Ask a future MC Trainee (international applicant) anything

[CarinaH]

Hi everyone,

I hope you're having a lovely weekend. I received so many kind messages after my post a few days ago that I had received a TC offer from my dream firm. I honestly never thought I would be able to say this out load.

Just to give you a bit of a background, I'm an international applicant and come from a really low socio-economic background. It took me 10 years after graduating high school to feel like I was in a position to start applying to law firms, so it's been quite a journey for me. One of the challenges I faced once I actually started applying was that most firms work with Rare (which does such an amazing job at levelling the playing field), but unfortunately doesn't give international applicants from similar backgrounds as much room to reflect their similar circumstances. Some firms have been amazing at addressing this, while for others I really struggled to submit an application that adequately reflected my journey.

Anyway, I don't want to bore you with the details of this, but I thought that there may be other international applicants or someone who is facing other barriers to entry, so if you have any questions, please send me a message or ask on the thread and I'll try my best to help where I can.

Thank you,
Carina

 

[Jaysen]

This is such a brilliant idea Carina, thank you!

 

[Sonal Priya]

Hi Carina,
Congratulations! I too am an international applicant and have few questions for you if you don't mind answering.
Firstly, I would like to know is there anything specific or extra that international applicants need to do or keep in mind while applying for a TC?
Secondly, Vacation Schemes for many international applicants is not a viable opportunity due to visa restrictions. In this case mostly people have to apply to direct TCs. Do you have any advice on targeting particular firms for this?Any other specific details that one must keep in mind for direct TC?
Lastly, Any advice on how to find specific USP of the firm? Do the internet resources and graduate recruitment websites make provide enough information about the firm's cultures? Any specific website you would recommend?
I look forward to your response.
Regards,

 

[CarinaH]

Hi Sonal,

Firstly, I would like to know is there anything specific or extra that international applicants need to do or keep in mind while applying for a TC?

I don't think there is anything extra that needs to be done per se, but I found it helpful to use being an international applicant as a strength. For me personally it taught me a lot of skills, speaking multiple languages, having relocated to different countries, adjusting and having developed greater people/communication skills due to living with people from different cultures. So I always approached my applications from that angle. My main advice would be to use it to your benefit to differentiate yourself rather than a barrier.

My other point would on international grades. The text box never allowed for enough words for me to explain the grading system in a way that made sense. I spoke to graduate recruitment about it and was told to e-mail it separately. One thing I'd recommend is having someone who doesn't know your grading system read through your explanation and comparison to the UK system and have them explain it back to you. Because I knew my grading system what I had initially made complete sense to me, but was actually quite difficult to understand for someone who wasn't as familiar with it as I was. I think this was one of the reasons why I was rejected at application stage over and over again during my first cycle.

Secondly, Vacation Schemes for many international applicants is not a viable opportunity due to visa restrictions. In this case mostly people have to apply to direct TCs. Do you have any advice on targeting particular firms for this?Any other specific details that one must keep in mind for direct TC?

As far as I know, some of the international firms do sponsor visas, so it is always worth looking into that. In addition, depending on where you're from, these firms offer clerkships. Off the top of my head, I know that HSF has an Indian clerkship, Linklaters has an Indian and Australian clerkship and I'm sure there are others. I'm not sure how these work, but they basically fly you to London to do your vac scheme in their UK office and sponsor your visa etc. If you're not physically in the UK yet, there's also always the option of doing an internship at one of their international offices, alliance or best friend firms to give you some legal work experience or insight into the firm.

I have to say that I wasn't successful with direct TC applications and the reason given was that my motivation for law wasn't clear due to my CV. I know there are people on this forum who were successful with direct TC applications. If you've studied law or have already done your GDL. I decided to self-fund my GDL and I obviously don't know if it was a coincidence, but I got 9 interviews out of 10 applications. The more clear you can make your commitment to law, the better.

If applying for direct TCs is your only option, I'd either research the firm's recruitment process online, see if there's a law fair or reach out to graduate recruitment directly. I didn't apply to American firms as they are not the right fit for me, but from my understanding most only recruit from VSs. Some MC firms predominantly recruit from their VS (Linklaters), while (I think I read somewhere that) Clifford Chance has just cancelled all their VSs for the next year, so will be relying on direct TC applications. I'd always recommend to do quality over quantity applications, so I would start with firms that don't put as much weight on VSs. That is not to say though that you shouldn't apply to firms that predominantly recruit from their VSs if you have your heart set on one of them. It may just mean that there is a longer wait where they fill places via vacation schemes first and then take it from there.

