Thank you so much!!Hi @ACivilLawyer and congratulations on getting the VS, it is a huge achievement! I have collated bellow some of my best tips on maximizing conversion chances.
Firstly, consider doing the following in the preparation period before the vacation scheme starts:
- Review you firm research and answers for motivational questions: in many of the conversations you will be having with people at the firm, and in particular with the more senior practitioners, you will likely be asked some questions around your interest in the firm and your general motivations and journey. While they will not be assessed like formal interviews, it is important to impress, or at the very least not to make a bad impression. Also, this will be a good opportunity to see if you can update and add any insights to your answers (ie you might mention a deal or award that the firm recently got) which will distinguish you from others.
- Brush up on your commercial awareness: while the specific way commercial awareness matters for the purposes of conversion tends to differ on a firm by firm basis, it is almost always an important factor. As such, in the coming weeks before the VS I would pay extra close attention to business news and see if there are any updates I should be aware about on important topics (inflation and monetary figures, economic growth, capital markets and dealmaking activity, etc). At the same time, try to fill any gaps in your general knowledge of how businesses work, the different economic sectors, and the roles and functions of the different actors and instruments in the world of finance and investing. I highly recommend Investopedia to build up your knowledge of business jargon.
- Research the practice areas you will sit in: once you find out what your seats will be, take some time to understand what it is exactly lawyers in those practices do - why do clients need their services, and how do those services differ from those offered by other practice areas? Furthermore, try to get an understanding as to how delivering those services works in practice: what are the different workstreams and tasks involved on typical client matters, and which of those are trainees/vacation schemers most likely to work on? For this, I highly recommend the Westlaw/Practical Law Introductory Practice Area Guides; they go in a lot more detail than you will be expected to know but are the most comprehensive resource I know of.
- Reach out and build rapport with people at the firm: It is always a good idea to try to build rapport early with people at the firm. As such, you could consider sending a LinkedIn text/email asking for advice or a chat with a trainee at the firm, particularly if you have met them in the past. I would also target people who are currently doing a seat in the practice area you have been allocated, as they will be able to give you the best advice on preparation. Building rapport with them is also particularly important, as graduate recruitment tends to emphasize the reviews of people in your seat when collating input for a TC offer decision. However, avoid appearing overeager and annoying people with busy schedules. Be very straightforward about your intentions and show your appreciation for the time they decide to give to you.
As for what to do during the vacation scheme itself, I advise the following:
- Be confident: while it sounds very cliche, I think this is a key factor impacting conversion chances. Having gotten to this stage out of a huge pool of applicants, you should be certain of the fact that you are an exceptional candidate and have everything you need to succeed. However, I have seen many people simply get too intimidated by the context of a prestigious commercial law firm, which disabled them from showing their skills, knowledge, and personality. Aim not to do that: be active, ask many questions, and communicate your thoughts and views, even if you are not 100% sure they are completely accurate.
- Be proactive and do your tasks well: an important trait firms look for in candidates is enthusiasm and initiative, so you definitely try to show that. One of the best ways of doing it is not waiting to be given work, but proactively going around and asking for it. When receiving a piece of work, I advise you to ask for detailed instruction, useful resources, supporting or guiding materials (such as similar work products completed by others in the past), and details as to deadlines and the expected time this should take to complete. At the end, it is always good to ask for feedback and then to try to act upon it on further tasks.
- Find out what are the most important assessment criteria for conversion (particularly by speaking with grad rec or current trainees): Different firms have different policies - for instance, in my case conversion at Slaughter and May was 100% determined by the final TC interview and written task, at Willkie it was mostly determined by the quality of your work and your integration in the firm's culture, at Milbank it was a combination of the final assessment and the impression you left on people on your team. To maximize conversion chances, you should modify your approach to match the factors emphasized by each firm.
- Take notes and be reflective: as you go through the vacation scheme, at the end of each day, write down a short summary of what you did: who did you meet and what did you learn from them, what tasks did you work on, what sessions did you attend etc. Firstly, this will help you in better answering some of the common questions you get when interacting with people at the firm ('How are you finding the experience?' etc. Secondly, as you approach the final interview, this will help you with being reflecting about the experience and showing that you have taken all the opportunities the firm offered.
- Meet as many people as possible, particularly in your department, but do not overdo it. Of course, it is great to integrate yourself as much as you can and to make as many people as possible notice you. However, you should not be spending every second of the day inviting people for coffee chats. Firstly, there are many other things you should be doing, like getting involved in different workstreams, attending sessions, and deepening your relationship with people you have already met, such as your supervisor. Secondly, as you will know, lawyers are often very stressed and have very little free time on their hands. Most will accept coffee chat requests, but they will appreciate if you do not waste their time by asking to meet only with a view of getting them to potentially put in a good word for you. Thus, I would advise you to always have a genuine reason for meeting someone. That does not need to necessarily be work-related - you can simply ask for a coffee chat because you want to introduce yourself and get to know people in the firm - but you should be upfront about it. Furthermore, try to get an idea from your supervisor as to who is more and less busy at the moment and avoid targeting the former.
