2020-21 Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion

[LegalNim]

Hi guys,

What are the right examples to show your resilience and growth?

I would talk about my weight loss journey that has been one of the hardest things in my life. However, I have been told that this might not be the best example.

Thank you very much

I think this is a great example and one that I've used in an interview where I was successful. I went from 50kg to 80kg after an injury meant I had to stop playing my sport - I then lost 30kg to get back to my comfortable weight and ran a marathon. Losing weight - changing your eating habits, your emotional attachments, reorganising your time, determination, facing fears and the risk of failure etc etc - is really hard and shows a lot.
I think that if someone else is hurt by your success then that would demonstrate a problem with them - not with your answer. If an interviewer were to get upset by other people's achievements then I don't think anyone would perform well in the interview with them.

 

[Veep9]

I personally wouldn’t talk about this. I think you risk making the person interviewing you feel quite uncomfortable but I may be biased there as I know if someone did this to me I’d want to crawl into a hole and cry (again very biased). By all means if it seems like the right thing to say for you then do it! I would just consider your interviewers’ own life experiences as this is why I’ve never discussed my own experiences on mental health in an interview. This is just one view and I could be entirely wrong (plz no one come for me)!

I agree that using a personal example can be incredibly tricky and definitely would require you to read the room quite carefully. Some personal examples work quite well - like recovering after an accident or illness or bereavement (or more regular ones like a bad grade) - and others are so emotionally charged, I think it could backfire. My personal view is that weight loss falls in the second category.

Edit to add: if you do go that way, I’d say be careful with the language you use in the S and R sections of your STAR answer!

 

[LawGrad2019]

I personally wouldn’t talk about this. I think you risk making the person interviewing you feel quite uncomfortable but I may be biased there as I know if someone did this to me I’d want to crawl into a hole and cry (again very biased). By all means if it seems like the right thing to say for you then do it! I would just consider your interviewers’ own life experiences as this is why I’ve never discussed my own experiences on mental health in an interview. This is just one view and I could be entirely wrong (plz no one come for me)!

To add yet another perspective, I agree with this - the truth is, interviews are about forming a connection with the interviewer and some examples (such as weight-related) could land very differently depending on the interviewer. For example, one interviewer may be really struggling with lockdown weight gain and not want to discuss weight whilst another may be a fitness fanatic who feels really strongly about physical health. Whilst this absolutely not the problem of the interviewee, it's one of those things where it is what it is.

This is absolutely not to take away from the huge achievement of healthy weight loss (and good on the OP!), but it's one of those sensitive topics where, if all you want to do is make sure you form a great connection with the interviewer, it may be best to play it safe and choose something else!

 

[Celestie]

I think this is a great example and one that I've used in an interview where I was successful. I went from 50kg to 80kg after an injury meant I had to stop playing my sport - I then lost 30kg to get back to my comfortable weight and ran a marathon. Losing weight - changing your eating habits, your emotional attachments, reorganising your time, determination, facing fears and the risk of failure etc etc - is really hard and shows a lot.
I think that if someone else is hurt by your success then that would demonstrate a problem with them - not with your answer. If an interviewer were to get upset by other people's achievements then I don't think anyone would perform well in the interview with them.

This is amazing - love hearing these resilience stories. I would also like to add that if an interviewer were to diminish your experience it would reflect the firm massively and show that it would not be a place that appreciates/values you.

As I have said, look for a firm that celebrates you!

 

[castrooo]

Ah no that’s too bad😔 Sorry be that person but when did you have your interview? Hope they can give you some good feedback!

11th of Feb!

 

[Andrew M]

To add yet another perspective, I agree with this - the truth is, interviews are about forming a connection with the interviewer and some examples (such as weight-related) could land very differently depending on the interviewer. For example, one interviewer may be really struggling with lockdown weight gain and not want to discuss weight whilst another may be a fitness fanatic who feels really strongly about physical health. Whilst this absolutely not the problem of the interviewee, it's one of those things where it is what it is.

