2020-21 Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion

[JayC]

I think we also need to take into account mental health. The recent TCLA survey and the pandemic really outline the need to have a balanced life and have more open communication within the work environment. Money is good but if I am miserable..cannot spend it!

Not even taking into account mental health, you just won't have the time to spend it! I do think though that this probably comes down to the fact they are so focused on certain practice areas which will also require awful hours at all other top firms

 

[jasonweee]

weird question but if an interviewer asks about a potential start date at the end, is it a sign you didn't completely mess up?

 

[S87]

Not even taking into account mental health, you just won't have the time to spend it! I do think though that this probably comes down to the fact they are so focused on certain practice areas which will also require awful hours at all other top firms

Yes I agree. Personally I prefer a more varied training contract. I work in disputes but I am also curious about the corporate sector. I want to learn and work hard but I also want the time to build a family with my partner.

 

[Matt_96]

Also worth considering that K&E are pretty specialised in terms of its transactional, PE, sponsor-side focus. Might not be everyone's cup of tea, esp if you want a broad TC experience

Definitely how I viewed it. Took one look at their application form and in particular that one question that asked why I would be interested in a career at a transactional law firm, and being far more interested in disputes and investigations I just noped out of there straight away!

 

[S87]

Definitely how I viewed it. Took one look at their application form and in particular that one question that asked why I would be interested in a career at a transactional law firm, and being far more interested in disputes and investigations I just noped out of there straight away!

Same!

 

[Jessica Booker]

I think we also need to take into account mental health. The recent TCLA survey and the pandemic really outline the need to have a balanced life and have more open communication within the work environment. Money is good but if I am miserable..cannot spend it!

Or you end up spending it on expensive (and often destructive) things to try and compensate for your mental health.

 

[Jessica Booker]

weird question but if an interviewer asks about a potential start date at the end, is it a sign you didn't completely mess up?

Doesn’t mean anything unfortunately - just a question to support the recruitment process.

 

[S87]

Or you end up spending it on expensive (and often destructive) things to try and compensate for your mental health.

This too!

 

[Asil Ahmad]

In regards to the discussion about Kirkland and Ellis. I would like to add Skadden and Weil to it also. I want to know what is everyone view on which of those firms is the best in work-life balance and mental health as they all have long hours. Also I remember @Jaysen saying that he used to work until 3 am at Weil but I have heard about Kirkland and Ellis as having no life. Also does that mean diversity is not promoted that much at these firms.

 

[Pallatablelawyer]

Did my VI interview for White & Case on the 10th March (thought I completely bombed it) and didn’t get an email back so assumed I was rejected. By chance I logged in this evening and saw an interview invite sent TWO WEEKS AGO on the 12th. Completely panicking now 🙃🙃

You got this!

 

[Jessica Booker]

In regards to the discussion about Kirkland and Ellis. I would like to add Skadden and Weil to it also. I want to know what is everyone view on which of those firms is the best in work-life balance and mental health as they all have long hours. Also I remember @Jaysen saying that he used to work until 3 am at Weil but I have heard about Kirkland and Ellis as having no life. Also does that mean diversity is not promoted that much at these firms.

I don’t quite see the direct correlation between hours worked and diversity. A firm can have one without the other.

 

[GK8997]

In regards to the discussion about Kirkland and Ellis. I would like to add Skadden and Weil to it also. I want to know what is everyone view on which of those firms is the best in work-life balance and mental health as they all have long hours. Also I remember @Jaysen saying that he used to work until 3 am at Weil but I have heard about Kirkland and Ellis as having no life. Also does that mean diversity is not promoted that much at these firms.

I can't speak for Skadden but at Weil, I feel long hours are a given but people feel genuinely attached to the people they work with, which I think is good to see and from what I've seen in departments, the associates and partners tend to be up as late as the trainees (if not later). I also don't think there's a link with long hours and diversity, but if it helps my VS at Weil has a really mixed bunch of law/ non law and a high number of graduates and career changers actually (which could be because the interview is CV blind)

 

[Asil Ahmad]

I don’t quite see the direct correlation between hours worked and diversity. A firm can have one without the other.

No sorry they were 2 different questions just wanted people's opinion on both in regards to these firms.

 

[Asil Ahmad]

I can't speak for Skadden but at Weil, I feel long hours are a given but people feel genuinely attached to the people they work with, which I think is good to see and from what I've seen in departments, the associates and partners tend to be up as late as the trainees (if not later). I also don't think there's a link with long hours and diversity, but if it helps my VS at Weil has a really mixed bunch of law/ non law and a high number of graduates and career changers actually (which could be because the interview is CV blind)

That is interesting. I asked 2 separate questions as I feel that US firms don't promote diversity enough except for BM.

 

[GK8997]

That is interesting. I asked 2 separate questions as I feel that US firms don't promote diversity enough except for BM.

Oh sorry, I misunderstood! And that is fair enough, I think some firms are trying to become more diverse but obviously it is a slow process and some firms like BM do do it better than others!

 

[Asil Ahmad]

Oh sorry, I misunderstood! And that is fair enough, I think some firms are trying to become more diverse but obviously it is a slow process and some firms like BM do do it better than others!

No worries and I agree with you but I think with the SQE more firms will do more to promote diversity.

 

[LegalLily]

I think a lot more people than you'd expect are intimidated by firms like Kirkland to the point of not applying. I think, in part, this is down to people either being worried by the 'American firm' reputation and also some people think "Oh they pay so much everyone will apply there and I don't have a chance".

Based on my (albeit limited) knowledge, it's MC/ SC and international firms who receive the biggest volume of applicants as they're perceived as less intimidating

Imo I think its more to do with Kirkland's reputation/work of mouth that put people off.

I also think US firms are also just less desired than people realise, for a lot of people the main USP of most US firms is solely pay and that's it. And SC/MC paying 85-100k is often more than enough for most.

But hey that's likely just the opinion of me and my mates hahah

 

[Daniel Boden]

I'd be surprised though if their guaranteed level of base income were normally higher than their US salary. Legal Cheek reported somewhere else that Kirkland and Latham's current salaries are 136 000 I think, still v high obviously but V&E are way out front, and S&C, Goodwin and Sidley are probably regularly above, with many other firms in the same ballpark.

True but some firms will pay in dollars so could be vulnerable to currency fluctuations whereas some may just do an average exchange rate of the last 5 years for example and then pay the £ equivalent of that. Firms have different ways of doing things but regardless you'll be very well compensated compared to other people your age in the other 90% of the working world

 

[jasonweee]

Doesn’t mean anything unfortunately - just a question to support the recruitment process.

thanks!

 

[Daniel Boden]

Imo I think its more to do with Kirkland's reputation/work of mouth that put people off.

I also think US firms are also just less desired than people realise, for a lot of people the main USP of most US firms is solely pay and that's it. And SC/MC paying 85-100k is often more than enough for most.

But hey that's likely just the opinion of me and my mates hahah

I'd actually slightly disagree with that. US firms I think are now much more popular with graduates due to the various events they run on campuses etc. I can remember events in my final year being much more attended than in my first year but maybe my uni was unusual in that regard... either way I think the gap is definitely closing in terms of popularity between US and MC/SC firms