers in between the GDL & LPC and between the LPC & start of a TC, and they told me it would not help me in any way if I already had a TC at that point (though I definitely could do it to make some money).

2. Unless you have very specific reasons to, do not self-fund the LPC. Unfortunately it makes recruiters doubt your application for two reasons: firstly, why did no other firm want this person to the point where they are self-funding - "what's wrong with them?" They are essentially searching for your flaws rather than your strengths. Secondly, it makes them doubt your commitment to the firm you are applying to- "they would probably take any firm at this point". The difference with the GDL is that it is broader and can be used as a springboard for different careers, whereas the LPC could only be useful for a solicitor.

I'm sure none of this is definitive and lots of people will be exceptions to this! But for those that are considering either of these things, I thought it might be helpful to share

I actually think I know who said this....they told me the same thing a few years ago. It's harsh but it's kind of true.

 

[Changes]

Lewis Silkin sending invites for their spring workshop.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I’m currently studying the GDL (self funded). I have one vacation scheme lined up for the summer . I am going to be doing a couple of direct TC applications now as I am aware that the firm I have the VS with have only 18 TCs available, with 40 people lined up for their VSs and direct TC applicants as well, so am aware that my chance of success is small. I’m also coming up for for my GDL exams so don’t want to jeopardise doing well in these exams for extra applications.

My intention was to continue on with the LPC (self funded) in September if I am unsuccessful at securing a TC this summer. How will this position me with regard to getting a TC with the introduction of the SQE? Will firms still be giving TCs to people who are studying the LPC next year? Or would I be expected to start the SQE route to be able to get a TC?

@Jessica Booker, what are your thoughts on this?

your chances aren’t small.

40 places - say 75% of people are good enough, that’s 30 places, say 75% of people accept, that would be 22 places taken.... some firms have a much lower acceptance rate than 75%, and it’s not impossible for it the offer rate to be much lower too.

I don’t know enough about individual firm’s policies on converting to the SQE, but from those I have seen it seems most are looking to move with their 2023 intake and those I have seen will move everyone at the same time to ensure employees are employed in the same manner on the same.

you really need to speak to the firms you want to apply to though to get their views

 

[yahyee96]

Rejection from CMS. applied on last day so not surprised.

Only waiting on BCLP post app and Withers post interview now.

Thinking i might do a couple straight TC apps now.

 

[M1999]

Hey everyone, I recently had the chance to chat informally with a Head of Grad Rec and Partner in charge of recruitment at a firm that is setting up a training contract program for the first time next year. They have both previously worked at multiple top American firms and a silver circle firm, so I figured their insights might be relevant as they relate to questions I've seen on here:

1. If you already have a TC secured, do not bother paralegaling unless you want to do it for financial reasons. They said paralegal experience will not make you perform better as a trainee or impress new bosses. I asked with regards to the summers in between the GDL & LPC and between the LPC & start of a TC, and they told me it would not help me in any way if I already had a TC at that point (though I definitely could do it to make some money).

2. Unless you have very specific reasons to, do not self-fund the LPC. Unfortunately it makes recruiters doubt your application for two reasons: firstly, why did no other firm want this person to the point where they are self-funding - "what's wrong with them?" They are essentially searching for your flaws rather than your strengths. Secondly, it makes them doubt your commitment to the firm you are applying to- "they would probably take any firm at this point". The difference with the GDL is that it is broader and can be used as a springboard for different careers, whereas the LPC could only be useful for a solicitor.

I'm sure none of this is definitive and lots of people will be exceptions to this! But for those that are considering either of these things, I thought it might be helpful to share

Is self funding the GDL not looked down at all?

 

[M1999]

sorry for the questions but I am really confused about the whole sqe thing. If I do the gdl this year, will I still have to do sqe1 and sqe2 as opposed to the LPC next September? Because I’m thinking what’s the point in funding the GDL when I could wait a year and then just do the sqe? Or does the GDL skip you ahead to sqe2?

 

[Daniel Boden]

sorry for the questions but I am really confused about the whole sqe thing. If I do the gdl this year, will I still have to do sqe1 and sqe2 as opposed to the LPC next September? Because I’m thinking what’s the point in funding the GDL when I could wait a year and then just do the sqe? Or does the GDL skip you ahead to sqe2?

