TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[trainee4u]

lol literally 77 mln Americans voted for Trump, and I feel that what you’ve described is not a controversial take at all, at least in the UK. There is no way this would impact UK hiring though, maximum what’s gonna happen is that US firm are gonna stop advertising DEI on their websites. But that’s already happened.

UK & US DEI practices have differed. For example, US universities discriminated against Asian & white and in favour of black candidates, known as "affirmative action" or "positive discrimination". For example, for Harvard, black students in the 70th-80th percentile of academic ability had a 41% chance of admission, whereas for white students it was 5%, and Asians 4%
This was found to be unconstitutional in 2023 by a partisan Supreme Court (split 6-3 by appointing party).

This has never been legal in the UK: you can only have "positive action".

Also affirmative action was created by Executive Order (of JFK), and they seem to do a lot more on the stroke of the Presidential pen (including/excluding sex in transgender, for example), whereas in the UK a lot of these things historically came from the ECtHR (e.g., the Gender Recognition Act 2004, following Goodwin), EU as well as primary legislation (which seldom gets rolled back).

 

[rapunzel]

It’s time for another one of Chris Brown’s very controversial posts. Please do not cancel me on the TCLA forum. Trigger warning: sensitive topics will be addressed. Viewer discretion is strongly advised. 😂

I will never understand Trump’s argument that DEI practices can be discriminatory. Who does he think is being discriminated against? It seems like it’s a very particular demographic of people in the USA that strongly dislike DEI practices and who believe they are somehow being discriminated against. It’s almost like if anyone gets hired who isn’t from that particular demographic, it must automatically mean they are a DEI hire and not the candidate with the best qualifications. 🥲

I thought the entire purpose of DEI was to prevent discrimination in the hiring and employment processes in workplaces? In the past, highly qualified candidates have been prejudiced against solely on the basis of their gender, race, religion, ethnicity, class and socioeconomic background. Even if they were the ideal candidate for the position, inherent biases would influence their employment prospects. 😕

I wonder if US firms will challenge Trump’s decisions and file a huge class action lawsuit. It seems he is simply going after law firms that supported opposing political parties. I’m sure Paul, Weiss was a huge advocate and sponsor for Kamala Harris’ presidential campaign. I am also fairly certain it’s the same situation for Perkins Coie, who represented Hilary Clinton in 2016 during that presidential campaign. 🤨

Does anyone know whether this US DEI stuff and Trump targeting US law firms will have a knock-on effect on their operations in the UK? In the case of Paul, Weiss, they have only just established a large scale English Law practice and this is their first graduate recruitment cycle. It will be interesting to see everything play out. 😬

I have attached the link to the article below for anyone who wants to read it:

Addressing Risks from Paul Weiss

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered:

www.whitehouse.gov

I read on the news that Goldman Sachs took away its targets to achieve a certain number of partners from a non-white background in the UK after they did in the US. It's definitely a scary reality but unfortunately I think when it comes to organisations with a strong US holding they may do the same in UK operations. Although it's important to say I have yet to see a law firm follow suit.

 

[latome19]

UK & US DEI practices have differed. For example, US universities discriminated against Asian & white and in favour of black candidates, known as "affirmative action" or "positive discrimination". For example, for Harvard, black students in the 70th-80th percentile of academic ability had a 41% chance of admission, whereas for white students it was 5%, and Asians 4%
This was found to be unconstitutional in 2023 by a partisan Supreme Court (split 6-3 by appointing party).

This has never been legal in the UK: you can only have "positive action".

Also affirmative action was created by Executive Order (of JFK), and they seem to do a lot more on the stroke of the Presidential pen (including/excluding sex in transgender, for example), whereas in the UK a lot of these things historically came from the ECtHR (e.g., the Gender Recognition Act 2004, following Goodwin), EU as well as primary legislation (which seldom gets rolled back).

Thanks, I will take your commentary as building on my previous post because I don't think you've said anything inconsistent with it (unless you think otherwise).

Now, if we want do to discuss what the US DEI experience means for the UK, I think there are two main points to consider (I will assume that my readers are well familiar with the history of DEI in the US). The following is my opinion only.

1. First, the practical/legal impact on recruitment in the UK by US firms, across law, banking, etc.. The US experience will not change the DEI situation in UK graduate recruitment in any meaningful way. This is because it has never been formalised to the extent that it has been in the US in the recruitment/admissions process itself (I'm not talking about Equality Act or anything like that here). The only way the changes in US domestic policies can impact the UK is through the voluntary self-censure of US firms in the UK (suddenly they start talking about DEI much less across all their global offices because they fear action from Trump administration). OR through antitrust enforcement or some other enforcement in the US. However, I believe that the latter is almost impossible because anything like that would not be enforceable in the UK.

2. Will the current American situation change the terms of how the DEI conversation has been playing out in the UK, particularly at US law firms in London? Yes and No. Even if they remove DEI from their websites, I cannot see graduate recruiters in the UK suddenly changing their own beliefs to abide by any law/directive that Trump administration adopts in the US. This is just silly. Of course, there are partner-level appointments, which are usually done by the US main office directly, which means that at that level, yes, DEI will cease to be part of the conversation. But just for as long as Trump's anti-DEI orders are in force. The same probably goes for some of the affinity groups at the associate level but I really doubt they are gonna be dislodged either in the UK or the US.

