Ask a future MC Trainee (international applicant) anything

[tractor12]

Sorry to cut in here - but thought it would be good for me to explain from an HR perspective.

It generally is better to do the LPC just before your TC. Are you studying in the UK at the moment and if so do you graduate next year?

Out of interest, is it generally better to do the LPC just before the TC for everyone - even if the firm has no preference as to what modules/provider you choose?

 

[Asmee DC]

You have done all that you can really. It is up to the firm whether to decide on this for you or not unfortunately. They can say no, but typically do weigh things up on a case by case basis.

The issue is the LPC won’t necessarily give you the right to stay in the U.K as it is not a masters level course (unless you are doing a top up course) and therefore you are likely to return home between 2021-22, and therefore the work permit process for your TC becomes a little more complicated and expensive.

If the firm is not offering you a masters level LPC, one option would be to top it up to a masters level course of your own accord. You would then have the ability to apply for a post-graduate visa which would last up to two years, which would at least cover you for 2021-22 when your TC starts.

I would be completing the LPC LLM programme as the firm also thinks it's best for me to do this. Regarding the post-graduate visa which lasts up to 2 years, am I allowed to state that I would only need it for up to a year? I was under the impression that it can only be granted for 2 years, in which case I'm not sure what the process would be to switch the visa to Tier 2 in September 2022 when my TC starts, as the visa would be from 2021-2023? A little confused about this.

Also in terms of doing the LPC in 2021 - isn't the SQE going to replace the LPC then? Or would I still have the option to complete the LPC since the firm would be funding it?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Out of interest, is it generally better to do the LPC just before the TC for everyone - even if the firm has no preference as to what modules/provider you choose?

Generally yes - having fresh knowledge of the LPC is better than having to remember it from over 12 months ago.

Most firms also want people to do the LPC straight before a TC, as they are sponsoring people on the course and so they are putting people through the LPC in a cohort. It generally helps people get to know one another and also help with ”keep warm” activities between getting the offer and starting the TC.

It’s slightly different if you choose to self fund the LPC.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I would be completing the LPC LLM programme as the firm also thinks it's best for me to do this. Regarding the post-graduate visa which lasts up to 2 years, am I allowed to state that I would only need it for up to a year? I was under the impression that it can only be granted for 2 years, in which case I'm not sure what the process would be to switch the visa to Tier 2 in September 2022 when my TC starts, as the visa would be from 2021-2023? A little confused about this.

Also in terms of doing the LPC in 2021 - isn't the SQE going to replace the LPC then? Or would I still have the option to complete the LPC since the firm would be funding it?

The visa is a standard 2 years... your Tier 2 would just superseded/replace it when it is needed. The firm would apply for the Tier 2 before your TC started as a post-study visa wouldn’t necessarily cover your whole training contract anyway. It’s too risky to apply part way through a TC, so firms just apply for it at the start, meaning you can stay on as a NQ too on the same visa.

No, the LPC route is going to be available for at least another 7 years and will just be phased out. As some firms are putting future trainees through the GDL this September, they will move on to the LPC in 2021. I would expect firms to phase out the LPC from 2022 onwards, as that’s when there’s not going to be too many non-law grads available who can still do the LPC.

 

[Asmee DC]

The visa is a standard 2 years... your Tier 2 would just superseded/replace it when it is needed. The firm would apply for the Tier 2 before your TC started as a post-study visa wouldn’t necessarily cover your whole training contract anyway. It’s too risky to apply part way through a TC, so firms just apply for it at the start, meaning you can stay on as a NQ too on the same visa.

No, the LPC route is going to be available for at least another 7 years and will just be phased out. As some firms are putting future trainees through the GDL this September, they will move on to the LPC in 2021. I would expect firms to phase out the LPC from 2022 onwards.

Ah okay, that is really reassuring to hear. Thank you! I guess I will just wait for a reply from the firm. I did not bring up the graduate route (2 years visa) as I didn't know the logistics behind it, but I can bring up when they reply. Really appreciate your insight

 

[Jessica Booker]

Ah okay, that is really reassuring to hear. Thank you! I guess I will just wait for a reply from the firm. I did not bring up the graduate route (2 years visa) as I didn't know the logistics behind it, but I can bring up when they reply. Really appreciate your insight

The only clear reason I can see them saying no is if they were hoping that your post-grad visa would cover your TC. I know some firms are looking at that as an option, and potentially moving their trainee intake start dates to allow for it. Budgets might be another reason (eg they don’t have the budget to put you through the LPC this year, but do next year).

 

[syw]

Hi Carina,

I have a question in relation to COVID. If i am applying to a firm that does not appear to have drastically been effected by covid through their trainee intake/delays etc, and have undertaken extensive deals during this time is that something worth mentioning, specifically in regard to why X firm?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Carina,

I have a question in relation to COVID. If i am applying to a firm that does not appear to have drastically been effected by covid through their trainee intake/delays etc, and have undertaken extensive deals during this time is that something worth mentioning, specifically in regard to why X firm?

