2020-21 Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion

[Jessica Booker]

Reluctant to post this as don't want to appear tone deaf or anything. I was given a TC offer last week, from my first choice firm. However, I have also accepted a VAC scheme elsewhere. There is no doubt in my mind I will be accepting the TC, but I want to be able to do the VAC scheme, not least because I have very little legal experience (and in the event my TC offer falls through for whatever reason, I want at least something on my CV) and also because, in all honesty, I could do with the money.

Is this acceptable, or should I inform the VAC firm that I won't be able to attend this summer. I haven't received my TC contract yet so don't know if I'd be allowed to accept a VAC elsewhere. @Jessica Booker perhaps you could advise?

P.S. To those reading this who haven't been as lucky: Yes, I say lucky, as luck is such an enormous part of this process, and I think that is often overlooked. I was incredibly down a couple of weeks ago with numerous rejections (24 to be precise) at various stages. Sidenote - I firmly believe it is a numbers game. But, as many have said prior to me, you only need one offer. Keep going, trust the process and you will get there. Best of luck to everyone.

Personally I’d decline the vacation scheme. You are taking an opportunity away from someone else who could then get a TC with that firm. That’s something I feel very strongly about though as I have seen the repercussions of people holding out offers or taking up opportunities they they know will never lead to them accepting a future job.

This happens at all levels of the recruitment process. I know people who have just gone to interviews for the practice, others who have accepted VS just to earn money over the summer. And ultimately it’s an individual’s prerogative to use the opportunities they have in whatever way they think is best.

I just look at this from the other side - I have hired less people because people took up opportunities or held on for them for too long that ultimately other people could have really benefited from.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Also, this might sound ridiculous... but when receiving a call from HR, given that they are working from home is it safe to assume they'd call off a mobile. I got a missed call on Tuesday but I can't call the number back - "not currently able to accept calls". I'm wondering if it was Willkie HR.

No - there are systems in place where people can dial from a landline number. Teams allows you to do this.

Did you have voicemail set up on your phone?

 

[Binco5919]

No - there are systems in place where people can dial from a landline number. Teams allows you to do this.

Did you have voicemail set up on your phone?

Thinking about it now, it's a tad ridiculous - they'd atleast call back. I guess I'm just anxious as they said they'd get back within a week of the interview and it's been 8 days now (also people on here seemingly had offers a day after their interview).

 

[E1998]

Huge congrats on the two vacs! ☺️ I would only ask about being considered for a TC if they say no to changing dates. Firms are a lot more flexible with changing dates rather than switching to the TC stream outright.

Thanks so much, needed some good news!!! Thank you for the advice.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thinking about it now, it's a tad ridiculous - they'd atleast call back. I guess I'm just anxious as they said they'd get back within a week of the interview and it's been 8 days now (also people on here seemingly had offers a day after their interview).

8 working days? Or is it just over a full week (including the weekend)?

 

[E1998]

Don’t email!!!!!!!

Call them - this type of conversation is one to have over the phone so you can discuss options rather than the back and forth of email. You’ll also get your enthusiasm for the firm across much better in a spoken conversation AND you will get an answer quicker to because you can discuss things/options with the firm.

Should I call them on the number they called me on? That is true about it coming across better! I am going to ask the question then once I have an answer I can make a decision. Just not sure how to be asked to be considered for a TC if they say they can't change the dates.

 

[Jaysen]

Reluctant to post this as don't want to appear tone deaf or anything. I was given a TC offer last week, from my first choice firm. However, I have also accepted a VAC scheme elsewhere. There is no doubt in my mind I will be accepting the TC, but I want to be able to do the VAC scheme, not least because I have very little legal experience (and in the event my TC offer falls through for whatever reason, I want at least something on my CV) and also because, in all honesty, I could do with the money.

Is this acceptable, or should I inform the VAC firm that I won't be able to attend this summer. I haven't received my TC contract yet so don't know if I'd be allowed to accept a VAC elsewhere. @Jessica Booker perhaps you could advise?

P.S. To those reading this who haven't been as lucky: Yes, I say lucky, as luck is such an enormous part of this process, and I think that is often overlooked. I was incredibly down a couple of weeks ago with numerous rejections (24 to be precise) at various stages. Sidenote - I firmly believe it is a numbers game. But, as many have said prior to me, you only need one offer. Keep going, trust the process and you will get there. Best of luck to everyone.

A completely fair question and nothing wrong with asking it.

I very much doubt the firm would accept you completing another vacation scheme elsewhere (you are committing to a training contract at their firm).

Regarding whether you should do it anyway, it does happen and it's a very individual decision. If this was the case where another vacation scheme was your first choice firm, I would say go for it. As it's not - I would just weigh up both sides: are there other ways you can get more experience/make money? Does it bother you that you would be taking up another place? Is it really likely the firm would withdraw your TC?

Edit: To clarify, this is assuming you are accepting the TC offer you have been given.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Should I call them on the number they called me on? That is true about it coming across better! I am going to ask the question then once I have an answer I can make a decision. Just not sure how to be asked to be considered for a TC if they say they can't change the dates.

Yes , call them on the number they called you on.

You literally just say “Is there any opportunity to be considered for a direct training contract instead?”

😉

 

[LawGrad2019]

A completely fair question and nothing wrong with asking it.

