2020-21 Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion

[ola830]

White & Case interview !!!!!! Also any tips for the written exercise would be very appreciated

Hey congrats! When did you complete your VI, if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[Celestie]

I completely see how my post would have been tone-deaf and apologise for any harm caused.

I have some personal circumstances I'd rather not disclose that make me want to move to the US in the future. Of course it's not going to be easy to make this move no matter what firm I end up at, but I feel that the path is a lot clearer at a US firm

US firm does not mean you will certainly be able to move to the US - I think this is a more firm-specific issue?

 

[FM302989]

Great post - completely agree with this.

The individual caveated their post with a comment to say they knew it may not be appreciated by others but was putting themselves out there because they needed advice and guidance. Everyone is entitled to that advice no matter how much success they have/don't have.

Agree with both of your well-written points!

All I will personally add is that it can be very difficult, especially if you're still a student, to know exactly what type of law firm and practice area you want to work in without having proper full-time work experience. I never thought I would be beginning my legal career at a regional outfit, but I can guarantee I've had more quality experience and responsibility than individuals in equivalent roles in a City firm. Plus I discovered my love for corporate law/transactional work and realised that disputes isn't for me. Granted my ambition is to train in the City, but I believe that I've been given a chance to take baby steps to work hard and build my career by Paralegalling.

At this stage, it will be ambition and your mindset that drive your applications. So whichever direction you want to push yourself, go for it! You never know if it'll be a perfect fit until you're there and your career may go in a different direction in a few years time anyway!

 

[OB]

Damn I wish I was in that position
View attachment 2856

Lol I can’t even get more than 8 hours a week at my supermarket job atm let alone a TC 🥺👉👈

 

[Haz]

Congrats! Do you mind sharing when you completed your VI?

Thanks!!! I completed it 9am Wednesday 10 Feb

 

[Numerius Negidius]

US firm does not mean you will certainly be able to move to the US - I think this is a more firm-specific issue?

True, but tbh it's kind of hard to know whether a firm offers these opportunities since they are generally quite rare and not part of a formal scheme. But I think working at a US firm with secondment opportunities is more likely to improve my chances

 

[jan28]

Lol I can’t even get more than 8 hours a week at my supermarket job atm let alone a TC 🥺👉👈

omg why are they so stingy with the hours it used to irk me so much

 

[Celestie]

True, but tbh it's kind of hard to know whether a firm offers these opportunities since they are generally quite rare and not part of a formal scheme. But I think working at a US firm with secondment opportunities is more likely to improve my chances

I think, again, youre assuming US firms will allow that. I think you should perhaps talk to GR or current trainees at the firms you have been offered.

Furthermore, if you really want a US TC, you don't have to go for the MC one.

 

[JayC]

True, but tbh it's kind of hard to know whether a firm offers these opportunities since they are generally quite rare and not part of a formal scheme. But I think working at a US firm with secondment opportunities is more likely to improve my chances

I think you're less likely to be able to move to the US if you train with a US firm in London. There's a reason they are training lawyers in London and not shipping them over from the US (as many US firms still do), but they have an abundance of lawyers in the US and do not need a British-trained lawyer going over there. British firms with US offices, however, will often want to ship their lawyers over to the US, especially if their US offices are smaller/growing.

If the real reason is the money, be honest about it - it's not a bad reason. I have heard MC lawyers complain that often they are working the same hours as their US counterparts for 60% of the pay and that in this global legal market there's just no justification for that any more in their minds

 

[FM302989]

If a firm pays a high salary, it means you gotta EARN a high salary


⬇️⬇️⬇️Me with my measly salary finishing work at 21:00 on a Friday

 

[JesseB]

Made a separate post but was directed here - Sorry new to the forum!

I just received an interview invite from Sidley Austin for the spring/summer vacation scheme (very surprising considering I don't meet their AAA A-Level requirements in the slightest nor do I have a high 2.1)
Can't really find anything online about the interview structure other than it is a partner interview. So does anyone have any advice on how to prepare for it, is there a case study, or what they tend to ask?

Thanks,

Mikhail

Has anyone replied to you yet? I also have an interview next week.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I completely see how my post would have been tone-deaf and apologise for any harm caused.

I have some personal circumstances I'd rather not disclose that make me want to move to the US in the future. Of course it's not going to be easy to make this move no matter what firm I end up at, but I feel that the path is a lot clearer at a US firm

It is not tone-deaf and no harm caused.

If it is a later down the line thing, then moving to a US firm after qualifying or moving to the US with a MC firm or a US firm are all still feasible which ever route you go. I am not convinced all US firms would give you that clearer path from the outset though - some might, but I am not convinced all would.

Edit: Also I am assuming you are a law grad? If not, then it will be much more difficult for you to move to the US.

 

[Daniel Boden]

I think one of the best parts of the TCLA community is that everyone meets here with their own definition of success. We meet here all trying to encourage each other as we pursue that personal success we’re aiming to shoot for.

Even if someone gets a TC, that might not be what, to them, is what they want in life! It would be different if someone said “I want 3 TCs to feel contented.” But if someone wants the US experience over a UK one, I’d say that’s just being real to what’s successful for them (and therefore perfectly legitimate! I know a friend who got offered 7 vac schemes but turned away from commercial law to go into academia. He ‘made it’, but didn’t want it.) What’s helpful as a community is I reckon asking them questions to help them figure out their way.

