TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[trainee4u]

Ok so apparently they send you a link AFTER you submit you app to add grades/work exp 💀 💀

apparently they BOUGHT this nonsense?

It says

"Software Powered by iCIMS"

Sure, I'd love to copy-paste "GCSE" nine times.

Yes, it's great that your form doesn't support more than one undergraduate degree, wow.

Also this:

Your application is not yet completed and will therefore not be reviewed, please be reminded that all application materials, including the application form (see link below), must be submitted before the deadline.

Also it says before the first submission

Please note you will not be able to view or amend your application once submitted. Please ensure to save a local copy of your application as required.

Also this:

"Within 24 hours you will receive an email with a link to the application form. Be sure to check your spam folder if you could not find it."

Within 24 hours?!

I submitted my application form after midnight, but the questions before; have no idea what's going on and the "ICIMS " doesn't give any indication, it says "last update 28/3", but I submitted my "application form" on 29/3, and received an acknowledgment as well. Honestly if the work-experience kid developed this: fine, but they've bought this in!!!



Also they're literally using RARE - who are Vantage - so why this ICIMS nonsense?

 

[Kenomy]

DWF vacation scheme invite yesterday post AC!

 

[Legallywhatever]

What is the best way to prepare for a VI? I've never done one of these before so have no idea what to expect!!

 

[User5678]

Just curious, what metrics or aspects should I look at when evaluating a firm's quality of training? I understand that there are differences such as US firms' emphasis on on-the-job learning, but how would I go about establishing an objective ranking?

People might prefer on the job learning but i think structured training is better and has a lot of advantages especially when you just start working in the legal field with no past legal experience (that was the case for me).

1. There was training everyday, and was completed over the course of 2 months (per seat) whether it’s for something as minor as using MS word or excel, they trained you to use that.

2. Best part - training was vv interactive, there were quizzes, you were given worksheets, there were PPT’s which made training fun!

3. Atleast two associates were giving the training per topic so you get a more holistic view of the topic. Also, every topic was taught by different associates and you met sooo many new people!!

4. Because i was the junior most (still a uni student), my supervisor waited for me to finish training on a particular topic because giving me a task which was related to that topic. I believe that was the case with trainees as well, but may be different as they’ve done their SQE LPC. (Really depends on your team tbf) and ofc this was not always the case and depends on client needs and the matters you are on. But your supervisor will guide you anyways.

5. Training is mandatory and you cannot miss it at any cost unless you NEED to be there for a client call, your supervising associate will usually take the call without you if you have training and update you later or if you are asked to attend the call, all training is recorded and you would have to see it at a later time.

6. All training sessions being recorded was an amazing plus point, if you miss training you can go back to it later and if you want to understand a topic again you can re watch the session! That really really helped me!!

7. They also provided nice coloured and structured booklets after every session containing what they taught us and I literally still have them w me coz I think they’re gonna be so helpful in the future hahaha

I can actually go on and on about this so let me know if you have any specifics that you want to ask!!

 

[Andrei Radu]

Could someone give a list of current commercial topics? Thanks!

This will of course not be exhaustive, but a few that come to mind are:

• Uncertainty around the US' tariffs policies and potential subsequent trade wars
• The sell-off in US equities and recent gains in European stock markets
• Geopolitical uncertainty around the end of the war in Ukraine, Gaza, and general reordering of relations following a shift in US foreign policy
• Inflation and monetary policy: good news in Europe, fears of stagflation in the US
• Budget deficit issues: high levels of debt in the US and Europe leading to spending cuts
• Uncertainty around returns on AI investments, with the Magnificent 7 stock valuation drops accounting for much of the S&P500 losses

 

[Chris Brown]

Does anyone here know how VS candidates can assess a firm to determine if it’s the right firm for them, during a VS? I know associates and partners will assess us but what kinds of things can and should VS’ers look for in a firm? I have a Spring VS fairly soon so starting to think about this in the event I am somehow able to convert it into a TC offer! Please help. 😅🥲

@Amma Usman @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam​

 

[Jessica Booker]

Does anyone here know how VS candidates can assess a firm to determine if it’s the right firm for them, during a VS? I know associates and partners will assess us but what kinds of things can and should VS’ers look for in a firm? I have a Spring VS fairly soon so starting to think about this in the event I am somehow able to convert it into a TC offer! Please help. 😅🥲​

I think it’s just about each individual vacation scheme student considering what’s important/non negotiable for their career and then making sure they either look for those elements for the scheme or at least ask different people about their experiences that would demonstrate those elements.