The standard of your overall application and what is expected of you during the assessment centre will be much higher for direct TC applications. Particularly in terms of commercial awareness and your motivations for law and the firm your answers need to be spot on. I think that's quite important to keep in mind.

The other one is to apply early, particularly as so many firms review applications on a rolling basis.

Lastly, Any advice on how to find specific USP of the firm? Do the internet resources and graduate recruitment websites make provide enough information about the firm's cultures? Any specific website you would recommend?

I used the firms website, which is usually a good place to start. Other resources I looked at where The Lawyer, Chambers, Legal Cheek, Lex 100, lawcareers.net, LinkedIn (to reach out to people from the firm) and events hosted by my university. The best way to learn for me was by talking to people who have been with the firm. My uni hosted a few Q&As last year with trainees from all kinds of firms and that was a great way to network. I believe that one of the trainees I spoke to is the reason why I made it through the AC. He gave me a lot of resources to prepare for the case study, which is what I was most worried about. He was also in the same seat I was in during my vac scheme, so it is a small world and people can be your greatest resource.

With this, I'd also say to always be careful to not just tell the firm how amazing they are or cite back their rankings, but instead say why this is relevant to you and why that makes you want to work there. For every sentence you write when you talk about why x firm, ask yourself 'but why' and if you get to the end of your paragraph and can still ask that question, you know that your answer needs to be amended.

This is just my view and I'm sure some applicants would disagree with some of the above, but I hope this is helpful. If you have any follow up questions, let me know !

 

[skizzle]

Hi Sonal,



I don't think there is anything extra that needs to be done per se, but I found it helpful to use being an international applicant as a strength. For me personally it taught me a lot of skills, speaking multiple languages, having relocated to different countries, adjusting and having developed greater people/communication skills due to living with people from different cultures. So I always approached my applications from that angle. My main advice would be to use it to your benefit to differentiate yourself rather than a barrier.

My other point would on international grades. The text box never allowed for enough words for me to explain the grading system in a way that made sense. I spoke to graduate recruitment about it and was told to e-mail it separately. One thing I'd recommend is having someone who doesn't know your grading system read through your explanation and comparison to the UK system and have them explain it back to you. Because I knew my grading system what I had initially made complete sense to me, but was actually quite difficult to understand for someone who wasn't as familiar with it as I was. I think this was one of the reasons why I was rejected at application stage over and over again during my first cycle.



As far as I know, some of the international firms do sponsor visas, so it is always worth looking into that. In addition, depending on where you're from, these firms offer clerkships. Off the top of my head, I know that HSF has an Indian clerkship, Linklaters has an Indian and Australian clerkship and I'm sure there are others. I'm not sure how these work, but they basically fly you to London to do your vac scheme in their UK office and sponsor your visa etc. If you're not physically in the UK yet, there's also always the option of doing an internship at one of their international offices, alliance or best friend firms to give you some legal work experience or insight into the firm.

I have to say that I wasn't successful with direct TC applications and the reason given was that my motivation for law wasn't clear due to my CV. I know there are people on this forum who were successful with direct TC applications. If you've studied law or have already done your GDL. I decided to self-fund my GDL and I obviously don't know if it was a coincidence, but I got 9 interviews out of 10 applications. The more clear you can make your commitment to law, the better.

If applying for direct TCs is your only option, I'd either research the firm's recruitment process online, see if there's a law fair or reach out to graduate recruitment directly. I didn't apply to American firms as they are not the right fit for me, but from my understanding most only recruit from VSs. Some MC firms predominantly recruit from their VS (Linklaters), while (I think I read somewhere that) Clifford Chance has just cancelled all their VSs for the next year, so will be relying on direct TC applications. I'd always recommend to do quality over quantity applications, so I would start with firms that don't put as much weight on VSs. That is not to say though that you shouldn't apply to firms that predominantly recruit from their VSs if you have your heart set on one of them. It may just mean that there is a longer wait where they fill places via vacation schemes first and then take it from there.

The standard of your overall application and what is expected of you during the assessment centre will be much higher for direct TC applications. Particularly in terms of commercial awareness and your motivations for law and the firm your answers need to be spot on. I think that's quite important to keep in mind.