- Mirror the attitude of those around you, and know when to be more relaxed: a crucial element of succeeding in many vacation schemes is to be able to build rapport with a few important people - particularly your supervisor, one or two lawyers you will get to work more with, and the recruitment partners. Try to read the attitude and expectations of those people and do not always attempt to impress them. In my experience, the people who ended up not converting tended to be the slightly overbearing ones who wanted to be constantly seen. Sometimes, such as at an event over drinks or at a lunch, people will want to simply relax a bit and forget about work. Other times, they may be too busy and stressed to want to engage with you about something serious. They could and also many times do want to take a slightly more lighthearted approach when talking about their work, so try not to seem like you are taking yourself too seriously. From what I have seen, people more often fail in adapting to these circumstances rather that when adapting to more formal dynamics.
TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25
- Thread starter Jessica Booker
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When shoosmiths said they 'aim to get back to us no later than 6pm 28th feb' they were genuinely serious about leaving it to the last minute 💀💀
Hi @Jessica Booker, I'd love to get your insight on this. It's been one month since my AC. I know some people have received rejections pretty soon after and some have received offers in the past few weeks, should I email to ask for a response or just wait? Thanks!
- Sep 9, 2024
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Katten is a firm I am not that familiar with myself, but having looked around a bit I found the following:
- In the US, while not among the most profitable or largest firms, it is still a prestigious big law firm: it has an average PEP of around $2.2m (which is a bit lower than MC and around/above SC level in the UK) and follows the Cravath scale for associate salaries.
- Having been founded only around 50 years ago, it prides itself on having a very entrepreneurial culture;
- In London, it does not have the usual PE/ and capital markets/finance focus of most US firms. It's specialties are (based on Chambers and Legal 500 rankings) real estate, hospitality and leisure, and the lower mid market of corporate M&A.
- Sep 7, 2024
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Random food for thought…
There is a quiet moment before every decision that matters. A breath held between what is and what could be. In that very little space, the mind races… measuring risk, weighing failure, crafting excuses so elegantly they almost sound like logic.
It’s tempting to stay in that moment, to wait until doubt disappears, until certainty arrives wrapped in reassurance. But certainty never comes first. It’s not a prerequisite for action….it’s a product of it.
Every person you admire, every story that moved you, every legacy that lasts, was built by someone who stood at the same crossroads. Someone who felt the same scepticism, but stepped forward regardless.
Not because they were fearless. But because they refused to let fear be the author of their story.
I’ve been having a lot of these quiet moments lately, and out of nowhere…this thought struck me. So I figured I’d come here and share it too.
There is a quiet moment before every decision that matters. A breath held between what is and what could be. In that very little space, the mind races… measuring risk, weighing failure, crafting excuses so elegantly they almost sound like logic.
It’s tempting to stay in that moment, to wait until doubt disappears, until certainty arrives wrapped in reassurance. But certainty never comes first. It’s not a prerequisite for action….it’s a product of it.
Every person you admire, every story that moved you, every legacy that lasts, was built by someone who stood at the same crossroads. Someone who felt the same scepticism, but stepped forward regardless.
Not because they were fearless. But because they refused to let fear be the author of their story.
I’ve been having a lot of these quiet moments lately, and out of nowhere…this thought struck me. So I figured I’d come here and share it too.
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Application journey update:
Last Thursday: 65 applications, 48 rejections, 1 offer, 16 pending.
This Thursday: 65 applications, 55 rejections, 1 offer, 9 pending.
The firms that remain:
1. Howes Spercival
2. Withers (TC)
3. Simmons and Simmons
4. UN Legal Affairs Intern
5. King & Spalding
6. MoFo (probably rejections though, people have been interviewed months ago)
7. Shoosmiths (people got offers so basically PFO)
8. DACB (really low score in critical thinking test)
9. Latham & Watkins (still alive?)
Today's daily chest prize: Greenberg Traurig PFO (post-app) 🥳 🥳 🥳
Last Thursday: 65 applications, 48 rejections, 1 offer, 16 pending.
This Thursday: 65 applications, 55 rejections, 1 offer, 9 pending.
The firms that remain:
1. Howes Spercival
2. Withers (TC)
3. Simmons and Simmons
4. UN Legal Affairs Intern
5. King & Spalding
6. MoFo (probably rejections though, people have been interviewed months ago)
7. Shoosmiths (people got offers so basically PFO)
8. DACB (really low score in critical thinking test)
9. Latham & Watkins (still alive?)
Today's daily chest prize: Greenberg Traurig PFO (post-app) 🥳 🥳 🥳
loved reading this perspective, thank you for articulating in such a lovely way!