 

[desparate4tc]

Anyone heard back from OC insight scheme?

 

[trainee4u]

Thanks, I will take your commentary as building on my previous post because I don't think you've said anything inconsistent with it (unless you think otherwise).

Now, if we want do to discuss what the US DEI experience means for the UK, I think there are two main points to consider (I will assume that my readers are well familiar with the history of DEI in the US). The following is my opinion only.

1. First, the practical/legal impact on recruitment in the UK by US firms, across law, banking, etc.. The US experience will not change the DEI situation in UK graduate recruitment in any meaningful way. This is because it has never been formalised to the extent that it has been in the US in the recruitment/admissions process itself (I'm not talking about Equality Act or anything like that here). The only way the changes in US domestic policies can impact the UK is through the voluntary self-censure of US firms in the UK (suddenly they start talking about DEI much less across all their global offices because they fear action from Trump administration). OR through antitrust enforcement or some other enforcement in the US. However, I believe that the latter is almost impossible because anything like that would not be enforceable in the UK.

2. Will the current American situation change the terms of how the DEI conversation has been playing out in the UK, particularly at US law firms in London? Yes and No. Even if they remove DEI from their websites, I cannot see graduate recruiters in the UK suddenly changing their own beliefs to abide by any law/directive that Trump administration adopts in the US. This is just silly. Of course, there are partner-level appointments, which are usually done by the US main office directly, which means that at that level, yes, DEI will cease to be part of the conversation. But just for as long as Trump's anti-DEI orders are in force. The same probably goes for some of the affinity groups at the associate level but I really doubt they are gonna be dislodged either in the UK or the US.

I agree, and just to add there are differences at a statutory level.

In particular, s 1(1)(f) of the Legal Services Act 2007 has the objective of "encouraging an independent, strong, diverse and effective legal profession".

The SRA was created under the LSA, so it's absolutely woven into the SRA's DNA, and hence the profession as a whole. In addition, DEI policies can help firms avoid discrimination claims under UK law.

I'd add, incidentally, that I don't think graduate recruiters necessarily are very committed to any apparent beliefs: for example, a "well-being ambassador" and HR director at CMS was fired this week after posting "I hate Islam" and similar comments on Twitter. I'm sure he expressed his commitment to diversity in his day job, whereas in reality he (not-so) secretly despised it!

Fundamentally law firms want to make as much money as possible, and the extent to which pro bono, DEI, etc. are there to meet regulatory requirements/improve their brand image, as distinct from something they genuinely believe in, is difficult to prove with any certainty. However, for every Dan Neidle, who has retired from his 7-digit partner role to do something he believes in, there are 500 more partners who keep going 'til retirement, so my money is always on "it's all about the money". And with that said, there doesn't seem to be any money in conspicuously disavowing DEI as a law firm in the UK, and plenty of money in continuing to profess your commitment to it.

 

[billyonthespeeddial]

Has anyone got any good information on who HL‘s competitors are?

look into NRF for projects and finance, HSF for disputes

 

[jojo23]

Massive request to firms to get rid of maths questions on SJTs and other forms of assessments - we are law students for a reason, if we could do maths, we would just do maths 😵‍💫

Especially the Amberjack squad😭
We studied law to avoid maths💀

 

[Chris Brown]

Especially the Amberjack squad😭
We studied law to avoid maths💀

Aiming this post at Paul, Weiss and Stephenson Harwood. 👀​

 

[jojo23]

Aiming this post at Paul, Weiss and Stephenson Harwood. 👀​

Don't forget the devil (reed smith) 🤣

 

[jojo23]

Is it worth doing the vid interview part now at 1am (deadline 5pm sunday) or leave it to the morning 🤔 either way it'll be chaotic

 

[User5678]

Is it worth doing the vid interview part now at 1am (deadline 5pm sunday) or leave it to the morning 🤔 either way it'll be chaotic

I’d just do it now tbh. My anxiety would not allow me to leave it for the last day😭. But if you’d want to give it after waking up fresh in the morning go for it especially if you don’t have a busy day tomorrow! Do what works best for you as 5pm is not early and I’m sure you’d be able to complete it before that

 

[0livia.pope]

I’d just do it now tbh. My anxiety would not allow me to leave it for the last day😭. But if you’d want to give it after waking up fresh in the morning go for it especially if you don’t have a busy day tomorrow! Do what works best for you as 5pm is not early and I’m sure you’d be able to complete it before that

Would you be able to share if the VI prep time is timed/untimed?

 

[Law queries]

Hello,

I wanted to ask - in case I don’t meet the 2:1 criteria and have mitigating circumstances to support the same but do well in Capp test and WGT, do I have chance getting shortlisted at firm? How focused are they on grades?

Thanks!

 

[aphelion]

Ask and let us know the answer - because it's a joke if they don't.

