General Discussion Thread 2020-21

[Pallatablelawyer]

That is not quite true. As a training contract is two years and won't start until 2-3 months after someone graduates/completes the LPC, where the post-study work visa is a maximum of two years, it wouldn't cover a whole training contract.

You would basically need your training contract to start before your course officially ended.

So a firm would need to still get a Tier 2 visa for you. It will be easier for them to do this as of January 2021, but it is their choice to do so and if they are saying they won't get a visa for you, then unfortunately that is their stance on the matter.

I understand this but say I get a TC for September 2022.. I am on an LLM now, and I decide to go home and i come back in September 2021 .. LPC for 9 months ( you will be a tier 4 student) LPC 9 months .. finishes in June.. your leave to remain expires at the end of august.. you can apply for a post-study at the very earliest within 3 months before you are due to arrive.. that covers that .. you have to apply for the two year post-study visa and if the Lpc is 2 years from september 2022 to September 24.. shouldnt that theoretically be covered ?

 

[Jessica Booker]

I understand this but say I get a TC for September 2022.. I am on an LLM now, and I decide to go home and i come back in September 2021 .. LPC for 9 months ( you will be a tier 4 student) LPC 9 months .. finishes in June.. your leave to remain expires at the end of august.. you can apply for a post-study at the very earliest within 3 months before you are due to arrive.. that covers that .. you have to apply for the two year post-study visa and if the Lpc is 2 years from september 2022 to September 24.. shouldnt that theoretically be covered ?

Unfortunately not.... your post-study visa starts immediately after your course ends not after the period of leave to remain (which no longer exists).

It is why very few firms had Trainees on post study visas pre 2009, they were all on Tier 2 visa back then.

The old issue also used to be that the LPC was not a masters course level (back in 2009) so was not eligible for the two year visa stay anyway. Although this has been resolved now because of student finance and many LPC courses have an optional additional module to make it up to a masters level, this may be an issue with the new SQE prep courses.

 

[Pallatablelawyer]

Unfortunately not.... your post-study visa starts immediately after your course ends not after the period of leave to remain (which no longer exists).

It is why very few firms had Trainees on post study visas pre 2009, they were all on Tier 2 visa back then.

The old issue also used to be that the LPC was not a masters course level (back in 2009) so was not eligible for the two year visa stay anyway. Although this has been resolved now because of student finance and many LPC courses have an optional additional module to make it up to a masters level, this may be an issue with the new SQE prep courses.

So are you saying that the new rules are saying there will no longer be those 4 months or 6 months? Because as far as I am aware i havent heard anything about the scrapping of that. Thats what i mean when i say leave to remain. There is always a gap to allow people to apply in the UK. If they are scrapping that then that would just be very weird.

 

[Pallatablelawyer]

So are you saying that the new rules are saying there will no longer be those 4 months or 6 months? Because as far as I am aware i havent heard anything about the scrapping of that. Thats what i mean when i say leave to remain. There is always a gap to allow people to apply in the UK. If they are scrapping that then that would just be very weird.

You usually get 4 months or 6 months with the completion of an undergraduate or psotgraduate course .. like it is baked into your visa.. eg my student undergrad was still oct even though my course finished in june.. this is what i meant by leave to remain btw.

 

[Lalis]

Are you sure? I know someone who's starting their TC there soon, and I am pretty sure they're an international student :/

Yes, I thought it's because of COVID as someone mentioned before that Akin Gump canceled TC for this year

 

[Jessica Booker]

So are you saying that the new rules are saying there will no longer be those 4 months or 6 months? Because as far as I am aware i havent heard anything about the scrapping of that. Thats what i mean when i say leave to remain. There is always a gap to allow people to apply in the UK. If they are scrapping that then that would just be very weird.

you won’t be allowed 4/6 months and then 2 years on top of that. You will either apply for the graduate route before your Tier 4 is up (they are suggesting even before your course finishes) or not apply for it and only get your period of leave if you don’t apply for it). If you applied into your period of leave after your course finished, then are likely to back date the two year period so it starts once your course ended, not when your Tier 4 expires.

All the processes are still be to written though - so there are a lot of unknowns that no one can guarantee right now. Because of that, most employers who have a two year graduate programme are not going to rely on a post student visa. If it was 18 months or less, then it’s much more likely.

The last time there were post-study visas, you didn’t even apply, you just got it tied into your student visa.

Unless you are doing a topped up masters course, the LPC and potential SQE prep courses wouldn’t make you eligible for a two year post-study visa either...

 

[2019grad31]

Hello, anyone heard back from Harbottle & Lewis or done the first stage interview?

Haven’t heard anything either!

