TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[jfb]

Have many people heard back for SH summer?

 

[BillSikes]

I think they’ve got back to people with TIs. It’s probably a PFO at this point but they might not send these out for a while.

I thought the same. Have they not already replied? All was that only for non-London apps

 

[sibs23]

You can just give your faculty's admin office. It does not need to be someone who vouches for you personally - the reference just needs to verify your grades.

The admin office for my uni also refused to do this. The personal tutor had a rule that she would only respond to reference requests from second year students which was really unhelpful. Thankfully, I've never had a law firm actually reach out to academic referees or I don't know what I will do

 

[A worried graduate]

They would have possibly done, but the government is now looking to change apprenticeship funding for Level 7 (degree and graduate level apprenticeships) across all sectors which would stop firms being able to fund this level of apprenticeships through the levy and that effectively they would have to pay the funds themselves (https://feweek.co.uk/all-level-7-apprenticeships-will-be-axed-skills-minister-suggests/)

The changes have not been confirmed yet though but the legal sector is not happy about this as it effectively also puts pressure of them to not take on degree level (e.g. school leavers) into the 6-7 year programmes, something many law firms have put a lot of time and effort into creating and embedding in the past couple of years.

This will be horrendous news and basically kills off the only advantage of the SQE.

Will this have an impact on any GSAs that are applied for in this cycle?

 

[Jessica Booker]

The admin office for my uni also refused to do this. The personal tutor had a rule that she would only respond to reference requests from second year students which was really unhelpful. Thankfully, I've never had a law firm actually reach out to academic referees or I don't know what I will do

The reference check companies are likely to know if there are certain universities who don't provide this. It is a bizarre attitude to take, especially given how prevalent educational fraud is. Hundreds of thousands of employers will need this information each year, so I suspect there is a way to get the information from the university and the reference check company probably knows how to get it.

If they can't get it, presenting a formal transcript can be an alternative reference check companies are willing to accept.

 

[Jessica Booker]

This will be horrendous news and basically kills off the only advantage of the SQE.

Will this have an impact on any GSAs that are applied for in this cycle?

The proposal still needs to be implemented - it may not happen, especially given the backlash from many sectors.

It would also only apply to GSAs after a period of time after the proposal was implemented. It would not be backdated for programmes already in progress. Therefore it is unlikely to impact this cycle's GSA, but might stop the 2026 GSA programmes from being recruited. In any instance where anyone was impacted, firms/employers are likely to take people on as normal and fund the training directly or find alternative ways to train, such as the traditional SQE pre TC model.

 

[desperateTCseeker1998]

Does anyone else seem to have more luck with some application websites than others? I have never got past the application stage if the firm uses cvmail...

I have this same exact problem! Makes me feel like I must be inputting something incorrectly on the form or something... might be the more limited word count for work experience though idk

 

[trainee4u]

This will be horrendous news and basically kills off the only advantage of the SQE.

Will this have an impact on any GSAs that are applied for in this cycle?

tbf there are plenty of advantages of SQE, but perhaps not for the average member of this forum.

you can self-study SQE for a few hundred pounds, pay the £5k fees and that's cheaper than GDL.

SQE includes the entire GDL syllabus so GDL doesn't really serve much purpose and in the long run could just be scrapped.

Also you can sit SQE1 and SQE2 six years apart, and for example some employers accept SQE1 alone as proof of legal knowledge (which it is!) to work as a paralegal.

Law firms and the private law universities have chosen not to take much advantage, but in the long term it's likely that things will change more than they have already done.

I'd say the biggest problem is that SQE is far too expensive. The New York bar exam is only $250 ($750 for foreigners).

 

[FM302989]

Quick WG Assumption Q:

For humankind to survive, it must colonise other planets.
Assumption - There will be a time when the Earth can no longer sustain human life.

Am I right in saying that an assumption has been made here?

The only thing I can think of against this is that Earth may very well sustain human life, but not be sufficient. Then again, that would mean that it technically cannot sustain human life, and therefore, the assumption is made.

