Ask me anything: Trainee at Morrison & Foerster

[Jaysen]

Hi all,

Each week we run an ask me anything thread featuring a trainee/associate/partner at a City law firm. Today I'd like to welcome Rayhaan Vankalwala, a current trainee at US firm Morrison & Foerster. He has kindly offered to answer any of your questions this week, so feel free to ask him anything about applications/life as a trainee etc.

I'll kick us off: Rayhaan, can you tell us a bit more about Morrison & Foerster?

 

[Matt96]

Hi Rayhaan what are your hours like?

 

[jess889]

Hey! Is it what you expected?

 

[Jaysen]

Hang on guys, he will be joining us soon

 

[Coralin96]

Hey Rayhaan thanks for doing this! What seat are you in at the moment? What's the worst thing about the job? Also did you do other vac schemes?

 

[Rayhaan V]

Hi everyone!

Thanks to Jaysen and the Corporate Law Academy and Jaysen for having me - I hope I can provide a useful insight into my experiences both as a student looking for a training contract and as a trainee at Morrison & Foerster. Please feel free to ask anything you like about Morrison & Foerster, what I do, or the application process in general. Believe me when I say I know how time consuming, and stress-inducing it can be, so I am absolutely here to help.

Also if you feel I haven't really answered your questions in any of my replies - don't be afraid to badger me! I know it can be frustrating when you don't quite get the relevant answer, so just let me know and we can try and delve a bit deeper.

Cheers,
Rayhaan

 

[Rayhaan V]

Hi Rayhaan what are your hours like?

Hey Matt, great to hear from you. My hours really do vary a lot if I'm honest. The nature of working at a US firm means that hours can get long, probably longer than at UK firms, but it certainly isn't like that all the time - it depends on how busy things are and whether there is anything really pressing like a deal completion going on.

But not to evade your question, I would say that my hours range from 9-7 when it's fairly quiet, to 9 - to the wee hours of the morning when it's busy. How often it's 'busy' depends on what department you're in honestly - I am in Technology Transactions at the moment which has been fairly up and down, but I would say at an average my hours have probably been about 9-9 during my first six months! As I say though, it really does depend from department to department; some people have had quieter experiences, others much busier.

 

[Rayhaan V]

Hey! Is it what you expected?

Hey Jess! It's hard to answer that - I'm not really sure what I was expecting to be perfectly honest - it really is impossible to know. What I will say is that the things that Morrison & Foerster sells itself on in terms of training: lots of responsibility, interesting work, and a really good culture, have all rung true, at least in my experience. Obviously I expected it to be hard work, and it certainly has been, and there have definitely been bad days, as there are with any job. But I'm sure most people expect hard work entering into this profession, so that's nothing new.

While you can never really prepare yourself for the ins and outs of daily life of your training contract until you start, I think it's important to understand the 'type' of firm you're going to (UK v US; small trainee intake v large), because this will give you at least an indication as to what your training experience might be like.

I think the reality though is that a training contract probably won't be as good as your best case scenario, and won't be anywhere near as bad as your worst nightmare. It will fall somewhere in between, with moments that you love and those you find really challenging.

 

[FreddyS]

Hey Matt, great to hear from you. My hours really do vary a lot if I'm honest. The nature of working at a US firm means that hours can get long, probably longer than at UK firms, but it certainly isn't like that all the time - it depends on how busy things are and whether there is anything really pressing like a deal completion going on.

But not to evade your question, I would say that my hours range from 9-7 when it's fairly quiet, to 9 - to the wee hours of the morning when it's busy. How often it's 'busy' depends on what department you're in honestly - I am in Technology Transactions at the moment which has been fairly up and down, but I would say at an average my hours have probably been about 9-9 during my first six months! As I say though, it really does depend from department to department; some people have had quieter experiences, others much busier.

Hey Rayhaan, thank you for being so honest with your answers (with regard to your hours!), I don't see that too often! I noticed you said your hours are probably longer than UK firms - I assume you're including the magic circle? Also with that in mind - was it hard to adjust to working life?

 

[piedpiper]

Hey Matt, great to hear from you. My hours really do vary a lot if I'm honest. The nature of working at a US firm means that hours can get long, probably longer than at UK firms, but it certainly isn't like that all the time - it depends on how busy things are and whether there is anything really pressing like a deal completion going on.

But not to evade your question, I would say that my hours range from 9-7 when it's fairly quiet, to 9 - to the wee hours of the morning when it's busy. How often it's 'busy' depends on what department you're in honestly - I am in Technology Transactions at the moment which has been fairly up and down, but I would say at an average my hours have probably been about 9-9 during my first six months! As I say though, it really does depend from department to department; some people have had quieter experiences, others much busier.

Hi Rayhaan, I've never heard of a department called 'Technology Transactions' before - what does that involve? That sounds really interesting - I used to run a business teaching students how to code (in the US).

 

[Rayhaan V]

Hey Rayhaan thanks for doing this! What seat are you in at the moment? What's the worst thing about the job? Also did you do other vac schemes?