This is absolutely not to take away from the huge achievement of healthy weight loss (and good on the OP!), but it's one of those sensitive topics where, if all you want to do is make sure you form a great connection with the interviewer, it may be best to play it safe and choose something else!

While I can understand the point of view, interviewers are professionals. I doubt very much that an interviewer would be offended by an applicant's personal journey/success and thus allow it to cloud their judgement of their potential.

 

[LawGrad2019]

While I can understand the point of view, interviewers are professionals. I doubt very much that an interviewer would be offended by an applicant's personal journey/success and thus allow it to cloud their judgement of their potential.

Fair enough!

I definitely agree that ideally an interviewer should approach it this way, and it would be bad form for an interviewer to let it cloud their judgement. Just giving an honest response as I think talking sensitively about weight loss (specifically the need for it) can be tricky to do. It's not so much about blatant offence; it's more about subtle forces and tones in an interview.

Ultimately, the OP asked for a reason - and I think this thread demonstrates that different people have different perspectives on this one! Overall, I'd say it's just a case of reading the room, and I'd advise the OP to have a spare example in case.

 

[Celestie]

While I can understand the point of view, interviewers are professionals. I doubt very much that an interviewer would be offended by an applicant's personal journey/success and thus allow it to cloud their judgement of their potential.

I agree. I was honest about something life-changing that happened to me about a year or so ago and explained how I adjusted my life around it - my interviewer took an interest and asked what I had learned that would prepare me as a lawyer.

So I recommend, when thinking of resilience questions:

• What did I learn - skills-wise/about yourself
• How can what I learned prepare me to be a successful lawyer
• What does it show about me - are you able to deal with multiple stressful things at once? Are you able to time manage super well now? Are you able to persevere in difficult circumstances?
• Where does this fit into the firm values - can you help motivate team members when they are in difficulty? etc

Some food for thought!

 

[Legal_rawn]

While I can understand the point of view, interviewers are professionals. I doubt very much that an interviewer would be offended by an applicant's personal journey/success and thus allow it to cloud their judgement of their potential.

I don’t think it would cloud their judgement I think it may just change the tone of the interview. Again relating it back to how I’d personally feel I would be taken by surprise and not know how to respond as it would be an uncomfortable topic for me. This could lead the interview being cut short (not even intentionally) simply because they want to remove themselves from the situation. Interviewers are still human and have emotions. I have wanted to talk about s*xual a*sualt before in an application asking which laws I would change but haven’t because I thought it could potential be triggering for the person reading my application and that would be unfair to them. Again congratulations it is an amazing achievement for the OP, but I would think about the potential implications. Or just say you went on a health journey and not focus on the weight part? I understand quantifying your achievement but you could focus on how many hours you spent doing stuff rather than the weight loss. Again just my opinion but I’ve refrained from ever talking about my own experiences with weight because a) I find it uncomfortable b) I am scared of being judged c) I don’t want to trigger anyone else around me. But we should also move forward to allowing people to be more open about their experiences so there is that side as well. I have interviewed people in the past and just know I wouldnt be expecting that sort of topic and it would just scare me to be honest (wouldn’t judge them at all though)!
Apologies for the essay that’s all I’m gonna say on this as the weight discussion ain’t for me at all so best of luck!

 

[ellens]

I know they said we would find out by tomorrow but has anyone heard from Cooley post WG?

 

[S87]

Generally speaking, I think personal examples are great here and that sounds like one which would be really suitable.

Having been on a similar journey myself (lost about 10st/ 63kg a few years ago), I can definitely attest that it requires a huge amount of resilience. Many congratulations to you for following the journey through too!

I discuss this answer in my interview article accessible via my signature below, this might help you put everything together.

Hope this helps!

Thank you so much.

Congrats on your big achievement!

Thank you all for your advice, I will take into account your observations.

I went from 110 kg to 68 over the last 5 years.

 

[hamza alam]

so nrf told me theyd reply to me about a AC invite by early next week, it is now tuesday and i haven't heard anything back, PFO?

 

[Jacob Miller]

so nrf told me theyd reply to me about a AC invite by early next week, it is now tuesday and i haven't heard anything back, PFO?

