Ask 4 future trainees ANYTHING! *New TCLA Team Members*

Ram Sabaratnam

Legendary Member
Staff member
Future Trainee
Gold Member
Premium Member
Sep 7, 2024
241
444
hey guys, a firm i am applying to has 6 boxes in the work experience section, a further 750 word space for 'additional work experience' and then 5 boxes in the activities & achievements section. I certainly have many experiences to write about, but not enough to fill every box in every section. Just wanted thoughts on how it would look to the recruiter if every section's boxes were not fully used up (if that makes sense lol). Thank youuuuu

Hiya @lawyersum :)


I'd be curious to see what @Jessica Booker says here, but I think it's completely fine if you don't fill every single box in each section. Based on my own experience, I've had the impression that recruiters understand that not everyone will have an equal number of experiences to include, and they are more interested in the quality of what you share than in simply seeing all the boxes filled. What matters most is that the experiences you do include are relevant, well-written, and demonstrate the skills and qualities they are looking for in a trainee. Also, I'd encourage you to include all your relevant experience and not leaving anything out.

So overall I wouldn't stress about the number of entries. Just ensure that you're using the spaces given to effectively cover the wide range of work and experiences you've had to date. Hope this helps and good luck with the application!
 

Jessica Booker

Legendary Member
TCLA Moderator
Gold Member
Graduate Recruitment
Premium Member
Forum Team
Aug 1, 2019
14,754
20,429
Hiya @lawyersum :)


I'd be curious to see what @Jessica Booker says here, but I think it's completely fine if you don't fill every single box in each section. Based on my own experience, I've had the impression that recruiters understand that not everyone will have an equal number of experiences to include, and they are more interested in the quality of what you share than in simply seeing all the boxes filled. What matters most is that the experiences you do include are relevant, well-written, and demonstrate the skills and qualities they are looking for in a trainee. Also, I'd encourage you to include all your relevant experience and not leaving anything out.

So overall I wouldn't stress about the number of entries. Just ensure that you're using the spaces given to effectively cover the wide range of work and experiences you've had to date. Hope this helps and good luck with the application!
Definitely not an issue for not all of the boxes to be utilised.
 

wordyversus

Standard Member
Sep 12, 2024
8
13
Hi @Amma Usman ,

I have a first-round interview with Gibson Dunn on Monday and was wondering if you had any tips on how I can be successful, especially as a candidate who may be asked why I’m making the transition from medicine to law. I’d love to know what you think made you successful, as well as the points I should avoid making and those I shouldn’t miss.
 

pleasepleaseplease

Distinguished Member
Oct 14, 2024
63
33
Hi everyone, hope you had a wonderful time over the holidays!

I have a first-stage interview with grad rec comping up at a firm and I am a bit confused about what to include in my 'Why the firm?' answer.
I wanted to talk about -
1. The variety of practice areas (also offering a range of clients) with a focus on two practice areas I am interested in.
2. The training at the firm.
3. The innovative nature of the firm.

However, when I speak out loud this answer, it is too long. What do you think would be okay to remove from the answer without impacting my performace too much?

Thanks!
 

pleasepleaseplease

Distinguished Member
Oct 14, 2024
63
33
Hi everyone, hope you had a wonderful time over the holidays!

I have a first-stage interview with grad rec comping up at a firm and I am a bit confused about what to include in my 'Why the firm?' answer.
I wanted to talk about -
1. The variety of practice areas (also offering a range of clients) with a focus on two practice areas I am interested in.
2. The training at the firm.
3. The innovative nature of the firm.

However, when I speak out loud this answer, it is too long. What do you think would be okay to remove from the answer without impacting my performace too much?

Thanks!
Hi - would really appreciate if someone could please provide any advice. Thanks!

@Jessica Booker @Amma Usman @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam
 

Andrei Radu

Legendary Member
Staff member
Future Trainee
Gold Member
Premium Member
Sep 9, 2024
473
716
Hi everyone, hope you had a wonderful time over the holidays!

I have a first-stage interview with grad rec comping up at a firm and I am a bit confused about what to include in my 'Why the firm?' answer.
I wanted to talk about -
1. The variety of practice areas (also offering a range of clients) with a focus on two practice areas I am interested in.
2. The training at the firm.
3. The innovative nature of the firm.

However, when I speak out loud this answer, it is too long. What do you think would be okay to remove from the answer without impacting my performace too much?

Thanks!
Hi there! Firstly, I just wanted ask how long does it take you to answer if you keep everything in? Before my interviews I always had this worry about my answers being too long and the people advising me always told me not to worry too much about it - while you will hear a lot about "conversational" interviews (and to the extent possible, it is indeed good to have that), the main purpose of the interview is to offer you a platform for you to speak. In my interviews, my 'why the firm' answer always took me at least 3 full minutes and it was never an issue.