Hi Coralin, thanks for getting in touch. I'm currently in the Technology Transactions Group, and our remit is pretty broad. In London, a lot of what we do is help clients navigate regulation to make sure they aren't falling foul of the law. We might draft their website/app terms and conditions, or privacy policies, for example. We also do a lot of commercial contracts work, and things like IP licensing agreements.

The worst thing about the job... that's a tough one, and is also completely personal depending on your own personality. Personally, I find it hard to gauge the landscape of personalities at a firm (or working environment). It's really easy to feel a bit nervous about coming across annoying, or bothersome to other associates or partners, particularly at first! Part of working in an office involves being able to read when people are too busy to chat etc. The reality of course is that they're just normal people that are happy to help and talk for the most part, but it can be hard to realise that when you're new and everything seems a bit intense. In terms of what I find hard now, I suppose it can be quite unpredictable in terms of when you're gong to be busy, which makes planning things a bit tricky (but weirdly that's a minor gripe that you sort of adjust to quite quickly).

Yes, I have done vacation schemes elsewhere, I think they can be really important. So much of whether you enjoy a job depends on your working environment, and a vac scheme gives you the chance to see at least a glimpse of a firm's culture to see if you'd fit in and whether you like the people you might be working with for however many years...

 

[Rayhaan V]

Hey Rayhaan, thank you for being so honest with your answers (with regard to your hours!), I don't see that too often! I noticed you said your hours are probably longer than UK firms - I assume you're including the magic circle? Also with that in mind - was it hard to adjust to working life?

No problem at all - as a disclaimer I stress again that everyone's experience is different! Yeah I think for the most part I would include the magic circle, but as I say because so much comes down to personal experience I suppose I shouldn't generalise too much.

In terms of working life, I found it okay - as I mention in another answer I found it tricky to become really comfortable with everyone around the firm (I'm personally quite introverted so it took me a while), but in terms of the actual work and the hours I didn't mind that at all, I think it's a question of going in as openly and with as much enthusiasm as possible, and you'll be fine. That being said, it's inevitable that you will be tired a fair amount - everyone has their own ways of dealing with that, it's simply a reality of the job. I do have to say, though, that if you have the right people around you and you can have a laugh every now and then, the fatigue isn't quite as tough to deal with, and when you have trainees around you who are all in the same boat, that helps a lot.

 

[Rayhaan V]

Hi Rayhaan, I've never heard of a department called 'Technology Transactions' before - what does that involve? That sounds really interesting - I used to run a business teaching students how to code (in the US).

Hi there - I'm just going to say here what I said in an earlier answer if that's alright: our remit is pretty broad. In London, a lot of what we do is help clients navigate regulation to make sure they aren't falling foul of the law. We might draft their website/app terms and conditions, or privacy policies, for example. We also do a lot of commercial contracts work, and things like IP licensing agreements.

In terms of your previous experience, I've no doubt that will come in handy - whether you're in Tech Transactions or something else, a knowledge of what clients actually do will hold you in good stead, and will give you an insight into some of their concerns that other lawyers simply might not have!

 

[FreddyS]

No problem at all - as a disclaimer I stress again that everyone's experience is different! Yeah I think for the most part I would include the magic circle, but as I say because so much comes down to personal experience I suppose I shouldn't generalise too much.

In terms of working life, I found it okay - as I mention in another answer I found it tricky to become really comfortable with everyone around the firm (I'm personally quite introverted so it took me a while), but in terms of the actual work and the hours I didn't mind that at all, I think it's a question of going in as openly and with as much enthusiasm as possible, and you'll be fine. That being said, it's inevitable that you will be tired a fair amount - everyone has their own ways of dealing with that, it's simply a reality of the job. I do have to say, though, that if you have the right people around you and you can have a laugh every now and then, the fatigue isn't quite as tough to deal with, and when you have trainees around you who are all in the same boat, that helps a lot.

Awesome thanks, I bet having good people around you makes such a big difference. I noticed you said in another post that you did other schemes - can I ask which ones?

 

[Sofia]

Hey Jess! It's hard to answer that - I'm not really sure what I was expecting to be perfectly honest - it really is impossible to know. What I will say is that the things that Morrison & Foerster sells itself on in terms of training: lots of responsibility, interesting work, and a really good culture, have all rung true, at least in my experience. Obviously I expected it to be hard work, and it certainly has been, and there have definitely been bad days, as there are with any job. But I'm sure most people expect hard work entering into this profession, so that's nothing new.

While you can never really prepare yourself for the ins and outs of daily life of your training contract until you start, I think it's important to understand the 'type' of firm you're going to (UK v US; small trainee intake v large), because this will give you at least an indication as to what your training experience might be like.

I think the reality though is that a training contract probably won't be as good as your best case scenario, and won't be anywhere near as bad as your worst nightmare. It will fall somewhere in between, with moments that you love and those you find really challenging.