The other one is to apply early, particularly as so many firms review applications on a rolling basis.



I used the firms website, which is usually a good place to start. Other resources I looked at where The Lawyer, Chambers, Legal Cheek, Lex 100, lawcareers.net, LinkedIn (to reach out to people from the firm) and events hosted by my university. The best way to learn for me was by talking to people who have been with the firm. My uni hosted a few Q&As last year with trainees from all kinds of firms and that was a great way to network. I believe that one of the trainees I spoke to is the reason why I made it through the AC. He gave me a lot of resources to prepare for the case study, which is what I was most worried about. He was also in the same seat I was in during my vac scheme, so it is a small world and people can be your greatest resource.

With this, I'd also say to always be careful to not just tell the firm how amazing they are or cite back their rankings, but instead say why this is relevant to you and why that makes you want to work there. For every sentence you write when you talk about why x firm, ask yourself 'but why' and if you get to the end of your paragraph and can still ask that question, you know that your answer needs to be amended.

This is just my view and I'm sure some applicants would disagree with some of the above, but I hope this is helpful. If you have any follow up questions, let me know !

Hi Carina, thank you for the thread, this is extremely helpful. I was wondering whether you could offer any insight into how you prepared for your case study, specifically any of the resources that you used? Thank you

 

[CarinaH]

Hi Carina, thank you for the thread, this is extremely helpful. I was wondering whether you could offer any insight into how you prepared for your case study, specifically any of the resources that you used? Thank you

Hey,

I used the Commercial Law Handbook by Jake Schogger. If you read and understand that you’ll have all the foundations to make it through the case study.

I supplemented it with All you need to know about the City by Christopher Stoakes. Other than that just general commercial awareness prep like reading the FT and looking up terminology I’m not familiar with. I also work in an investment bank, so have used my colleagues a lot to ask about anything that came up in their conversations that I wasn’t familiar with.

Anatomy of a deal by A&O on YT is also pretty good to understand the basics of a deal itself.

hope that helps!

 

[BiancaR]

Hi Carina,
Congratulations on your TC and thank you so much for starting this thread! As an international student, it's really exciting and reassuring to know that other international applicants have succeeded in getting their dream training contracts- it makes this whole journey feel a little bit more possible!

I have a couple of questions if you happen to have extra time!
First, how did you represent your academic background on applications? I've been struggling with how to represent my high school-grades/standardised exams because I don't have a traditional A-level equivalent. Would you recommend sending a short explanation to grad recruitment after each application?

Secondly, do you have any recommendations for making international legal experience relevant to UK law? I'm not really sure how to explain how my legal experience in my home country translates into a different legal context.

Finally, how did you go about researching firms that accept/sponsor international applicants?

My apologies for asking so many questions and thank you so much again for offering your advice.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Just to add into this thread, as of 2021 the Tier 2 visa process is about to get a lot easier. Given this, many more firms will be able to sponsor visa should they want to, whether that is for someone transferring from a student visa or even someone who is coming from outside of the U.K.

This doesn’t mean firms will sponsor - there can be concerns around the costs (not just the visa fees, but actually the admin/legal fees associated with processing each visa), and obviously firms may not have the certificate of sponsorship needed to apply for a visa. However, generally I would expect there to be more opportunities for international students who need a visa rather than less.

 

[CamilleL]

Hi Carina,

Congratulations on your TC and thank you for taking the time to share your experience!

I am also an international student from France.

I have the same issue regarding my grades. The French grading system is entirely different and explaining it is always a challenge. Even expectations from universities and employers are not the same.

Can you please explain how you approached this issue when you were applying?
I would like to have a better idea of what I should or shouldn't say.

Also, while applying, did you feel like firms were more interested in your GDL grades than the international ones?

Best,
Camille

 

[CarinaH]

Hi Carina,
Congratulations on your TC and thank you so much for starting this thread! As an international student, it's really exciting and reassuring to know that other international applicants have succeeded in getting their dream training contracts- it makes this whole journey feel a little bit more possible!

I have a couple of questions if you happen to have extra time!
First, how did you represent your academic background on applications? I've been struggling with how to represent my high school-grades/standardised exams because I don't have a traditional A-level equivalent. Would you recommend sending a short explanation to grad recruitment after each application?

Secondly, do you have any recommendations for making international legal experience relevant to UK law? I'm not really sure how to explain how my legal experience in my home country translates into a different legal context.