There will always be an element of firms showing off their best aspects in a scheme. Vacation schemes themselves are rarely a true insight into the realities of being a trainee, so trying to get a more in-depth insight by asking questions to those who are in the reality is usually a good approach if you aren’t able to observe it.

 

[Legallywhatever]

I think I could genuinely cry with how badly my amberjack test went. I'm trying to be kind to myself in that it was my first experience with anything of this sort, but I am so disappointed and upset

-apologies for the self pity

 

[tianna09]

has anybody heard back from weightmans summer vac scheme?

 

[trainee4u]

Could someone give a list of current commercial topics? Thanks!

varies I think; sometimes they want to know about specific legal developments in a sector. Other times it could be a deal. For example try understanding the purchase of X (formerly Twitter) by xAI.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Does anyone here know how VS candidates can assess a firm to determine if it’s the right firm for them, during a VS? I know associates and partners will assess us but what kinds of things can and should VS’ers look for in a firm? I have a Spring VS fairly soon so starting to think about this in the event I am somehow able to convert it into a TC offer! Please help. 😅🥲​

As @Jessica Booker said, while a VS is an amazing opportunity to gain insight into what your life at the firm could look like, there is only so much you can experience in a few weeks. It will be very difficult to assess some important elements, such as the level to which you enjoy the work and the high-pressure tight-deadlines environment. As a vacation schemer you can only be trusted with so much, and in most cases no one in the firm will be really relying on your work product or will generally treat you like a real trainee. In truth, when deciding if a firm is right for you/deciding between different firms you are doing a VS with, I think there are two aspects to consider:

1. Differences on paper: how good a firm is in the practices that interest you, their financial position, their strategy, their approach to training etc. These are all points you will have already been aware of and considered at the application stage, so in theory they should be a good fit. While discussing them with practitioners during the scheme might give you further insight, particularly in regards to how the firm compares to its competitors, this is not something is likely to dramatically change your view about how good of a fit it is "on paper".
2. Intangible differences: this is I think the true benefit of a VS - to give you a chance to see whether you feel you are a fit for the place "in practice". This will simply come down to how you feel day to day at the firm. You will have heard endless talk of "firm culture" and seen so many firms describe theirs in almost identical manners and might be tempted to think "cultural fit" should in many cases just be a non-factor. However, from my experience it is true that there are relevant differences between social dynamics at different firms. In some places people tend to be social and outgoing; in others more reserved and focused on work. In some firms partners tend to be very serious, while in others they will take themselves way less seriously and be a lot more willing to joke around with associates and trainees. In some places you will see a higher degree of competitiveness and individualism, while in others people focus on the team more; in some firms, associates will seem to be quite passionate about their work, whereas in others they will be more cynical; in some, people will be more relaxed, in others they will tend to be hyper-ambitious. However, it is difficult to make reliable generalizations. Sometimes, the dynamics can differ more on a department by department basis rather than a firm by firm bases; and in many cases your assessment will also be greatly influenced by your luck regarding the particular people you will get to interact more with. In my opinion, the best you can do is to try to engage with as many people as you can and get a feel for the firm as a whole, and then simply see how comfortable you feel in that space. Fundamentally, and as it happened in my case, I think the question of fit tends to come down to a gut feeling more than anything else.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Just curious, what metrics or aspects should I look at when evaluating a firm's quality of training? I understand that there are differences such as US firms' emphasis on on-the-job learning, but how would I go about establishing an objective ranking?

I do not think there is any way to establish an objective ranking regarding quality of training. When you compare individual firms you can look at reports like those done by Legal Cheek, but I do not think they are very reliable, in that a disproportionately high number of firms has an A or A* ranking for training quality. You could also try to ask people at the firm about it, but once again, unless you have a close relationship with a given practitioner, you will likely only hear words of praise across the board. As such, it seems to me difficult to decide between firms based on this criterion.

The one exception I would say is in choosing between a US and UK firm. The US and UK model each has its set of advantages and disadvantages; and the extent to which one ends up deemed 'better' will greatly depend on each person's skillset and individual preferences. On the side of the UK training model, as mentioned by @User5678 we must note the benefits of comprehensiveness, rational organization of content and progress, and availability of many resources. Arguably, this means a UK firm-trained NQ is less likely to have missed out on understanding important aspects of work in their practice area.

