2020-21 Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion

[LegalLordLox]

Has anyone received a VI for shoosmiths?

Still waiting to hear back!

 

[summer207]

That’s so weird I didn’t even get this - do you think I should email them to double check they actually received my answers? Just bc I saw on here that someone else found out that their answers were never received by AS/DWF

I got a rejection for the scheme today so I assume they’re still considering your application? You could try emailing but they receive so many emails they may not reply

 

[John Travoni]

I got a rejection for the scheme today so I assume they’re still considering your application? You could try emailing but they receive so many emails they may not reply

I only received that from them bc I had emailed them weeks back to ask about when we would hear back from them, and they only responded to the email today and thought I was referring to the stage 2 application when in reality, I was asking about stage 1😂

 

[summer207]

I only received that from them bc I had emailed them weeks back to ask about when we would hear back from them, and they only responded to the email today and thought I was referring to the stage 2 application when in reality, I was asking about stage 1😂

Oh my rejection was after stage 2, that’s weird they haven’t responded about stage 1😭

 

[Emily Kate]

I would say, without a doubt, US firms.

• MC take 50-100 trainees each year, meaning a bunch of VS on offer.
• US firms have less people applying as some are less well known, but this is changing and they all still receive 1000+ applications (with some receiving 2000 or 3000) so it's negligible e.g. Cooley said they received 67% more applications this year.
• US firms seem to care less about social mobility, and thus have higher entry requirements (AAB-AAA and strong 2:1s needed for many). If you go on Legal Cheek, they also heavily recruit from Oxbridge so make of that what you will. When you apply, you're basically competing with some very strong competition.
• US firms also seem to have a few subtle niche conventions in place. For example, Ropes & Gray seem to prefer hiring older applicants who have worked elsewhere or have prior experience in the job market. Cooley seems to be after people who have had interesting experiences in the past which many 20 year old wont. Kirkland judge your VS application with the view of making you partner one day, so the threshold for entry is much higher. These internal preferences and obstacles just aren't there when you apply to the MC.

At the end of the day, both are insanely difficult to secure a VS at, and its a huge accomplishment to succeed in getting one, but I am personally inclined to say that the journey is slightly more difficult, less transparent and more competitive for people who have managed to secure VS at US firms.

I find this so strange because I’ve been automatically rejected from all MC firms I applied to which was A&O, Linklaters and Freshfields but I’ve got interviews with V&E, Weil and Kirkland. I just presumed the US firms must be easier to get into.

 

[CJCH]

I'm guessing they actually had a ton of applications - more than expected.

Just wondering if AS has got back to you eventually? Or are you just going through the direct application to DWF now?

 

[jd3447]

Has anyone received a VI for shoosmiths?

I thought this app was non rolling?

 

[John Travoni]

Oh my rejection was after stage 2, that’s weird they haven’t responded about stage 1😭

If you don’t mind me asking, what did they say in the email that they sent you today ?

 

[summer207]

If you don’t mind me asking, what did they say in the email that they sent you today ?

Regular stuff like apply for other opportunities, can’t provide feedback, etc. The most relevant paragraph is: “Unfortunately, we are not progressing your application to the firm via the scheme but please do apply direct to the firm if you haven't already done so and/or you are eligible to apply for vacation schemes and/or training contracts. Please be aware that the submissions to this scheme haven't been shared with DWF.”

 

[Kola]

I find this so strange because I’ve been automatically rejected from all MC firms I applied to which was A&O, Linklaters and Freshfields but I’ve got interviews with V&E, Weil and Kirkland. I just presumed the US firms must be easier to get into.

It is difficult to draw a hand to hand comparison. In my experience, MC tend to be more picky at the initial stages (lots of people kicked out at the application stage), whereas the US firms tend to be more picky at the later stages (lots of people kicked out post-VI, AC etc.). US firms also look for different things - quite a few value practical entrepreneurial stuff more so you're more likely to progress with them if you've done something to demonstrate that.

This is all speculative by the way, just my own personal thoughts and anecdotes.

 

[Arisa]

Has Anyone heard from Ropes and Gray yet?

 

[Jaysen]

generally are magic circle firms or US firms more competitive to secure a VS with?