If you start the GDL in September 2020 you can do the LPC in September 2021. That's my plan - we'll be the last year to do it in the 'old way' I believe!

 

[HJK]

Lewis Silkin sending invites for their spring workshop.

Have you received one?

 

[seruzachan]

VS offer for Osborne Clarke!! Any tips for it would be much appreciated

 

[Changes]

Orrick have now cancelled their ACs/open days due to coronavirus, if anyone who was scheduled to attend hasn't yet seen the email.

Seems a bit OTT and against the advice of PHE but the hysteria continues. Though I guess no firm wants to be the first to infect a client...

 

[Jen E C]

Seems like a lot is being rescheduled/cancelled. Is there any indication of the likelihood of that trend continuing with the spring vacation schemes around the corner? Or what will happen if they are indeed cancelled?

 

[W]

If they can postpone/cancel an open day as a result of coronavirus it does make you wonder what precautions will take place for those that take candidates for 2 week and 3 week vacation schemes. And firms do like to mirror each other generally.

 

[Changes]

Seems like a lot is being rescheduled/cancelled. Is there any indication of the likelihood of that trend continuing with the spring vacation schemes around the corner? Or what will happen if they are indeed cancelled?

The coronavirus isn't going to be going anywhere in the next 6 months so if law firms are already cancelling events/ACs/open days then that's likely to get worse.

Hopefully people start to realise that life must go on and we can't be on lockdown for 6 months for a virus that, like the flu, is only going to severely impact those with pre-existing health issues...

 

[Daniel Boden]

VS offer for Osborne Clarke!! Any tips for it would be much appreciated

Big congrats!

 

[AH9891]

Seems like a lot is being rescheduled/cancelled. Is there any indication of the likelihood of that trend continuing with the spring vacation schemes around the corner? Or what will happen if they are indeed cancelled?

spoke to grad rec today about my spring scheme and was told it’s currently under review if it will go ahead or not. Since Easter is projected to be the peak I wouldn’t be surprised if schemes get cancelled, but grad rec can’t predict the future and they’ll do their best to come up with a solution for everyone affected, so I’d take it as going ahead until they tell us otherwise

 

[R203]

wait.. Orrick cancelled or postponed? That's so unfortunate if they totally cancelled them

 

[givemeareason]

Hey everyone, I recently had the chance to chat informally with a Head of Grad Rec and Partner in charge of recruitment at a firm that is setting up a training contract program for the first time next year. They have both previously worked at multiple top American firms and a silver circle firm, so I figured their insights might be relevant as they relate to questions I've seen on here:

1. If you already have a TC secured, do not bother paralegaling unless you want to do it for financial reasons. They said paralegal experience will not make you perform better as a trainee or impress new bosses. I asked with regards to the summers in between the GDL & LPC and between the LPC & start of a TC, and they told me it would not help me in any way if I already had a TC at that point (though I definitely could do it to make some money).

2. Unless you have very specific reasons to, do not self-fund the LPC. Unfortunately it makes recruiters doubt your application for two reasons: firstly, why did no other firm want this person to the point where they are self-funding - "what's wrong with them?" They are essentially searching for your flaws rather than your strengths. Secondly, it makes them doubt your commitment to the firm you are applying to- "they would probably take any firm at this point". The difference with the GDL is that it is broader and can be used as a springboard for different careers, whereas the LPC could only be useful for a solicitor.

I'm sure none of this is definitive and lots of people will be exceptions to this! But for those that are considering either of these things, I thought it might be helpful to share

1. Tbh 99% of people that already have a training contract and paralegal are literally only doing it for the money and to bridge the time before they start their TC. So thanks for stating the obvious.

2. I know this is going to be controversial and trigger the people on this forum that have/are self funding the LPC but it's kinda true. All the people that I know that are self funding have been rejected multiple cycles and are getting desperate so they self fund which I think is a really bad idea. Not to say those that are getting rejected year after year won't make it. Plenty of success stories on this forum of people that have made it after multiple application cycles. However, people need to be realistic and face the truth. Although I really like the supportive environment of this forum, people need to be realistic with their future options and prospects.

Not everyone will share this view but sometimes you have to put yourself in the shoes of a recruiter, especially at firms where competition is fierce and places are limited. I can so see why some firms may think "what's wrong with them", especially if the individual has done multiple vacation schemes and cycles and fails to covert any of them into TC offers.