We’re all allowed to disagree, and I see your point, but I’d put forward that this friend has a definition of success in a personality and person you and I can’t see beyond his username

Couldn't agree more - very well said! I know @Jaysen can speak from experience where I believe he rejected a TC offer from a firm because he thought another firm would be better suited for his needs/career plans so I don't think we should be criticising someone for staying true to their career goals tbh as hard as that may be to hear

 

[Daniel Boden]

Damn I wish I was in that position
View attachment 2856

Only a matter of time for you my friend @Celestie

 

[Daniel Boden]

I completely see how my post would have been tone-deaf and apologise for any harm caused.

I have some personal circumstances I'd rather not disclose that make me want to move to the US in the future. Of course it's not going to be easy to make this move no matter what firm I end up at, but I feel that the path is a lot clearer at a US firm

US firm does not mean you will certainly be able to move to the US - I think this is a more firm-specific issue?

True, but tbh it's kind of hard to know whether a firm offers these opportunities since they are generally quite rare and not part of a formal scheme. But I think working at a US firm with secondment opportunities is more likely to improve my chances

I think, again, youre assuming US firms will allow that. I think you should perhaps talk to GR or current trainees at the firms you have been offered.

Furthermore, if you really want a US TC, you don't have to go for the MC one.

Tbh from my experience, I think @Numerius Negidius is right in that it is significantly easier to work in the US when you have that grounding in a US firm in London or wherever you are. As long as you are able to pass the required bar exam, the fact you have the internal network of the firm would suggest it is much easier to move over to the US when you would like to (the fact that you have those secondment opportunities only can help that as you say). You will be able to access contacts in the firm's US offices and be able to transition over much easier than a fresh external hire - I think it's fairly clear why that would be the case tbh.

Although that is obviously not what a London office would necessarily want to hear, I have heard it happen and think it is pretty common for UK lawyers working in US firms - I recently attended an event where a US lawyer admitted one of his colleagues recently took the California bar and has moved out there having been a qualified UK lawyer for 15 years so it is more than possible!

Hope that helps but tbh more power to you if you reject a MC TC because you want to work in the US! Unless the firm is Freshfields which seems to be expanding quite significantly in the US atm judging by its Silicon Valley office opening and significant US lateral hires, I don't see a big issue with it especially since you're staying true to yourself and your career goals

 

[Daniel Boden]

It is not tone-deaf and no harm caused.

If it is a later down the line thing, then moving to a US firm after qualifying or moving to the US with a MC firm or a US firm are all still feasible which ever route you go. I am not convinced all US firms would give you that clearer path from the outset though - some might, but I am not convinced all would.

Edit: Also I am assuming you are a law grad? If not, then it will be much more difficult for you to move to the US.

@Numerius Negidius but yes just to add to @Jessica Booker's point, if you don't have a 3 year law degree, you can only really qualify in California once you're qualified as a lawyer in the UK because the New York bar would be unavailable to you as a non-law graduate (unless you do an LLM in the US)

 

[Celestie]

Only a matter of time for you my friend @Celestie

Law firms which have my PFOs ready for Monday:

 

[M1999]

Lol I can’t even get more than 8 hours a week at my supermarket job atm let alone a TC 🥺👉👈

really needed this comment today after being rejected from a Tesco job. Trying not to let it make me think I’m not good enough for a TX lol

 

[Asil Ahmad]

Law firms which have my PFOs ready for Monday:

This is so me right now but during the pandemic, I have seen weekend rejections from firms like Linklaters.

Also, this will be the Cooley PFO for me on Monday.

 

[Numerius Negidius]

I think, again, youre assuming US firms will allow that. I think you should perhaps talk to GR or current trainees at the firms you have been offered.

Furthermore, if you really want a US TC, you don't have to go for the MC one.

What I've been told by people at my current firm is that it's not easy to make the move within the MC firm and I should try to get into one of the larger US firms with secondments. If I don't manage to get a US TC, I'd probably just go for the MC and try again later rather than wait another year.

I think you're less likely to be able to move to the US if you train with a US firm in London. There's a reason they are training lawyers in London and not shipping them over from the US (as many US firms still do), but they have an abundance of lawyers in the US and do not need a British-trained lawyer going over there. British firms with US offices, however, will often want to ship their lawyers over to the US, especially if their US offices are smaller/growing.

If the real reason is the money, be honest about it - it's not a bad reason. I have heard MC lawyers complain that often they are working the same hours as their US counterparts for 60% of the pay and that in this global legal market there's just no justification for that any more in their minds

What I'm thinking is that in transactional seats they aren't hugely concerned about where you are qualified. A British-trained US-qualified lawyer might even be useful in some cases (though it's probably extremely competitive). On the flip side, there aren't many fast-growing UK firms in the US, and even so they may prefer hiring from established US firms.

More money is of course great as I absolutely think MC lawyers work almost the same hours as their US counterparts, but my endgame is nonetheless moving to the US.

If it is a later down the line thing, then moving to a US firm after qualifying or moving to the US with a MC firm or a US firm are all still feasible which ever route you go. I am not convinced all US firms would give you that clearer path from the outset though - some might, but I am not convinced all would.

Edit: Also I am assuming you are a law grad? If not, then it will be much more difficult for you to move to the US.

Yes, I'm a law student. From what I've heard the larger transactional focused US firms have at least had some people qualify directly into US offices in the past. I'm under no illusion there will be any clear path whichever way I go, but I also think going on a US secondment could open some doors.