I very much doubt the firm would accept you completing another vacation scheme elsewhere (you are committing to a training contract at their firm).

Regarding whether you should do it anyway, it does happen and it's a very individual decision. If this was the case where another vacation scheme was your first choice firm, I would say go for it. As it's not - I would just weigh up both sides: are there other ways you can get more experience/make money? Does it bother you that you would be taking up another place? Is it really likely the firm would withdraw your TC?

Hi Jaysen!

Sorry to hop on here, but I didn't know that a firm can expect you to pull out of vac schemes you've been offered/accepted following a TC offer. Have I understood that correctly?

 

[Jaysen]

Hi Jaysen!

Sorry to hop on here, but I didn't know that a firm can expect you to pull out of vac schemes you've been offered/accepted following a TC offer. Have I understood that correctly?

No problem if you've just been given a TC offer. I mean this in the case of you accepting a TC offer and then asking if you can do a vacation scheme at another firm.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jaysen!

Sorry to hop on here, but I didn't know that a firm can expect you to pull out of vac schemes you've been offered/accepted following a TC offer. Have I understood that correctly?

Yes - happens to some firms a lot. It is why some firms only offer summer vac schemes to penultimate year students (because they are less likely to withdraw where they tend to get their TC offers at the end of the summer).

 

[LawGrad2019]

No problem if you've just been given a TC offer. I mean this in the case of you accepting a TC offer and then asking if you can do a vacation scheme at another firm.

Yes - happens to some firms a lot. It is why some firms only offer summer vac schemes to penultimate year students (because they are less likely to withdraw where they tend to get their TC offers at the end of the summer).

Thanks, both!

I can see the logic in a firm worrying that you will renege on your acceptance of their TC offer, but this feels a massive shame to students as vac schemes are a great way to develop as a future trainee and to earn some money (especially given all the hard work it takes to secure one).

 

[Andrew M]

Update.

Thank you everyone for your advice!

Suddenly everything’s going right... after consistent rejections I’ve scored 4 interviews.

Just goes to show it’s a luck game.

I think it just shows your resilience. Good luck with the interviews!

 

[Jaysen]

Thanks, both!

I can see the logic in a firm worrying that you will renege on your acceptance of their TC offer, but this feels a massive shame to students as vac schemes are a great way to develop as a future trainee and to earn some money (especially given all the hard work it takes to secure one).

Usually I'm sympathetic on stuff like this (when law firms have a lot of power), but in this case I think it's very reasonable for a law firm not to want their future employees to be doing vacation schemes with rival law firms.

It's different if you haven't accepted their TC offer though.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks, both!

I can see the logic in a firm worrying that you will renege on your acceptance of their TC offer, but this feels a massive shame to students as vac schemes are a great way to develop as a future trainee and to earn some money (especially given all the hard work it takes to secure one).

Firms will look at this very differently than candidates. A firm who has made you a TC offer is far more likely to tell you that other work experience will benefit you far more than a vac scheme!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Usually I'm sympathetic on stuff like this (when law firms have a lot of power), but in this case I think it's very reasonable for a law firm not to want their future employees to be doing vacation schemes with rival law firms.

It's different if you haven't accepted their TC offer though.

I have always said, it’s a bit like asking someone who you are getting engaged to as to whether you can go and date someone else for a few weeks 😂.

But that’s probably my very “old school” view and opinion of employment.

 

[LawGrad2019]

Usually I'm sympathetic on stuff like this (when law firms have a lot of power), but in this case I think it's very reasonable for a law firm not to want their future employees to be doing vacation schemes with rival law firms.

It's different if you haven't accepted their TC offer though.

Firms will look at this very differently than candidates. A firm who has made you a TC offer is far more likely to tell you that other work experience will benefit you far more than a vac scheme!

Fair enough - I guess it's just one of those things we have to accept!

It's a fortunate position to be in nonetheless

 

[cmaj]

It's funny because we approached the same situation from opposite approaches! The firm I turned down have more TC places (although it's hard to gage how many they allocate to vac schemers) - I just felt that I might be a better fit for the other firm and that this could serve me better in securing the TC.

Is the 3 week scheme the DLA one? I would have thought that they'd have already cut the first week, to be honest!

Yes, it is!!!! I thought the same thing as it's tough from a logistic perspective given the lockdown date but here's hoping. It could very well be strategic!

 

[Andrew M]

A completely fair question and nothing wrong with asking it.

I very much doubt the firm would accept you completing another vacation scheme elsewhere (you are committing to a training contract at their firm).

Regarding whether you should do it anyway, it does happen and it's a very individual decision. If this was the case where another vacation scheme was your first choice firm, I would say go for it. As it's not - I would just weigh up both sides: are there other ways you can get more experience/make money? Does it bother you that you would be taking up another place? Is it really likely the firm would withdraw your TC?

Edit: To clarify, this is assuming you are accepting the TC offer you have been given.

A purely hypothetical scenario/question relating to this: if a firm offered a TC following an Easter scheme, and I had vac schemes secured for summer (with firms I preferred), would it be better to ask for some kind of extension? Or to accept and then renege, if successful with one of the preferred firms?

 

[Chance]

how long does Gibson Dunn take to get back to you after a first round interview