 

[Pallatablelawyer]

you won’t be allowed 4/6 months and then 2 years on top of that. You will either apply for the graduate route before your Tier 4 is up (they are suggesting even before your course finishes) or not apply for it and only get your period of leave if you don’t apply for it). If you applied into your period of leave after your course finished, then are likely to back date the two year period so it starts once your course ended, not when your Tier 4 expires.

All the processes are still be to written though - so there are a lot of unknowns that no one can guarantee right now. Because of that, most employers who have a two year graduate programme are not going to rely on a post student visa. If it was 18 months or less, then it’s much more likely.

The last time there were post-study visas, you didn’t even apply, you just got it tied into your student visa.

Unless you are doing a topped up masters course, the LPC and potential SQE prep courses wouldn’t make you eligible for a two year post-study visa either...

Very informative. You are right there are still alot of unknowns. But from what I have seen you definitely have to apply. The facts sheet has it as a route you have to actually apply for. Which means it could possibly be possible with current visa rules which will give you the 4 months that you currently have on normal tier 4 visas. However you are right it is currently unclear if doing the LPC will make you eligible. However, doing the LPC LLM should because it would be a masters degree. For firms that make their trainees take it as a masters, I am pretty sure it would make you eligible. Infact the fact sheet stipulated that as long as you start an undegraduate or masters degree in the 2021/21 session, you will definitely be eligible for it. But then again, alot of unknowns and it will all be solved when it is introduced properly in the summer of 2021.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Very informative. You are right there are still alot of unknowns. But from what I have seen you definitely have to apply. The facts sheet has it as a route you have to actually apply for. Which means it could possibly be possible with current visa rules which will give you the 4 months that you currently have on normal tier 4 visas. However you are right it is currently unclear if doing the LPC will make you eligible. However, doing the LPC LLM should because it would be a masters degree. For firms that make their trainees take it as a masters, I am pretty sure it would make you eligible. Infact the fact sheet stipulated that as long as you start an undegraduate or masters degree in the 2021/21 session, you will definitely be eligible for it. But then again, alot of unknowns and it will all be solved when it is introduced properly in the summer of 2021.

yes - you definitely have to apply. The application process is fairly straight forward though. It’s only the health premium that is why people are having to apply this time around.

I expect it to be very similar to the old post study visa. Most firms will just apply for the Tier 2 as its is a lot less risky and it is attached to them as the employer (as sponsor) rather than the individual.

 

[Nat]

Here is my AC experience at BCLP in case it helps anyone.

We started with a drafting exercise which was simple - we had to read different materials and write a letter to a colleague explaining key points. If I remember well it was about different airlines and their offerings and we had to summarise their strengths and weaknesses - e.g. airline x had a recent press scandal, would this affect the profitability/profile of the company? (we used a laptop for this).

Next, we did a role play exercise - I met with an associate and I had to summarise the findings that I drafted earlier in the drafting exercise. He pretended he was under time pressure so I had to be clear and concise. He also asked me questions about the materials I read so make sure you read them carefully.

Then we had a negotiation group exercise which tested my commercial acumen. We had to agree head of terms between a mobile manufacturer and a supplier. No specific legal knowledge is needed for this. Have a look online for practice tests so you know what to expect.

Finally, the interview was very straight forward and basic. Discussed work experience, mix of competencies and why BCLP, role of trainee etc. It felt more like a chat than an interview - the partner was super chilled.

After the AC, they provided great feedback. My understanding is that they score all four sessions and if you pass them you get through. I passed all of them apart from the group exercise - I got marked down for missing a couple of points in the discussion and for being quiet in the beginning. During the feedback call, they told me what they are looking for in each of the exercises. You can see this below:

Drafting exercise:

• intellectual rigour
• commercial awareness
• clarity

Role play exercise:

• People skills and interacting with others
• Articulate using arguments and be coherent
• Create a positive and professional impression

Negotiation exercise:

• Client relationship
• Collaboration
• People skills
• Get your points across and collaborate

Interview:

• good understanding of role of trainee - and tasks would entail
• have a good logical thought process

 

[E]

I submitted my TC applications on portals that can't allow you to update your application (I've received my LPC results and want to update my application) unlike apply4law. Just wondering, should I email GR about this?

 

[W]

Here is my AC experience at BCLP in case it helps anyone.

We started with a drafting exercise which was simple - we had to read different materials and write a letter to a colleague explaining key points. If I remember well it was about different airlines and their offerings and we had to summarise their strengths and weaknesses - e.g. airline x had a recent press scandal, would this affect the profitability/profile of the company? (we used a laptop for this).

Next, we did a role play exercise - I met with an associate and I had to summarise the findings that I drafted earlier in the drafting exercise. He pretended he was under time pressure so I had to be clear and concise. He also asked me questions about the materials I read so make sure you read them carefully.