Also, if I were to invert this: There will be a time when the Earth can sustain human life, then the proposed statement becomes redundant, which should logically indicate that there is an assumption, no?

3.30 am yk, I hate these damn tests.

What is 'humankind'?

 

[trainee4u]

Quick WG Assumption Q:

For humankind to survive, it must colonise other planets.
Assumption - There will be a time when the Earth can no longer sustain human life.

Am I right in saying that an assumption has been made here?

The only thing I can think of against this is that Earth may very well sustain human life, but not be sufficient. Then again, that would mean that it technically cannot sustain human life, and therefore, the assumption is made.

Also, if I were to invert this: There will be a time when the Earth can sustain human life, then the proposed statement becomes redundant, which should logically indicate that there is an assumption, no?

Yes it has been made.

Logic:

1. Negate the assumption: "There will never be a time when Earth can no longer sustain human life."
2. Is the statement still valid? No, the statement is no longer valid - if the Earth will always be able to sustain human life, humankind can survive without colonising other planets.

 

[tomsmitg]

Hi, does anyone know how long it takes slaughters to get back with a decision after they contact your referee?

 

[g.cl.2020344]

Thank you for this! Please could you keep us updated in case they reply?

they said they have received sm applications and will respond in the coming weeks...

 

[User5678]

they said they have received sm applications and will respond in the coming weeks...

This makes me so anxious!!

 

[A worried graduate]

The proposal still needs to be implemented - it may not happen, especially given the backlash from many sectors.

It would also only apply to GSAs after a period of time after the proposal was implemented. It would not be backdated for programmes already in progress. Therefore it is unlikely to impact this cycle's GSA, but might stop the 2026 GSA programmes from being recruited. In any instance where anyone was impacted, firms/employers are likely to take people on as normal and fund the training directly or find alternative ways to train, such as the traditional SQE pre TC model.

What about firms recruiting now for 2026 GSAs who don't fund TCs?

 

[A worried graduate]

tbf there are plenty of advantages of SQE, but perhaps not for the average member of this forum.

you can self-study SQE for a few hundred pounds, pay the £5k fees and that's cheaper than GDL.

SQE includes the entire GDL syllabus so GDL doesn't really serve much purpose and in the long run could just be scrapped.

Also you can sit SQE1 and SQE2 six years apart, and for example some employers accept SQE1 alone as proof of legal knowledge (which it is!) to work as a paralegal.

Law firms and the private law universities have chosen not to take much advantage, but in the long term it's likely that things will change more than they have already done.

I'd say the biggest problem is that SQE is far too expensive. The New York bar exam is only $250 ($750 for foreigners).

Maybe the LPC with some sort of altered curriculum is what should have been needed (perhaps with the GDL being an optional prep course qualification)

 

[Jessica Booker]

What about firms recruiting now for 2026 GSAs who don't fund TCs?

Difficult to know exactly beyond either replicating the training model (just outside of the apprenticeship funding) or finding an alternative method.

Probably a good question to ask them at events or at interview, or to check in with the firm if you already have an offer from them.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Maybe the LPC with some sort of altered curriculum is what should have been needed (perhaps with the GDL being an optional prep course qualification)

The SRA won’t go back to the LPC - they need a model of assessment that assesses everyone in the same way, including foreign qualified lawyers and apprentices.

It’s likely to be an assessment rather than a course that needs to be completed for this reason.

 

[Andrei Radu]

I have a spring vacation scheme coming up, does anyone have advice on what I should be preparing in advance?

It seems like its heavily assessed, with group projects, a written task and another partner interview, but not sure what I should be focusing on in prep work!

Hey guys, ahead of my vac scheme at Goodwin I would really appreciate any good advice for maximising my chance of converting it into a TC. (For context the VS is a week long.)

My background is non-law and I have never done a vac scheme before so I would be going in blind in a sense. I'm also open to investing in any paid services that anyone would personally recommend.

I selected a few seat preferences but I haven't gotten any confirmation as to where I would be sitting. I know that there will be a written exercise task and a group assessment but that's basically all the info I have.