The stability of a firm during a recession is a legitimate reason that’s worth mentioning alongside other reasons.

 

[CarinaH]

Hi Carina,

I have a question in relation to COVID. If i am applying to a firm that does not appear to have drastically been effected by covid through their trainee intake/delays etc, and have undertaken extensive deals during this time is that something worth mentioning, specifically in regard to why X firm?

yes absolutely. Some firms will certainly be better hedged against risks such as covid.

 

[futuretraineesolicitor]

@Jessica Booker Ma'am, what would you so about the Indian education system of Class 12? Is that familiar like the French grading system that you mentioned?

Question 2- I am Indian and to be honest, Diversity and Inclusion is a big determinant for me, the biggest firms (MC) look the most international and diverse from the outside, is it right to go with this assumption? Training, support, perks etc. everything comes later for me , I really need to fit in the office and find more people from a variety of backgrounds. Is it something that I can use in my application, although this statement would narrow down the options to the MC firms but is this a good way to narrow down?

Thank you.

 

[CarinaH]

@Jessica Booker Ma'am, what would you so about the Indian education system of Class 12? Is that familiar like the French grading system that you mentioned?

Question 2- I am Indian and to be honest, Diversity and Inclusion is a big determinant for me, the biggest firms (MC) look the most international and diverse from the outside, is it right to go with this assumption? Training, support, perks etc. everything comes later for me , I really need to fit in the office and find more people from a variety of backgrounds. Is it something that I can use in my application, although this statement would narrow down the options to the MC firms but is this a good way to narrow down?

Thank you.

I didn’t apply to all MC firms, so I cannot speak for all of them, but I know that Clifford Chance and Linklaters have ethnic and gender targets and if you read about their mission statements on their respective websites, you should be able to find plenty on it. I also didn’t apply to the Us firms because I don’t think it’s for me, so I can’t speak for those. I’d also recommend looking into HSF. I’m not sure if you’re based in India or the UK, but they offer an Indian clerkship where they fly you over to London to do a VS here. Linklaters has something similar I think!

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker Ma'am, what would you so about the Indian education system of Class 12? Is that familiar like the French grading system that you mentioned?

Question 2- I am Indian and to be honest, Diversity and Inclusion is a big determinant for me, the biggest firms (MC) look the most international and diverse from the outside, is it right to go with this assumption? Training, support, perks etc. everything comes later for me , I really need to fit in the office and find more people from a variety of backgrounds. Is it something that I can use in my application, although this statement would narrow down the options to the MC firms but is this a good way to narrow down?

Thank you.

No - the Indian education system is very different to the French system, but it is a system that recruiters will see enough to know what they are looking for.

I wouldn’t assume that MC firms are the most diverse. Having worked in three of them, they are diverse workforces is many ways - it was one of the things that I liked about working in them. But I think it does a complete disservice to other firms to assume that MC firms are the most diverse. I would suspect some firms are proportionately more diverse in some strands of diversity than the MC firms. It really depends on what strands of diversity are important to you.

You can find some diversity stats on Legal Cheek’s most list:

https://www.legalcheek.com/the-firms-most-list/

You can talk about the make up of the firm in terms of demographics and why that is important to you. However, like any “cultural” aspects, you need to balance this out with why you want to do the day job with that particular firm too.

 

[futuretraineesolicitor]

Thank you Carina, but the problem with the India Internship programmes is that they have 3-4 spots in one cycle. I like being optimistic but not so much lol

 

[futuretraineesolicitor]

Thank you @Jessica Booker for your answer!

 

[Sayaono]

Hi everyone,

I hope you're having a lovely weekend. I received so many kind messages after my post a few days ago that I had received a TC offer from my dream firm. I honestly never thought I would be able to say this out load.

Just to give you a bit of a background, I'm an international applicant and come from a really low socio-economic background. It took me 10 years after graduating high school to feel like I was in a position to start applying to law firms, so it's been quite a journey for me. One of the challenges I faced once I actually started applying was that most firms work with Rare (which does such an amazing job at levelling the playing field), but unfortunately doesn't give international applicants from similar backgrounds as much room to reflect their similar circumstances. Some firms have been amazing at addressing this, while for others I really struggled to submit an application that adequately reflected my journey.

Anyway, I don't want to bore you with the details of this, but I thought that there may be other international applicants or someone who is facing other barriers to entry, so if you have any questions, please send me a message or ask on the thread and I'll try my best to help where I can.

Thank you,
Carina

Hi Carina,

Thank you for sharing your experience. It is very refreshing to hear this as I am an international applicant myself. I wanted to ask you a question regarding this. Since there is an option to not have our data shared with RARE, so is it better to be excluded from the RARE assessment all together because of the reason you provided?

Thank you!