Then we had a negotiation group exercise which tested my commercial acumen. We had to agree head of terms between a mobile manufacturer and a supplier. No specific legal knowledge is needed for this. Have a look online for practice tests so you know what to expect.

Finally, the interview was very straight forward and basic. Discussed work experience, mix of competencies and why BCLP, role of trainee etc. It felt more like a chat than an interview - the partner was super chilled.

After the AC, they provided great feedback. My understanding is that they score all four sessions and if you pass them you get through. I passed all of them apart from the group exercise - I got marked down for missing a couple of points in the discussion and for being quiet in the beginning. During the feedback call, they told me what they are looking for in each of the exercises. You can see this below:

Drafting exercise:

• intellectual rigour
• commercial awareness
• clarity

Role play exercise:

• People skills and interacting with others
• Articulate using arguments and be coherent
• Create a positive and professional impression

Negotiation exercise:

• Client relationship
• Collaboration
• People skills
• Get your points across and collaborate

Interview:

• good understanding of role of trainee - and tasks would entail
• have a good logical thought process

Thanks for this, was this for direct or VS? And if for direct, when did you hear back?

 

[Nat]

Thanks for this, was this for direct or VS? And if for direct, when did you hear back?

Hey, this was last year for a VS.

 

[Ricky]

Here is my AC experience at BCLP in case it helps anyone.

We started with a drafting exercise which was simple - we had to read different materials and write a letter to a colleague explaining key points. If I remember well it was about different airlines and their offerings and we had to summarise their strengths and weaknesses - e.g. airline x had a recent press scandal, would this affect the profitability/profile of the company? (we used a laptop for this).

AC's have changed for this cycle, they have removed the drafting and replaced it with a mark-up exercise. You still have a case study and presentation, group negotiation and then interview.

 

[W]

AC's have changed for this cycle, they have removed the drafting and replaced it with a mark-up exercise. You still have a case study and presentation, group negotiation and then interview.

Thanks for the update - did you apply for a direct TC there?

 

[julie1995]

hey guys, i just got rejected a training contract offer following a vac scheme. this was basically my last chance to get a training contract this year and i feel very down and low and i dont know how to go about starting this process all over again. this isn't my first or second cycle, and i know im not alone. does anyone have any tips or advice on how to move forward after continuous rejection? i am 24, and im doing an accelerated track and i just wonder what my options are given SQE and all that. thank you guys.

PART 1

I'm in the same position as you as well as many other people!

Last week, I did a VS and received no TC offer. I had that awful sinking feeling. I was hoping that this would be it! But by the end of the day, many factors and people are involved in making that decision and can go either way.

Day after, I woke up with a positive, can-do mindset. I told myself ‘I didn't get a TC offer, and I don’t know when I’ll get one - but what I do know is that I WILL finish this cycle with a lot more than what I had last year'. Last year, I failed at the application stage/ psychometric tests. This year I was invited to several ACs and secured a VS. The progress made means I have a chance. I’m not giving up; neither should you.

In addition:

1) Be kind to yourself: You're entitled to feel sad and frustrated. We're human - that's ok. Give yourself time to properly process it. I took the weekend off. I walked in the countryside, did some photography and baking in the evening - decided to take on some Chloe Ting challenges (died in the process). We’re constantly on a racetrack working from one deadline to the next. Stop. Take a deep breath and have a moment to yourself. You deserve it.

2) Reflect and be proud of your achievements: A huge part to my positive mindset was reflecting and actually realising how far I've come. When you compare what you've achieved and how much you've changed, despite no TC offer, you still gained something from the process. Realising that comforted me. To get a VS, you had to be picked from hundreds of candidates. The fact that you managed to get this far is a testament to yourself! You have what it takes - don't doubt yourself!

Everything we do presents a valuable learning opportunity. Reflect on feedback and how you can improve going forward. The one thing which you have control of is yourself. Use this to your advantage to put yourself in a stronger position. Alongside this, reach out to future trainees for advice. I've set up a call today with a future trainee from DLA Piper who was more than happy to oblige! These people are willing to help as they’ve been through the same process!

 

[julie1995]

PART 1

I'm in the same position as you as well as many other people!

Last week, I did a VS and received no TC offer. I had that awful sinking feeling. I was hoping that this would be it! But by the end of the day, many factors and people are involved in making that decision and can go either way.

Day after, I woke up with a positive, can-do mindset. I told myself ‘I didn't get a TC offer, and I don’t know when I’ll get one - but what I do know is that I WILL finish this cycle with a lot more than what I had last year'. Last year, I failed at the application stage/ psychometric tests. This year I was invited to several ACs and secured a VS. The progress made means I have a chance. I’m not giving up; neither should you.