It's not a PFO 'til it's a PFO. Firms' timeframes have all been massively elongated this cycle with the current working scenario - this is nothing to worry about.

 

[HorsesForCoursesNeighNeighNeigh]

so nrf told me theyd reply to me about a AC invite by early next week, it is now tuesday and i haven't heard anything back, PFO?

Firm: it will be 3 weeks
Actual reality: 3 months
Firm: it's a YES!

Timing doesn't mean anything! They're probably sending the yes and the no at the same time anyway. At current rate, "early next week" means "by end of April" 🤣

 

[WannabeSolicitor24]

Firm: it will be 3 weeks
Actual reality: 3 months
Firm: it's a YES!

Timing doesn't mean anything! They're probably sending the yes and the no at the same time anyway. At current rate, "early next week" means "by end of April" 🤣

After the Latham VI they said it would be up to two weeks to hear back. It's coming up to 2 months lol

 

[Celestie]

so nrf told me theyd reply to me about a AC invite by early next week, it is now tuesday and i haven't heard anything back, PFO?

Firms go by this time structure

 

[Matt_96]

After the Latham VI they said it would be up to two weeks to hear back. It's coming up to 2 months lol

I'm still waiting to hear back on my Forsters TC app from last year, which was amalgamated into the 2023 cycle for some reason.

 

[CareerChanger]

TCLA should get some merch made. I’d recommend sweatshirts with:

“it’s not a PFO until it’s a PFO” and
“wHeN dId YoU aPpLy?”

 

[Daniel Boden]

I don’t think it would cloud their judgement I think it may just change the tone of the interview. Again relating it back to how I’d personally feel I would be taken by surprise and not know how to respond as it would be an uncomfortable topic for me. This could lead the interview being cut short (not even intentionally) simply because they want to remove themselves from the situation. Interviewers are still human and have emotions. I have wanted to talk about s*xual a*sualt before in an application asking which laws I would change but haven’t because I thought it could potential be triggering for the person reading my application and that would be unfair to them. Again congratulations it is an amazing achievement for the OP, but I would think about the potential implications. Or just say you went on a health journey and not focus on the weight part? I understand quantifying your achievement but you could focus on how many hours you spent doing stuff rather than the weight loss. Again just my opinion but I’ve refrained from ever talking about my own experiences with weight because a) I find it uncomfortable b) I am scared of being judged c) I don’t want to trigger anyone else around me. But we should also move forward to allowing people to be more open about their experiences so there is that side as well. I have interviewed people in the past and just know I wouldnt be expecting that sort of topic and it would just scare me to be honest (wouldn’t judge them at all though)!
Apologies for the essay that’s all I’m gonna say on this as the weight discussion ain’t for me at all so best of luck!

Hi guys,

What are the right examples to show your resilience and growth?

I would talk about my weight loss journey that has been one of the hardest things in my life. However, I have been told that this might not be the best example.

Thank you very much

Not sure I totally agree with this tbh. Being a candidate who is trying to sell themselves is hard enough without having to think about the potential views/opinions/experiences of the individual reading your application/listening to your answers in an interview so I have no issue with OP's example and am 99% sure that any interviewer would not have an issue with it either.

Personally, I think you have to do what is right for you and say/give the examples that you think will show you in the best light. Otherwise at what point do you draw the line? For instance, if someone worked really hard to represent their country in a sport and then the interviewer/reader previously had a very unfortunate injury which meant they couldn't reach the same heights in their sporting career, should the candidate not include the example out of risk of offending the reader and thus potentially harming the chances of their application/candidacy being progressed? Doesn't seem fair on the candidate at all in my view.

The reactions of other people are completely out of your control and I don't think it's particularly productive second-guessing your examples out of risk of potential offence. Ultimately, people will think what they think regardless of what you intend so I think candidates should give the examples they think are best for them and their circumstances. By focussing on controlling what you can control you will be a much better candidate for it.

 

[Celestie]

TCLA should get some merch made. I’d recommend sweatshirts with:

“it’s not a PFO until it’s a PFO” and
“wHeN dId YoU aPpLy?”

dont forget
*insert gif*