Hey this is a bit irrelevant, but I just wanted to say you write really well

 

[Rayhaan V]

Awesome thanks, I bet having good people around you makes such a big difference. I noticed you said in another post that you did other schemes - can I ask which ones?

Sure - I did one at Skadden and one at Mishcon De Reya - extremely different firms but both great in their own way!

 

[Rayhaan V]

Hey this is a bit irrelevant, but I just wanted to say you write really well

That is incredibly kind of you to say, thank you!

 

[Campbell44]

Hi everyone!

Thanks to Jaysen and the Corporate Law Academy and Jaysen for having me - I hope I can provide a useful insight into my experiences both as a student looking for a training contract and as a trainee at Morrison & Foerster. Please feel free to ask anything you like about Morrison & Foerster, what I do, or the application process in general. Believe me when I say I know how time consuming, and stress-inducing it can be, so I am absolutely here to help.

Also if you feel I haven't really answered your questions in any of my replies - don't be afraid to badger me! I know it can be frustrating when you don't quite get the relevant answer, so just let me know and we can try and delve a bit deeper.

Cheers,
Rayhaan

Hi Rayhaan!

I thought I'd make the most of you being here this week so I have a few questions (if you don't mind!).

1. What's the latest you've ever worked? Do you have sleeping pods in your offices?
2. I noticed on the Chambers Guide that there aren't many trainees at Morrison & Foerster, would you say you like that?
3. I also saw that you did a few vacation schemes, including Skadden, what do you think made you stand out?

Sorry for the many questions, I hope that's alright!

 

[Rayhaan V]

Hi Rayhaan!

I thought I'd make the most of you being here this week so I have a few questions (if you don't mind!).

1. What's the latest you've ever worked? Do you have sleeping pods in your offices?
2. I noticed on the Chambers Guide that there aren't many trainees at Morrison & Foerster, would you say you like that?
3. I also saw that you did a few vacation schemes, including Skadden, what do you think made you stand out?

Sorry for the many questions, I hope that's alright!

That's alright - no need to apologise at all - I'll just go through these in sequence:

1. Okay, I'm going to have to caveat this one a lot. I have worked through the night ('til 7.30 the next morning) BUT it was a very specific occasion where a deal had to close on extremely short notice and there was still a lot left to be done. This isn't something that's typical AT ALL- and actually there was a weird sense of camaraderie which was sort of nice. We don't have sleeping pods at the office, which I always think is a good sign!
2. You're right, we only have 4 trainees per intake. I do like it, I definitely get on better when there's a small, close knit group of trainees, and I genuinely have gotten a lot of responsibility. I know sometimes these things sound like clichés but in my case it is absolutely true. This is how I feel most comfortable though, and different people may not enjoy that tighter environment. It really is up to you and there's no right or wrong way.
3. Do you mean what made me stand out so that I could get those vacation schemes? That's a good question and honestly not one that I've thought about too much! I personally think you have to do the bare minimum that will be expected by everyone i.e. know the firm you're applying to, know your CV inside out, all the usual stuff you see (and that is explained on this site very eloquently) and then the last element really is just how you get on with your interviewer on the day! If you can establish a connection, and most importantly show that you're someone that people will actually want to work with, you won't go far wrong. I think being as well rounded as you can is also helpful, having a wide range of interests and hobbies that you genuinely care about is always a good thing.

Hope that was helpful!

 

[Campbell44]

That's alright - no need to apologise at all - I'll just go through these in sequence:

1. Okay, I'm going to have to caveat this one a lot. I have worked through the night ('til 7.30 the next morning) BUT it was a very specific occasion where a deal had to close on extremely short notice and there was still a lot left to be done. This isn't something that's typical AT ALL- and actually there was a weird sense of camaraderie which was sort of nice. We don't have sleeping pods at the office, which I always think is a good sign!
2. You're right, we only have 4 trainees per intake. I do like it, I definitely get on better when there's a small, close knit group of trainees, and I genuinely have gotten a lot of responsibility. I know sometimes these things sound like clichés but in my case it is absolutely true. This is how I feel most comfortable though, and different people may not enjoy that tighter environment. It really is up to you and there's no right or wrong way.
3. Do you mean what made me stand out so that I could get those vacation schemes? That's a good question and honestly not one that I've thought about too much! I personally think you have to do the bare minimum that will be expected by everyone i.e. know the firm you're applying to, know your CV inside out, all the usual stuff you see (and that is explained on this site very eloquently) and then the last element really is just how you get on with your interviewer on the day! If you can establish a connection, and most importantly show that you're someone that people will actually want to work with, you won't go far wrong. I think being as well rounded as you can is also helpful, having a wide range of interests and hobbies that you genuinely care about is always a good thing.

Hope that was helpful!

Thank you for your responses. One all-nighter is less than I was expecting so thats good. Did they let you leave a bit early the next day? And yes I meant about standing out, I see - how did you go about researching law firms? I think my applications are not specific enough.