In addition:

1) Be kind to yourself: You're entitled to feel sad and frustrated. We're human - that's ok. Give yourself time to properly process it. I took the weekend off. I walked in the countryside, did some photography and baking in the evening - decided to take on some Chloe Ting challenges (died in the process). We’re constantly on a racetrack working from one deadline to the next. Stop. Take a deep breath and have a moment to yourself. You deserve it.

2) Reflect and be proud of your achievements: A huge part to my positive mindset was reflecting and actually realising how far I've come. When you compare what you've achieved and how much you've changed, despite no TC offer, you still gained something from the process. Realising that comforted me. To get a VS, you had to be picked from hundreds of candidates. The fact that you managed to get this far is a testament to yourself! You have what it takes - don't doubt yourself!

Everything we do presents a valuable learning opportunity. Reflect on feedback and how you can improve going forward. The one thing which you have control of is yourself. Use this to your advantage to put yourself in a stronger position. Alongside this, reach out to future trainees for advice. I've set up a call today with a future trainee from DLA Piper who was more than happy to oblige! These people are willing to help as they’ve been through the same process!

PART 2/ FINAL

3) Don't compare: We are all guilty of this. LinkedIn does not help - a corporate Instagram as someone mentioned. It's hard not to feel like you're falling behind others. I'm still working on this myself. My supervisor told me that the average age lawyers qualify is 29. This shows that everyone reaches their goals at different points in their life. For my supervisor, it took a few cycles before he secured a TC. During this, he gained experience that gave him skills which he still uses today. It takes perseverance, hard work and patience to see results. These three things will never let you down.

4) YOU'RE JUST ON TIME: It's self-explanatory through a poem I found (it's not cheesy I promise). It really helped to bring things into perspective and look at my journey differently. The key part is:


Everyone in this world works based on their time zone.

People around you might seem to be ahead of you,

and some might seem to be behind you.

But everyone is running their own race, in their own time.

Do not envy them and do not mock them.

They are in their time zone, and you are in yours.

Life is about waiting for the right moment to act.

So, relax.

You're not late.

You're not early.

You're very much on time.

The person who will pick yourself up is YOU. It's YOU who will decide on how to bounce back from rejection. Do your past, present and future self a favour and be the best version of yourself. Ask yourself if what you're doing today is getting you close to where you want to be tomorrow. It starts from the mindset - your actions will follow. A quote my dad says to me is: I think I can, I know I can, I can. I'm sure your past successes prove that.

Keep going! Believe in yourself! You've got this!

 

[LuNo]

Was wondering if anyone has heard back from Morgan Lewis post-telephone interview? Thanks

Hey! I haven’t but after my interview Grad Rec said end of this week / beginning of the next - so we might just have to wait! Hope your interview went well

 

[acceleratedlaw]

PART 2/ FINAL

3) Don't compare: We are all guilty of this. LinkedIn does not help - a corporate Instagram as someone mentioned. It's hard not to feel like you're falling behind others. I'm still working on this myself. My supervisor told me that the average age lawyers qualify is 29. This shows that everyone reaches their goals at different points in their life. For my supervisor, it took a few cycles before he secured a TC. During this, he gained experience that gave him skills which he still uses today. It takes perseverance, hard work and patience to see results. These three things will never let you down.

4) YOU'RE JUST ON TIME: It's self-explanatory through a poem I found (it's not cheesy I promise). It really helped to bring things into perspective and look at my journey differently. The key part is:


Everyone in this world works based on their time zone.

People around you might seem to be ahead of you,

and some might seem to be behind you.

But everyone is running their own race, in their own time.

Do not envy them and do not mock them.

They are in their time zone, and you are in yours.

Life is about waiting for the right moment to act.

So, relax.

You're not late.

You're not early.

You're very much on time.

The person who will pick yourself up is YOU. It's YOU who will decide on how to bounce back from rejection. Do your past, present and future self a favour and be the best version of yourself. Ask yourself if what you're doing today is getting you close to where you want to be tomorrow. It starts from the mindset - your actions will follow. A quote my dad says to me is: I think I can, I know I can, I can. I'm sure your past successes prove that.

Keep going! Believe in yourself! You've got this!

thank you so much julie, honestly reading this and understanding that everyone has their own timeline is so imperative. 29 makes a lot of sense and a lot of this process is hard work and a bit of luck, so gotta keep going and working hard till one day, luck is on ur side.

 

[smith363]

Just FYI: If anyone just got an email from the government legal scheme asking them to complete the situational judgement test and you have already taken it just ignore the email. I had already done it so I rang the recruitment team and they said it had been sent out in error to nearly everyone including those who have already completed it.