2020-21 Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion

[Dheepa]

Question regarding how law firms operate as businesses:
-Are they any benefits in terms of leverage (associate-to-partner hours) of having a smaller team of lawyers working on particular transaction or case?
- More generally, what are the benefits of having smaller (3-5 person) teams besides greater responsibility for trainees?

Here's what TCLA's resident associate had to say about this!

Thanks @Jaysen and @layk.

I want you to ignore what I said in the presentation and focus on my response below, as hopefully this shall address any confusion.

In simple terms, leveraging makes it possible for partners to bring in more money, billing no more and often fewer hours than they are currently billing. To increase leverage, a partner will place more associates on a matter.

Let's take for example a partner (Partner). Partner charges £300 an hour for 10 hours of work and brings in £3,000.

Let's change this fact pattern. Let's say 5 of the 10 hours Partner worked are passed down to an associate (Associate). The Partner now brings in only £1,500 and the Associate, at their rate of £150 an hour, bring in £750. The total billed to the client, is reduced to £2,250. Bare in mind that the £750 that wasn't charged isn't "lost", because the extra five hours Partner doesn't bill on this matter can go on another matter, which will give the firm an additional £1,500. Add this £1,500 to the £2,250 billed and the firm sees £3,750 - all without the partner billing an additional hour / more time.

As you can see from the above, by leveraging up more associates on a matter, the firm is able to gain more revenue. Further, as Partner's salary comes from the firm's revenue, they will get paid more.

Let me know if this is still unclear!

 

[lozza_2]

For people who had been told yesterday that their Reed Smith summer VS application had been withdrawn as they are are no longer an undergrad, I emailed them saying that I wanted to continue with my application and they have just sent me the research questions

 

[Dheepa]

Can somebody please explain to me why some (smaller office headcount yet still very international) US firms in London do not sponsor international students studying at UK universities for their TCs, but have American lawyers working for them under work visa sponsorship?

I completely understand the dynamics between a well established fee earner vs a trainee, but I've heard that firms spend more on office decoration than on visas, and are nevertheless extremely profitable.

One for @Jessica Booker I think.

My guess is maybe they don't have enough of a presence in London just yet to justify spending on visas for international students. Just because they have the money to do something doesn't mean they think there's enough benefit to do it (although imo I think it's so misleading for any firm to advertise themselves as international if they don't even hire international students... but that's besides the point). I also think a lot of US firms need US qualified lawyers here, particularly for things like US capital markets work (in fact most US firms have dedicated teams just for this). So bringing over those lawyers is an actual necessity and not just one they can make up for through lateral hires of UK qualified lawyers.

 

[Alex3107]

Osborne Clarke vacation scheme !! 😭😭

Heyy! Can I ask which office is this for? Still waiting to hear back after my AC!

 

[LegalLordLox]

If no1 has said it already...

happy St. Patrick’s day


Think all of us could do with the luck of the Irish ☘️ whether you’re waiting for a VI or have had an offer for the VS!

WBD, Shoosmiths and I’m going to apply to RPC. Best of luck everyone.

 

[TiredPG]

Heyy! Can I ask which office is this for? Still waiting to hear back after my AC!

Bristol

 

[djqb]

One for @Jessica Booker I think.

My guess is maybe they don't have enough of a presence in London just yet to justify spending on visas for international students. Just because they have the money to do something doesn't mean they think there's enough benefit to do it (although imo I think it's so misleading for any firm to advertise themselves as international if they don't even hire international students... but that's besides the point). I also think a lot of US firms need US qualified lawyers here, particularly for things like US capital markets work (in fact most US firms have dedicated teams just for this). So bringing over those lawyers is an actual necessity and not just one they can make up for through lateral hires of UK qualified lawyers.

Thanks Dheepa!

 

[Edward]

From what I've been told, Reed Smith recruit 100% from their VS? I didn't even know they had a direct TC application, so congrats! They must have really liked you!