Finally, how did you go about researching firms that accept/sponsor international applicants?

My apologies for asking so many questions and thank you so much again for offering your advice.

Hi Bianca,

Thank you so much, I still can't quite believe it.

In terms of my academic background I did the text box never allowed for enough words for me to explain the grading system in a way that made sense. I spoke to graduate recruitment about it and was told to e-mail it separately, so I would speak to the firms you plan to apply to about their preferences. One thing I'd recommend is having someone who doesn't know your grading system read through your explanation and comparison to the UK system and have them explain it back to you. Because I knew my grading system, so what I wrote made complete sense to me, but was actually quite difficult to understand for someone who wasn't as familiar with it as I was. I think this was one of the reasons why I was rejected at application stage over and over again during my first cycle. I explained the whole system because there was no way to convert my grades in a way that made sense.

I don't think there are borders when it comes to legal experience, because all the skills you will have learned will very likely be directly transferrable (detail oriented work, drafting, research...). The main thing in this context they will ask is why you want to work in the UK rather than in your home country, so I would focus on having a really good answer for that.

For my research, I would reach out to graduate recruitment. You could simply ask them if they sponsor visas in the same e-mail you are asking about sending your grades across. Like Jessica said above, there may be changes to sponsorship, so it is easiest to simply confirm with the firms directly.

I hope that helps

 

[CarinaH]

Hi Carina,

Congratulations on your TC and thank you for taking the time to share your experience!

I am also an international student from France.

I have the same issue regarding my grades. The French grading system is entirely different and explaining it is always a challenge. Even expectations from universities and employers are not the same.

Can you please explain how you approached this issue when you were applying?
I would like to have a better idea of what I should or shouldn't say.

Also, while applying, did you feel like firms were more interested in your GDL grades than the international ones?

Best,
Camille

Hi Camille,

Thank you so much.

The German grading system for the Abitur is from 15-1, with 1 being the lowest and 15 the highest. We also don't chose 3 subjects per se, we have majors, but I had to do 11 subjects until I graduated. So I explained how we had to choose your majors (there is the requirement of having to do a language and a science for your major). I would make sure this is quite in-depth. Don't send an essay, but equally don't try to make it fit into the text box. Check with the firm, but I was always told to e-mail it to them. I would not convert grades as there are just too many things that can go wrong and if you're like me and have 11 subjects, simply converting it also undermines how much work you had to do to make it through all the subjects, including some that you may not have wanted to do, but were mandatory. I think it's really important to highlight if any of your subjects were mandatory. Since you can choose your A-Levels, presumable you would choose things you are most interested in/best at. While I for example had to do subjects like biology, physics and geography even though they had no relevance to what I wanted to do because they were mandatory.

I did not have my GDL grades when I started applying. I started the course in September around the same time I started my applications, so by the time I got my results in February, I had done all the applications I wanted to.

Kind regards,
Carina

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Carina,

Congratulations on your TC and thank you for taking the time to share your experience!

I am also an international student from France.

I have the same issue regarding my grades. The French grading system is entirely different and explaining it is always a challenge. Even expectations from universities and employers are not the same.

Can you please explain how you approached this issue when you were applying?
I would like to have a better idea of what I should or shouldn't say.

Also, while applying, did you feel like firms were more interested in your GDL grades than the international ones?

Best,
Camille

The French grading system is seen enough for most recruiters to know roughly what they are looking for (even if that is different between firms/universities). It won’t need heavily explaining.

 

[Asmee DC]

Hi Carina,

Congrats! I am also an international student who just secured a 2022 TC with an international firm!! I was just wondering about visa situations. Since my TC starts in 2022, I will have a gap year before or after completing the LPC. What are you doing in terms of this? The firm stated that it would be easier for to complete the LPC in 2021-2022 prior to starting my TC. However, I wanted to complete the LPC in 2020-2021, then look for a paralegal position. That is essentially one of the only ways I can stay in the UK if I'm on a Tier 4 visa now. What are your thoughts on this?

Thank you

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Carina,

Congrats! I am also an international student who just secured a 2022 TC with an international firm!! I was just wondering about visa situations. Since my TC starts in 2022, I will have a gap year before or after completing the LPC. What are you doing in terms of this? The firm stated that it would be easier for to complete the LPC in 2021-2022 prior to starting my TC. However, I wanted to complete the LPC in 2020-2021, then look for a paralegal position. That is essentially one of the only ways I can stay in the UK if I'm on a Tier 4 visa now. What are your thoughts on this?