Separately, but quite randomly, I have been looking to reactivate my premium LinkedIn because I have ran out of personalised invites to send to Trainees at the firm but it's either £30 a month of £180 for a year. Is it worth the investment or should I seek alternative methods such as trying to email for a discount of leaving it altogether?

Hi @Starfish31 and @FoxStella in terms of general resources for preparation, I recommend the TCLA 'How to convert VS' course (this also helped me a lot when I was preparing last year) and the TCLA Accelerator Program, which I think is the best all-around resource in the market for this (providing tailored advice through Graduate Recruitment Presentations, Future Trainee Panel Discussions, Written Exercises, and 1-1 calls with Future Trainees). Besides this, I have quoted bellow a detailed post I made with my best tips both for individual preparation and conversion:

Hi @ACivilLawyer and congratulations on getting the VS, it is a huge achievement! I have collated bellow some of my best tips on maximizing conversion chances.

Firstly, consider doing the following in the preparation period before the vacation scheme starts:

1. Review you firm research and answers for motivational questions: in many of the conversations you will be having with people at the firm, and in particular with the more senior practitioners, you will likely be asked some questions around your interest in the firm and your general motivations and journey. While they will not be assessed like formal interviews, it is important to impress, or at the very least not to make a bad impression. Also, this will be a good opportunity to see if you can update and add any insights to your answers (ie you might mention a deal or award that the firm recently got) which will distinguish you from others.
2. Brush up on your commercial awareness: while the specific way commercial awareness matters for the purposes of conversion tends to differ on a firm by firm basis, it is almost always an important factor. As such, in the coming weeks before the VS I would pay extra close attention to business news and see if there are any updates I should be aware about on important topics (inflation and monetary figures, economic growth, capital markets and dealmaking activity, etc). At the same time, try to fill any gaps in your general knowledge of how businesses work, the different economic sectors, and the roles and functions of the different actors and instruments in the world of finance and investing. I highly recommend Investopedia to build up your knowledge of business jargon.
3. Research the practice areas you will sit in: once you find out what your seats will be, take some time to understand what it is exactly lawyers in those practices do - why do clients need their services, and how do those services differ from those offered by other practice areas? Furthermore, try to get an understanding as to how delivering those services works in practice: what are the different workstreams and tasks involved on typical client matters, and which of those are trainees/vacation schemers most likely to work on? For this, I highly recommend the Westlaw/Practical Law Introductory Practice Area Guides; they go in a lot more detail than you will be expected to know but are the most comprehensive resource I know of.
4. Reach out and build rapport with people at the firm: It is always a good idea to try to build rapport early with people at the firm. As such, you could consider sending a LinkedIn text/email asking for advice or a chat with a trainee at the firm, particularly if you have met them in the past. I would also target people who are currently doing a seat in the practice area you have been allocated, as they will be able to give you the best advice on preparation. Building rapport with them is also particularly important, as graduate recruitment tends to emphasize the reviews of people in your seat when collating input for a TC offer decision. However, avoid appearing overeager and annoying people with busy schedules. Be very straightforward about your intentions and show your appreciation for the time they decide to give to you.

As for what to do during the vacation scheme itself, I advise the following:

• Be confident: while it sounds very cliche, I think this is a key factor impacting conversion chances. Having gotten to this stage out of a huge pool of applicants, you should be certain of the fact that you are an exceptional candidate and have everything you need to succeed. However, I have seen many people simply get too intimidated by the context of a prestigious commercial law firm, which disabled them from showing their skills, knowledge, and personality. Aim not to do that: be active, ask many questions, and communicate your thoughts and views, even if you are not 100% sure they are completely accurate.
• Be proactive and do your tasks well: an important trait firms look for in candidates is enthusiasm and initiative, so you definitely try to show that. One of the best ways of doing it is not waiting to be given work, but proactively going around and asking for it. When receiving a piece of work, I advise you to ask for detailed instruction, useful resources, supporting or guiding materials (such as similar work products completed by others in the past), and details as to deadlines and the expected time this should take to complete. At the end, it is always good to ask for feedback and then to try to act upon it on further tasks.
• Find out what are the most important assessment criteria for conversion (particularly by speaking with grad rec or current trainees): Different firms have different policies - for instance, in my case conversion at Slaughter and May was 100% determined by the final TC interview and written task, at Willkie it was mostly determined by the quality of your work and your integration in the firm's culture, at Milbank it was a combination of the final assessment and the impression you left on people on your team. To maximize conversion chances, you should modify your approach to match the factors emphasized by each firm.
• Take notes and be reflective: as you go through the vacation scheme, at the end of each day, write down a short summary of what you did: who did you meet and what did you learn from them, what tasks did you work on, what sessions did you attend etc. Firstly, this will help you in better answering some of the common questions you get when interacting with people at the firm ('How are you finding the experience?' etc. Secondly, as you approach the final interview, this will help you with being reflecting about the experience and showing that you have taken all the opportunities the firm offered.
• Meet as many people as possible, particularly in your department, but do not overdo it. Of course, it is great to integrate yourself as much as you can and to make as many people as possible notice you. However, you should not be spending every second of the day inviting people for coffee chats. Firstly, there are many other things you should be doing, like getting involved in different workstreams, attending sessions, and deepening your relationship with people you have already met, such as your supervisor. Secondly, as you will know, lawyers are often very stressed and have very little free time on their hands. Most will accept coffee chat requests, but they will appreciate if you do not waste their time by asking to meet only with a view of getting them to potentially put in a good word for you. Thus, I would advise you to always have a genuine reason for meeting someone. That does not need to necessarily be work-related - you can simply ask for a coffee chat because you want to introduce yourself and get to know people in the firm - but you should be upfront about it. Furthermore, try to get an idea from your supervisor as to who is more and less busy at the moment and avoid targeting the former.
• Mirror the attitude of those around you, and know when to be more relaxed: a crucial element of succeeding in many vacation schemes is to be able to build rapport with a few important people - particularly your supervisor, one or two lawyers you will get to work more with, and the recruitment partners. Try to read the attitude and expectations of those people and do not always attempt to impress them. In my experience, the people who ended up not converting tended to be the slightly overbearing ones who wanted to be constantly seen. Sometimes, such as at an event over drinks or at a lunch, people will want to simply relax a bit and forget about work. Other times, they may be too busy and stressed to want to engage with you about something serious. They could and also many times do want to take a slightly more lighthearted approach when talking about their work, so try not to seem like you are taking yourself too seriously. From what I have seen, people more often fail in adapting to these circumstances rather that when adapting to more formal dynamics.

 

[Andrei Radu]

I have a spring vacation scheme coming up, does anyone have advice on what I should be preparing in advance?

It seems like its heavily assessed, with group projects, a written task and another partner interview, but not sure what I should be focusing on in prep work!

For your question more specifically, it is difficult to say what you should focus most of your efforts on as different firms weigh the assessments in different manners. If you can, I would advise you to reach out to current/future trainees to see if they have any advice and to ask what they think the firm places most emphasis on. Besides this, in deciding what to invest most of your preparation into, I would consider the following two factors:

1. Consider how well do you rate your skills for each of these types of assessment. You do not want to score excellently in any assessment at the cost of scoring poorly in any other, so I think you should aim for a good performance in each rather than an extraordinary performance in any given one. As such, it would make sense to invest more preparation time in developing the skills which you think are your weakest.
2. I would say that in absence of reasons to think the contrary, there is an argument to be made that the partner interview is the most important one to score well in. This is because partners are normally the ultimate decision-makers. If a given recruitment partner really liked and wants to hire you, it is unlikely the firm will choose to reject you just because you did not score as well as another candidate in the group exercise; although bear in mind this is more relevant in the case of smaller rather than larger offices, as the latter often have more standardized and formalized recruitment decision-making schemes.

 

[A worried graduate]

The SRA won’t go back to the LPC - they need a model of assessment that assesses everyone in the same way, including foreign qualified lawyers and apprentices.

It’s likely to be an assessment rather than a course that needs to be completed for this reason.

Didn't think about that aspect to be honest.

The price is the main issue at the moment from a fairness POV.