Has anyone heard anything from Winston and Strawn?
Also anyone else who heard back from Dechert after the Written Exercise?
Also anyone else who heard back from Dechert after the Written Exercise?
- Sep 7, 2024
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Hey @hfbjsdhfbhf ,
Just before @Jessica Booker gets back to you, I believe it may be best to hold off reaching out for now. I reckon firms are quite busy this time of year and are probably still receiving multiple applications/ conducting AC’s still. It could be that your AC was conducted early on in the cycle and feedback is still being collated. I completely get how the wait feels, but please try distracting your mind off it - going on coffee with friends, walks, or anything you enjoy really helps!
Do you guys think holding a TC offer would be an advantage on a paralegal application (similar to a stamp of competence) or a disadvantage as they know you will leave soon?
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- Sep 7, 2024
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Hiya @Bbhu19
Just wanted to jump in and add to what @Andrei Radu has already said. Completely agree, it's quite difficult to find much information about the firm. I've tried to put some research together based on a quick google search, and hoping the information below is helpful to you.
1. Financials: I just looked through The Lawyer's most recent market report on US firms in the City (unfortunately paywalled), and it mentions that Katten’s London office has seen significant growth in recent years (both financially and in terms of its headcount). In 2023, revenue grew by 16.9%, reaching $23.8 million and thus up from $20.3 million the previous year. The firm’s global performance also looks quite good, as total revenue climbed by 5.2% to $781.6 million.
2. Key Practice Areas: The Lawyer's market report also mentions that a major driver of Katten’s success in London has been its focus on transactional work, particularly advising U.S. financial services clients operating internationally. Transatlantic work has been a key growth area, now making up 37% of the firm’s UK revenue and this apparently went up from just 21% in 2021. You may want to look into the following transactional matters in which the London office was involved, which I've found through looking at their Legal 500 profile and the firm's website:
- Leonardo Hotel’s £65 million acquisition of the Grand Brighton Hotel
- Authentic Brands Group on its takeover of Hunter Boot Limited
- Nordic fund manager Areim AB on a €1.5 billion logistics joint venture across the EU
- They are currently advising the liquidators of Lloyds Pharmacy following its insolvency
This is just to help you get started on drafting answers to any application questions. Hope this helps and good luck with the application!
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- Sep 7, 2024
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Hey!
I don’t have much to Andrei‘s great response on this. I’ve quoted a post on the past which I made on this. Best of luck on the VS..!
Jessica Booker
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- Aug 1, 2019
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Depends on the role. Some fixed term contract roles will actively look for future trainees, while permanent roles may avoid them because they want someone longer term.
- Sep 7, 2024
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The way I see it, if the paralegal role is a FTC, and the firm is not looking to offer TCs off the bat of it, or some sort of QWE period, then you could mention it. It really just depends on the job specifications and what the firm is looking for, in my opinion.
Has anyone heard from DACB? they said we'd hear back no later than end of feb but tomorrow is literally the last day...
Gateley Manchester AC!!
At the end of my partner interview I was told that they'd have a meeting to discuss applicants on the 28th so I shouldn't expect to hear anything until early March
shoosmiths gave out offers??? Rue when was this???
- Sep 7, 2024
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Hey! This is a really good question in my opinion, and I think Saudi is a great option to consider in your answers. I remember talking about the expansion in the region during some questions that popped up in my cycle too.
The country is undergoing some major changes to grow its economy and reduce reliance on oil. This is part of Vision 2030, which is basically Saudi Arabia’s plan to bring in more foreign investment, create new industries (beyond oil), and make the country a more business-friendly place. A big part of this vision is attracting top law firms to set up shop in Saudi Arabia.
In 2023, Saudi Arabia made changes to its laws to make it easier for foreign law firms to operate there. For example, they reformed their Code of Law Practice to make things smoother for firms to get a license. But, there are still some conditions to follow, like having two partners based in Saudi Arabia for at least 180 days a year and ensuring that at least 70% of the lawyers in the office are Saudi nationals.
I believe the country is an attraction to law firms as it’s investing trillions into its economy, with $3 trillion in sovereign wealth funds. These funds need legal advice for big international deals. Plus, with the new Investment Law, foreign companies have more incentives to set up in Saudi Arabia, which means more business for law firms. The government is also offering benefits like tax exemptions and special permissions for firms that set up a Regional Headquarter (RHQ) in the country. An RHQ serves as the main hub for the entire Middle East and North Africa region, not just a local office.
And the deal flow is booming! Just look at Saudi Aramco’s IPO in 2019 which I think raised over $25 billion. There are more IPOs and high-value deals happening, which is creating lots of work for corporate lawyers.
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