Thank you

Sorry to cut in here - but thought it would be good for me to explain from an HR perspective.

It generally is better to do the LPC just before your TC. Are you studying in the UK at the moment and if so do you graduate next year?

 

[D]

Hey Carina. Simply here to show my support and congratulate you on your achievements. Well done, and best of luck for the future!

 

[Asmee DC]

Sorry to cut in here - but thought it would be good for me to explain from an HR perspective.

It generally is better to do the LPC just before your TC. Are you studying in the UK at the moment and if so do you graduate next year?

Hi Jessica,

Yes the HR from the firm said it is better to do the LPC before I start my TC but I have sent an email outlining my specific circumstances and am waiting for a reply. I just graduated from the LLB for Graduates program this year and my Tier 4 visa is set to expire in October 2020. I have already signed a new lease to rent a flat because I thought I would be allowed to start the LPC in 2020 and then I am able to extend my Tier 4 visa. I'm uncertain on what will happen because it is a really short amount of time to secure another job (i.e I would want to paralegal) and given the salary threshold, I'm not sure if a paralegal role would suit that. What are your suggestions?

 

[CarinaH]

Hey Carina. Simply here to show my support and congratulate you on your achievements. Well done, and best of luck for the future!

Thank you so much, really appreciate it and same to you!

 

[CarinaH]

Hi Jessica,

Yes the HR from the firm said it is better to do the LPC before I start my TC but I have sent an email outlining my specific circumstances and am waiting for a reply. I just graduated from the LLB for Graduates program this year and my Tier 4 visa is set to expire in October 2020. I have already signed a new lease to rent a flat because I thought I would be allowed to start the LPC in 2020 and then I am able to extend my Tier 4 visa. I'm uncertain on what will happen because it is a really short amount of time to secure another job (i.e I would want to paralegal) and given the salary threshold, I'm not sure if a paralegal role would suit that. What are your suggestions?

Just to second what Jessica said, we have also been told to do our LPC right before the TC as we should be doing it together with the everyone we will start our TC with. Maybe they will review it on a case-by-case basis? I will keep my fingers crossed. I work in a bank doing compliance, which is maybe not as great as paralegalling in terms of the work, but will likely pay much better, so might be worth looking into it in case your visa depends on it.

 

[Asmee DC]

Just to second what Jessica said, we have also been told to do our LPC right before the TC as we should be doing it together with the everyone we will start our TC with. Maybe they will review it on a case-by-case basis? I will keep my fingers crossed. I work in a bank doing compliance, which is maybe not as great as paralegalling in terms of the work, but will likely pay much better, so might be worth looking into it in case your visa depends on it.

Ah okay, thank you. If I may ask, how did you come across your current job in banking? I would really appreciate any resources you could share about searching for a job as an international student.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

Yes the HR from the firm said it is better to do the LPC before I start my TC but I have sent an email outlining my specific circumstances and am waiting for a reply. I just graduated from the LLB for Graduates program this year and my Tier 4 visa is set to expire in October 2020. I have already signed a new lease to rent a flat because I thought I would be allowed to start the LPC in 2020 and then I am able to extend my Tier 4 visa. I'm uncertain on what will happen because it is a really short amount of time to secure another job (i.e I would want to paralegal) and given the salary threshold, I'm not sure if a paralegal role would suit that. What are your suggestions?

You have done all that you can really. It is up to the firm whether to decide on this for you or not unfortunately. They can say no, but typically do weigh things up on a case by case basis.

The issue is the LPC won’t necessarily give you the right to stay in the U.K as it is not a masters level course (unless you are doing a top up course) and therefore you are likely to return home between 2021-22, and therefore the work permit process for your TC becomes a little more complicated and expensive.

If the firm is not offering you a masters level LPC, one option would be to top it up to a masters level course of your own accord. You would then have the ability to apply for a post-graduate visa which would last up to two years, which would at least cover you for 2021-22 when your TC starts.

But that would still be dependent on your firm agreeing to take the LPC this year. Unfortunately when accepting a TC it is always important to iron these type of details out before accepting, rather than assuming. Given the current market and visa requirements, it would be very tricky to find a job that will sponsor you before October of this year.