In one case, for a firm I had a lot of reasons, which were well-researched and fitted my experiences, my 'why the firm' answer took almost 10 minutes. I could see the interviewers were really impressed while I was articulating it and I ended up receiving a VS offer before leaving the office. Now, I do not advise you to generally aim for this. Initially, I had prepared a significantly shorter answer, but as I was going through my first point I noticed the partners really liked it when I was going on a deeper level of analysis and from time to time praised my points and added commentary. Thus, I think part of your thinking when determining how long to speak for should be based on your read of the attitude of the interviewers. If you see they seem to get impatient, you might want to shorten your analysis on each reason and maybe drop some points. However, if you see they are interested and engaged, there is no reason to hold back. If you are unsure, you can even check at certain points to see if it is fine to continue - you can say something like "There are two further reasons for my interest in the firm that I intended to discuss, but just being conscious of time I thought to ask if it is fine to continue or if you would prefer to move on to something else?"

To summarize, I will highlight to main takeaways from my experience:
  1. If your answer does not take longer than around 3 minutes, there is no reason to shorten it.
  2. If it is longer than that, you can prepare both a short version of the answer and a longer one, read the attitude of the interviewers, and then make a judgement call on which to use.
As to your question as to what you should cut (assuming you still have a need for that) my somewhat unhelpful answer is that it depends on the firm. The three reasons you mentioned may each be more or less persuasive depending on that. You want to consider both (i) how 'unique' to the firm each reason is - to how many others does it apply to at one level or another?; and (ii) how 'important' it is regarding your experience at the firm as a trainee. I cannot say anything about (i) without knowing which firm you are referring to, but, all other things being equal, for (ii) I would say the third reason you mentioned is the least important. While innovation is certainly something firms are increasingly focused on, the legal industry has generally been quite conservative and risk-averse, so there is a limit as to how much firms are actually willing to do in this regard. More importantly, especially when compared to practice area selection and training, innovation is something I believe trainees are impacted by less often in their day to day life at the firm.
 

pleasepleaseplease

Distinguished Member
Oct 14, 2024
63
33
Hi there! Firstly, I just wanted ask how long does it take you to answer if you keep everything in? Before my interviews I always had this worry about my answers being too long and the people advising me always told me not to worry too much about it - while you will hear a lot about "conversational" interviews (and to the extent possible, it is indeed good to have that), the main purpose of the interview is to offer you a platform for you to speak. In my interviews, my 'why the firm' answer always took me at least 3 full minutes and it was never an issue.

In one case, for a firm I had a lot of reasons, which were well-researched and fitted my experiences, my 'why the firm' answer took almost 10 minutes. I could see the interviewers were really impressed while I was articulating it and I ended up receiving a VS offer before leaving the office. Now, I do not advise you to generally aim for this. Initially, I had prepared a significantly shorter answer, but as I was going through my first point I noticed the partners really liked it when I was going on a deeper level of analysis and from time to time praised my points and added commentary. Thus, I think part of your thinking when determining how long to speak for should be based on your read of the attitude of the interviewers. If you see they seem to get impatient, you might want to shorten your analysis on each reason and maybe drop some points. However, if you see they are interested and engaged, there is no reason to hold back. If you are unsure, you can even check at certain points to see if it is fine to continue - you can say something like "There are two further reasons for my interest in the firm that I intended to discuss, but just being conscious of time I thought to ask if it is fine to continue or if you would prefer to move on to something else?"

To summarize, I will highlight to main takeaways from my experience:
  1. If your answer does not take longer than around 3 minutes, there is no reason to shorten it.
  2. If it is longer than that, you can prepare both a short version of the answer and a longer one, read the attitude of the interviewers, and then make a judgement call on which to use.
As to your question as to what you should cut (assuming you still have a need for that) my somewhat unhelpful answer is that it depends on the firm. The three reasons you mentioned may each be more or less persuasive depending on that. You want to consider both (i) how 'unique' to the firm each reason is - to how many others does it apply to at one level or another?; and (ii) how 'important' it is regarding your experience at the firm as a trainee. I cannot say anything about (i) without knowing which firm you are referring to, but, all other things being equal, for (ii) I would say the third reason you mentioned is the least important. While innovation is certainly something firms are increasingly focused on, the legal industry has generally been quite conservative and risk-averse, so there is a limit as to how much firms are actually willing to do in this regard. More importantly, especially when compared to practice area selection and training, innovation is something I believe trainees are impacted by less often in their day to day life at the firm.
Hi Andrei, many thanks for such a useful response! I think I will prepare a shorter version without focusing on the innovation bit and would try to gauge whether the interviewer would like me to conitue and may even ask them if they would. The firm prides itself on its innovative nature and has created cost-effective alternative legal services so I do think it is something worth talking about but I agree with you that practice areas and training at the firm take precedence.
 