I guess they said no to me as I am not an undergraduate right now. So they decided to withdraw me, but if I am still interested in starting in 2023 then I was asked to reply to them. As a result I assumed I will be considered for a TC only, but not eligible for a Summer VS. I am a bit confused actually.

 

[tramn]

Bristol

Did you receive a call or was it through email? So anxious! And btw biggest congratulations!

 

[OB]

I guess they said no to me as I am not an undergraduate right now. So they decided to withdraw me, but if I am still interested in starting in 2023 then I was asked to reply to them. As a result I assumed I will be considered for a TC only, but not eligible for a Summer VS. I am a bit confused actually.

Unless they explicitly stated you are being considered for a direct TC, I highly doubt it. You should be still in the running for the vac scheme as other applicants have been told.

 

[acceleratedlaw]

JUST HEARD BACK FROM TRAVERS WITH A VS OFFER !! NOW GOTTA CONVERT LOL BUT IS OKAY

 

[Edward]

Unless they explicitly stated you are being considered for a direct TC, I highly doubt it. You should be still in the running for the vac scheme as other applicants have been told.

Yeah. I guess so. But their message was a bit confusing.

 

[Kubed]

Travers Smith VS offer!!! Now that I'm at the end of my application cycle, this is my summary of events:
11 applications
5 progressions to next stages
3 interviews/ACs
2 offers
My progression to interview/AC and two offers literally came within the last 2 weeks...I had given up on this cycle and was planning for the next. Just goes to show that it's not over till it's actually over.

 

[SRW]

Travers VS offer! Thank you to those people I messaged for advice!!

 

[OB]

Yeah. I guess so. But their message was a bit confusing.

You have to go through the vacation scheme to be considered for the 2023 TC. They will have asked if you're happy to still be considered even though the TC won't start until 2023 and then sent research questions if you say its ok

 

[conniekatherine]

Still nothing from V&E after interview

 

[Helpme12345]

Still nothing from V&E after interview

Has anyone emailed about it yet?

 

[Jessica Booker]

One for @Jessica Booker I think.

My guess is maybe they don't have enough of a presence in London just yet to justify spending on visas for international students. Just because they have the money to do something doesn't mean they think there's enough benefit to do it (although imo I think it's so misleading for any firm to advertise themselves as international if they don't even hire international students... but that's besides the point). I also think a lot of US firms need US qualified lawyers here, particularly for things like US capital markets work (in fact most US firms have dedicated teams just for this). So bringing over those lawyers is an actual necessity and not just one they can make up for through lateral hires of UK qualified lawyers.

In short, why sponsor visas when you know you can get the talent from the domestic talent pool? If you are only recruiting a small number, you are more likely to find that from a large enough domestic pipeline.

By the time you add visa costs up, it can be around £8k+ per person. Yes, not a huge amount of money in the grand scheme of a law firm, but why go through the process if you don’t have to? Although firms spend a lot of money on random things, the costs of which are still monitored and weighed up. Yes a decoration may seem superficial, but it impacts everyone who sees it. A visa only really impacts the person it is allocated too.

It isn’t just a cost perspective for the visa though. It could be the case that the firm is not confident that the role will meet the points based criteria. Until January of this year, visa processes were not straight forward and in many cases needed you to prove you had actively recruited within the UK. For some smallest firms, they couldn’t have met that criteria. I would expect now that most US firms would meet the criteria for the new skilled persons visa, but that literally came in weeks ago and so firms may be playing catch up on that and may change their policy for future years where the visa process is much more simple.

 

[conniekatherine]

Has anyone emailed about it yet?

They said to me replies would be week commencing 15th, so honestly could be anytime till Friday but I'm getting v impatient

 

[Lawyer101]

Dechert rejection post-app. That marks the end of my VS cycle:

17 applications
5 Video Interviews
3 ACs
3 VS

Just want to say a massive thank you to everybody on this forum for being so welcoming, supportive and helpful. It really makes this process a lot easier/more enjoyable.