On the US side, many argue that it involves more opportunities for more interesting high-responsibility work, enables you to develop valuable skills (when you have to simply find a way to deal with a new task by yourself), and to generally progress faster in your career. This is something even many practitioners at MC firms admit to - junior associates would tell me they sometimes come across trainees at US firms doing the same work as them on the other side. That does come with a significantly higher level of stress and pressure; it is definitely the case that with US firms there will be a lot less handholding. As such, perhaps the average person would have a more "enjoyable" training experience at a UK firm. Nonetheless, at a UK firm the jump to an NQ position feels a lot harder, as trainees will rarely get to work on the the type of matters associates do - one partner described the transition year as "the most difficult in my career, besides the first year I became a partner". In a US firm, the transition to NQ is said to feel a lot smoother, at the cost of a more demanding TC experience. Whether this is worth it is just a judgement call each applicant has to make.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi all! Does anyone have any advice when it comes to applying for paralegal roles (i.e., which firms to approach/how to stand out). Any help will be greatly appreciated!

I think to stand out in paralegal applications you will have to focus on many of the same aspects you would in a VS/TC application. In reviewing your work, I would advise you to do the following:

• Is your why the firm reasoning persuasive? Do you identify the firm's unique selling points and market position and explain why you prefer it to its rivals?
• Do you have a good why commercial law answer? Does your reasoning explain why you prefer law to any other career, and why you prefer working for business other than any other type of client?
• Do you sell yourself as a candidate by identifying your most relevant skills and achievements and explaining their importance for the job?
• Is your writing structured, clear, concise, and easy to follow?
• Do you link all your motivations and claims about skills with examples of experiences and achievement? Did you properly explain those experiences using a STAR structure?

Besides this, I think you should also ensure you show your understanding of the differences between the role of a paralegal and a trainee; and to explain why your motivations/skills at this stage make you a good fit for the former.

 

[A worried graduate]

I think I could genuinely cry with how badly my amberjack test went. I'm trying to be kind to myself in that it was my first experience with anything of this sort, but I am so disappointed and upset

-apologies for the self pity

I have tended to notice that firms rely on the amberjack/cappfinity tests less than what people think unless there’s a benchmark such as at Clifford Chance , Shoosmiths and some others.

VIs , the form and the CV / background carry more weight.

 

[BobThebIlly]

Hi guys! Just wanted to say Eid Mubarak to everyone who celebrates it! I know I’m going to enjoy it so I hope you all do too 😄

 

[Chris Brown]

Eid Mubarak to everyone that will be celebrating (either tomorrow or Monday)! I hope you guys all had a blessed and enjoyable ramadhan! 🥳​

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

DWF vacation scheme invite yesterday post AC!

What a way to start the weekend! Good luck with the scheme!!! Live your best unbothered life, staying hydrated and moisturised!!!

 

[Legallywhatever]

I have tended to notice that firms rely on the amberjack/cappfinity tests less than what people think unless there’s a benchmark such as at Clifford Chance , Shoosmiths and some others.

VIs , the form and the CV / background carry more weight.

I don't even wanna talk about how the VI went... I didn't think I would be nervous but when it came down to it??? Shaky, quiet voice was really in full force lol 😭

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Any disadvantages to doing an AC online for Vac Scheme ?

Hiya @LiveLaughLawyer


I think @Jessica Booker and @Amma Usman and @Andrei Radu might have more to add here, but wanted to get something to you. I'd just caveat that these are based on my own experiences, and they may not necessarily resonate with you (you might actually find you thrive in virtual ACs).
From my experience, I've sometimes noticed that it could be slightly more challenging to build rapport with others involved with the AC. In a physical setting, there are natural chances to chat with assessors and other candidates before the formal assessments start, during breaks, or over lunch. During virtual ACs, by contrast, I've found that the day can feel more formal and scheduled, which can make it easy to miss those small moments that help you connect with others more easily.

I'm generally a quite expressive person, and find it easy to communicate well on Zoom calls/chats. However, I've had several friends who've found it tougher to communicate clearly during virtual ACs. Body language doesn’t come across the same way, and making eye contact over Zoom just isn’t the same as when you're sitting across table from your interviewers. Some of my friends have mentioned that they've had a harder time 'reading the room' or telling how an answer/comment has landed, which can also make it more difficult to adjust in real time.

Finally, I’d just keep in mind that what feels private in a virtual setting isn’t always private. During one virtual AC I took part in, we found out that the internal messaging system was visible to graduate recruitment. This worked against a few candidates who had been a little too casual in their chats with others. It’s a good reminder to stay professional throughout and don’t assume that grad rec can’t see or read something just because it feels like a private space.

Good luck with the virtual AC!

 

[trainee4u]

Hiya @LiveLaughLawyer


Good luck with the virtual AC!

I assume from the question, perhaps wrongly, that LLL is doing a virtual AC for logistical reasons, while rival candidates are doing it in person. I might be wrong though?