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rain2801

Standard Member
Jan 8, 2025
5
1
Hi @Kay Aston @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam @Amma Usman

Need some advice on my application. I'm a mature Indian applicant years of age in the penultimate year of my degree. I took a gap of 4 years post high school to undertake work, then joined a top law university in India via its entrance exam. I am currently on track to graduate with a first class with honours, but my grades in the last year of high school are abysmal. Unfortunately, we did not have a provision for mitigating circumstances in India, so I am unsure how to explain that on my application. I have a combined work experience of around 8 months across various practice areas in major Indian law firms and am certain I wish to practice in the UK as a commercial lawyer. But given my background (grades in final year of high school + gap), I am apprehensive of applying since it seems like a waste to even apply, given I'm most likely to be rejected. Do you think I should give this a chance still and if so, how do you suggest I proceed with my application?
 

Andrei Radu

Legendary Member
Staff member
Future Trainee
Gold Member
Premium Member
Sep 9, 2024
473
716
Hi there, I was wondering how I should go about for membership to get approved so we can see past applications. Bought bronze a while ago, but it still says I have no access?
Hi there, simply click on the 'Premium Database' button on the bottom of the left sidebar. After you do that, you should see a link sending you to the page where you can request premium access.
 

Andrei Radu

Legendary Member
Staff member
Future Trainee
Gold Member
Premium Member
Sep 9, 2024
473
716
Hi @Kay Aston @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam @Amma Usman

Need some advice on my application. I'm a mature Indian applicant years of age in the penultimate year of my degree. I took a gap of 4 years post high school to undertake work, then joined a top law university in India via its entrance exam. I am currently on track to graduate with a first class with honours, but my grades in the last year of high school are abysmal. Unfortunately, we did not have a provision for mitigating circumstances in India, so I am unsure how to explain that on my application. I have a combined work experience of around 8 months across various practice areas in major Indian law firms and am certain I wish to practice in the UK as a commercial lawyer. But given my background (grades in final year of high school + gap), I am apprehensive of applying since it seems like a waste to even apply, given I'm most likely to be rejected. Do you think I should give this a chance still and if so, how do you suggest I proceed with my application?
Hi @rain2801 I definitely think you should still give it a shot. Firms have always cared a lot less about high school grades than about university performance, simply because that is most relevant to assessing your potential in the industry. They do not expect you to have always have a flawless academic record, and being able to show you have had struggles but managed to overcome them and then excel is certainly and attractive trait. And this has been a trend that has accelerated recently, with many firms significantly lowering or even dropping GCSE/A-levels requirements completely. Even those that have kept them in practice tend to treat them more as a 'soft expectations' than a mandatory field, as there are many examples of forum members who did not meet the A-level requirements of Magic Circle firms, but chose to still apply and ended up getting TCs.

Considering that you have more than made up for the final high school year performance by getting into a top law school (which you should definitely emphasize in your application, as recruiters may not be familiar with it - perhaps mention national rankings and admission statistics) and by getting top results there (again, if possible, quantify these with respect to your year group), I would not worry too much about them. This is even more the case since you have mitigating circumstances, even if not officially recognized by your institution. Simply explain the circumstances and why these weren't recorded in the system back home; this is an issue many international students face and recruiters will be familiar with it.

As for the 4 year gap, I once again do not think this is a significant impediment. Firstly, the work you have undertaken during this period will have built skills which you will definitely be able to leverage in your application - this will be an advantage compared to people who are applying straight out of university. Secondly, there are many more mature successful applicants than you would think, and age does not seem to play any part in firm's assessment of a candidate - in fact, in many circumstances age discrimination would be illegal. As a great example of success as a more mature applicant, @Ram Sabaratnam (one of our community assistants) actually only started applying in his early 30s and got a TC from Cooley!

In terms of advice, besides my usual line to focus on writing as many high quality applications as possible, there are two things I would mention specific to your circumstances: (i) make sure you provide a convincing explanation as to why you want to work in the UK even though you were educated and lived in a different country; and (ii) ensure you can explain how after high school and during your gap you became attracted to law and how your university experience confirmed this.

All the best with your applications and feel free to tag me with any further questions :)!
 

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