I think it depends on which US firms we are referring to, as they are very different from one another. For example, Jones Day is very different from Baker McKenzie, which is very different from Skadden.

If we're talking about the interview stage, I'd also factor in the type of interview you do best in - for example, I used to prefer what I felt was a more conversational style of US-firm interviews.

 

[Renemccarthy]

First post on here..

DWF AC!!! Anyone got any advice for the topscore software / DWF AC? Never done a virtual AC before so really nervous.

@E1998 - Hello, congrats! Do you mind me asking which office this was for? How long did it take to hear back? Just wondering if they consider the VI’s on a rolling basis. (My first time too)

 

[tk166]

I would say, without a doubt, US firms.

• MC take 50-100 trainees each year, meaning a bunch of VS on offer.
• US firms have less people applying as some are less well known, but this is changing and they all still receive 1000+ applications (with some receiving 2000 or 3000) so it's negligible e.g. Cooley said they received 67% more applications this year.
• US firms seem to care less about social mobility, and thus have higher entry requirements (AAB-AAA and strong 2:1s needed for many). If you go on Legal Cheek, they also heavily recruit from Oxbridge so make of that what you will. When you apply, you're basically competing with some very strong competition.
• US firms also seem to have a few subtle niche conventions in place. For example, Ropes & Gray seem to prefer hiring older applicants who have worked elsewhere or have prior experience in the job market. Cooley seems to be after people who have had interesting experiences in the past which many 20 year old wont. Kirkland judge your VS application with the view of making you partner one day, so the threshold for entry is much higher. These internal preferences and obstacles just aren't there when you apply to the MC.

At the end of the day, both are insanely difficult to secure a VS at, and its a huge accomplishment to succeed in getting one, but I am personally inclined to say that the journey is slightly more difficult, less transparent and more competitive for people who have managed to secure VS at US firms.

This is very interesting because I have found that securing a vac scheme at US firms has been a lot easier and more predictable than securing anything at magic circle firms

 

[Jessica Booker]

Law firms can take a lot more risks with vac scheme applicants, so they sometimes aim off on things that might be less important to them. For one firm that might be motivation, for the next it may be academics, for the next it might be how interesting (or dull) you are as a candidate.

Given this and each firm's preferences in the first place, what might be easier at one firm might be more difficult at the next for one person (but the other way round for the next person), and that wont be as linear as MC vs US. Take it from someone who recruited at 3 MC firms all with very different approaches to recruitment, despite often recruiting from the same talent pool.

 

[Dheepa]

When it comes to the ' what are your main spare time interests/activities' question, do you simply just state what your interests are and elaborate or do you need to link it to the firm?

No need to link this back to the firm! They just want to know that you other interests outside of academics and law.

 

[Legallin]

Does anyone know the dates of Mishcon de Reya's vacation schemes this year? The dates on their website conflict with each other and correspond to the days of the week from last year

I was also wondering this, looked everywhere and can’t find an answer

 

[Matt_96]

Just got sent the VI, Written Exercise and online tests for Simmons & Simmons (Bristol office) today.

Anyone have any tips?

 

[rosie.l]

Anyone with an Ashurst AC today - has anyone else not been sent the link yet for the written exercise?

 

[Dheepa]

hi guys, would/could you be asked about negative press about the firm in an interview by any chance? have people experienced this? i wouldn't know how to approach it if i was asked such a question tbh

I think questions like this are rare because I don't think any firm would expect you to have an in depth knowledge on the negative press surrounding them or an example of a negative article ready to go for discussion. But if for example a partner specifically explains a particular article and asks for your opinion on it, I'd be honest about your views on the situation but also try to take a balanced approach by considering the firm's position on the matter. One recent-ish example that comes to mind was when Kirkland said they were implementing a concierge service (or something to that effect) for their trainees and the legal press took it as a sign that the firm didn't want trainees to ever leave the office for any reason. I'd just reason it out, yes on one hand it creates the expectation that you'd be around the office more, but on the other hand, it's extra investment the firm is making in you that no other firm is doing. Whatever stance you take on controversial issues/negative press, I'd say it's more important that you can defend your argument/opinion and don't get too flustered by the question throwing you off.