When I went to their open day they reimbursed travel costs, so I would be surprised if they didn't do so for ACs

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Does anyone have any insight into Haynes and Boone - in terms of what to expect if you were a trainee at the firm? I can offer insight into other firms.

Hiya @👩🎓

It was a bit tricky to find detailed, recent information about Haynes Boone’s London office, even on resources like The Lawyer. Based on what I could see, they seem to be doing quite well in growing out their presence in the City. I'd highly recommend this profile in Chambers Student which sets out views/experiences of current trainees.

The firm is relatively new to the London market, having set up shop here in 2016. This was mainly to provide English law advice on international matters, and they've since grown significantly (with around 55 lawyers). The London office is now their fourth-largest office globally, after just a few years in the market. In fact, the firm had to move to bigger premises at 1 New Fetter Lane in 2019 due to this growth. The firm's merger with London-based shipping boutique Curtis Davis Garrard in 2016 was also a big strategic move, giving them deeper expertise particularly in shipping and energy matters (for which they're currently ranked Band 3 in the UK by Chambers UK).

According to their Chambers UK profile, the firm has developed quite a strong reputation in banking and finance, often acting on the lender side. Chambers currently ranks them highly (Band 2) for both their fund finance work, and their work in the lower/mid-market with lenders. More recently, they've expanded their capital markets practice by acquiring a large team from Memery Crystal. This shows a quite strong commitment to strengthening their transactional capability in London.

For applicants/trainees, you may want to keep their seat options in mind. The London office currently offers seats across contentious, finance & corporate, energy & shipping, and investment management practices. Overall (based on the few articles I've just skimmed through - they're all paywalled unfortunately), I think it's pretty clear that the London office looks like an increasingly important part of the firm's international strategy, and their recent moves suggest they're focused on continued growth and diversification in the City. Hope that helps!

 

[👩🎓]

Hiya @👩🎓

It was a bit tricky to find detailed, recent information about Haynes Boone’s London office, even on resources like The Lawyer. Based on what I could see, they seem to be doing quite well in growing out their presence in the City. I'd highly recommend this profile in Chambers Student which sets out views/experiences of current trainees.

The firm is relatively new to the London market, having set up shop here in 2016. This was mainly to provide English law advice on international matters, and they've since grown significantly (with around 55 lawyers). The London office is now their fourth-largest office globally, after just a few years in the market. In fact, the firm had to move to bigger premises at 1 New Fetter Lane in 2019 due to this growth. The firm's merger with London-based shipping boutique Curtis Davis Garrard in 2016 was also a big strategic move, giving them deeper expertise particularly in shipping and energy matters (for which they're currently ranked Band 3 in the UK by Chambers UK).

According to their Chambers UK profile, the firm has developed quite a strong reputation in banking and finance, often acting on the lender side. Chambers currently ranks them highly (Band 2) for both their fund finance work, and their work in the lower/mid-market with lenders. More recently, they've expanded their capital markets practice by acquiring a large team from Memery Crystal. This shows a quite strong commitment to strengthening their transactional capability in London.

For applicants/trainees, you may want to keep their seat options in mind. The London office currently offers seats across contentious, finance & corporate, energy & shipping, and investment management practices. Overall (based on the few articles I've just skimmed through - they're all paywalled unfortunately), I think it's pretty clear that the London office looks like an increasingly important part of the firm's international strategy, and their recent moves suggest they're focused on continued growth and diversification in the City. Hope that helps!

Hi @Ram Sabaratnam, thank you so much! This is incredibly useful to include in the application.

 

[capybara88]

Hi all, hope you're all well!

Don't usually post on here but I wanted some advice from ppl that I'm sure have been in a similar position! I recently had an AC at my dream firm and I just haven't been able to stop replaying what I said over and over again in my head, finding faults with it, wishing it had gone better. How do you all force yourself to kind of move on after interviews?

 

[camrxc]

Hi @Andrei Radu! Was wondering if you might be able to tag in some posts you’ve done in the past on the kinds of things that differentiates slaughter and may

 

[Chris Brown]

Hello,

I wanted to ask - in case I don’t meet the 2:1 criteria and have mitigating circumstances to support the same but do well in Capp test and WGT, do I have chance getting shortlisted at firm? How focused are they on grades?

Thanks!

I imagine it depends on the firm. I’m assuming this question is for Linklaters, who use both the Capp Test and WGT. To my knowledge, they ask for consistent 2:1 across all modules. They take into account MC, but they are quite focused on grades tbh. There are other firms like Travers Smith and Slaughter and May who are also very fixated on grades. I think firms like BCLP, CMS, DLA Piper, Irwin Mitchell, Hill Dickinson and Osborne Clarke don’t have a minimum A-level or degree requirement at all (although I’m not 100% sure if this is the case). Most firms will ask for a 2:1 but will consider MC. This means that they will still consider an applicant even if their overall degree average falls slightly below (e.g., high 2:2). I think if the rest of your application is strong alongside having strong test scores, most firms would definitely still consider you. Best of luck with all of your applications this cycle!​

 

[Maddy]

Hi! Did anyone hear back from Aspiring Solicitor's Sky work experience?