TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[ohnoselim]

anyone thats doing a VI, how do you remember all this information?

I'm preparing for all types of questions but find it hard to remember in such a short time too

I know it's a no go to read off a screen, any advice?

 

[Dogsoooo]

Nerves of excitement for my AC tomorrow at Weil any final tips.

 

[elsx]

anyone thats doing a VI, how do you remember all this information?

I'm preparing for all types of questions but find it hard to remember in such a short time too

I know it's a no go to read off a screen, any advice?

Hi,
I usually write some words for the main points I want to make on a post it that I put near the camera so that I don't forget what I want to say without reading off a screen.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hello @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam @Amma Usman

Hope you are doing well!

I have an upcoming AC for Burges Salmon- in which there is a group exercise where we have to decide on the best investment option for a client and also present this later in a written exercise.

Would you have any advice on both these tasks?

Hi @FutureTraineeMaybe for the group exercise I think you need to strike the right balance between showcasing teamwork and collaboration but also demonstrating your capacity for commercial analysis and leadership. Since there is a tight time limit and since everyone will be aiming to show the same qualities, there is a natural tension between the two. As such, many candidates end up either being too passive (in not getting sufficient airtime because everyone else always wants to speak as well) or too assertive (in constantly interrupting others to get their points across). However, there are a couple of strategies you can use to ensure your individual contributions shine through without undermining others:

• Offer to keep the time: this shows a proactive attitude while not being very demanding as to your mental focus. It also enables you to (i) avoid taking the responsibility of any required writing, which is more demanding; and (ii) naturally intervene at certain points in the discussion to mention time considerations, which is also an opportunity for you to add substantive points.
• Try to introduce structure and organization: although many candidates will want to immediately start the analysis, instead of simply throwing yourself into discussing substantive points, try to introduce a framework: what points will you discuss, in what order, how much time will you spend on each, and what relevant assessment criteria should you keep in mind when analyzing the points? This will ensure a more comprehensive overview and a more clear output.
• Focus on finding more niche/less-obvious analysis points: as you are given a brief for the group exercise task, you will normally have a bit of preparation time during which you can think what points to bring up. You will find some points that are really intuitive which you will know the others likely also thought of. Instead of focusing on those and fighting with everyone to get to express those obvious points, I would use that time (and the extra thinking time in the initial discussion phase when everyone is fighting to say the obvious points) to find relevant ideas that others may have missed. The, as the discussion is winding down on that subpart of the task, I would mention these more niche points. This will avoid making you seem competitive and also showcase ability for more nuanced analysis.
• Focus on synthesis and weighing: another similar strategy for impressive contribution which may not require too much fighting over airtime is to once again seek to contribute as the discussion on the substantive points is winding down. What you can do here is intervene to summarize what everyone has contributed, weigh their points, and then make an informed argument as to what the decision should be.

For the written task, I will quote bellow a number of posts I have recently written with my best tips - but do let me know if you have any follow up questions. Best of luck !

While I think different strategies apply for different formats, there are a couple of pointers which I would say are generally applicable for all or almost all types of written exercises:

1. Time-management: You might have heard this so many times already, but I have to stress that most written exercises are incredibly time-pressured. I remember I was always told this, but it is very easy to forget during the actual assessment. In the first 20-30 minutes I have always to an extent or another allowed myself to be tempted by thoughts such as 'Oh it won't take me that long to read/write that part, I will just speed up a bit later' and I would thus justify being less efficient than I could have been in the first half of the exercise. As I would be entering the second half and nearing the end, I would invariably then find that it was very difficult to increase my working pace to make up for lost ground and my work product would suffer as a result. Thus, my advice is to be on your guard against that and to try to spread out your efforts evenly across the allocated time. Take one or two minutes in the beginning to make a plan and divide your workload, allocate portions of your time to completing the different parts, and try to make yourself to stick to those time limits.
2. Efficient reading: In a substantial number of written exercises you will be given a large number of documents containing overlapping information and also big sections of text containing technical details which are not of great importance to your task. Once again, there is a temptation to ignore the time constraints and to try to read everything closely to ensure you are not missing anything. However, in my experience the main task of the assessment very rarely or never hinges on easy to miss details. As such, my advice for you is to try to quickly read and skim through the documents, and only once you have a big picture go back and look at the relevant sections in more detail.
3. Analysis: Almost all written assessments have an analysis part, in which you are asked to weigh different considerations and make a judgement. I would advise you not to focus too much on trying to "blow away" the reader with the depth of your analysis or creativity of your arguments. Given the time constraints and nature of the tasks, there is rarely scope for that and if you focus to much on this kind of goal you might miss explaining much simpler points that should have been included in your analysis. As such, concentrate on considering the position of all relevant stakeholders (if you have issues doing this, drawing out diagrams can be very useful), having all the main pros and cons properly laid out, and weighing which set of considerations should you give priority to. If you can further support your opinion by making any links to current news stories or commercial trends, try to do so.
4. Clarity and structure: Finally, ensuring your answer is very easy to follow is a point whose importance I cannot overstate. A essential skill for a prospective trainee is an ability for clear communication, both verbally and in writing, and this type of assessment is how they test the later. As such, you should focus on having a simple writing style and structure as much as you focus on the substantive points you are trying to communicate.

Hey @AS24 I definitely am, their scarcity here has really taught me their value 🥲. On this brighter note, I will split up my thoughts between how to organize your time and then your ideas.

Organizing Time
To ensure you are managing your time well, before you start working through the exercise I advise you to take a few minutes to make a plan. First, take a look at the number of tasks and read the prompts. Then, briefly skim the annexed briefs and readings - but only very briefly. You want to see how many pages of readings you will have per task and how dense those look. Based on this information, make an estimation as to how much time each task or part of the exercise will take compared to the others - ie you might see the first task as requiring about twice the workload of the second and that the third is roughly the same as the second. Then, you should spend around 1/2 of your time on the first, around 1/4 on the second and another 1/4 on the third. However, before dividing the time using the relevant fractions, subtract around 10 minutes from the initial total time: 5 to account for the planning part at the beginning and 5 for contingencies and reviewing spelling and grammar at the end. I think this should be your basic approach, but do keep in mind these further considerations:

• You may want to make a further separation between the estimated necessary time to do the reading and the estimated necessary time to write your analysis for each part. One of the most significant issues I have had with written exercises has been giving in to the temptation to take more time than I should reading and taking notes; and simultaneously underestimating the time it would take me to write my analysis. In my experience, the materials in these exercises are not that difficult to work through and do not attempt to trip you up, so they do not require that much time. Thus, it might be a good idea to plan ahead how much you want to take on them: it should help you keep yourself in check during the exercise and not let your anxiety and overthinking make you waste precious time by reading the same passages again and again.
• You may not be able to estimate such a simple fraction split as in my aforementioned example. That is fine, and you definitely should not spend time overthinking this element. Simply go with your gut in making some judgement about the relative workloads and move forward with that. The most important part of this planning is not maximum accuracy in representation of the time each should take, but in providing a rough framework which will enable you to keep yourself to account and thus improve efficiency.
• If your tasks/parts of the exercise have different priority levels you should adjust your time allocation fractions. I would still aim to have a rough representation of what the workload of each involves but I would also allow adjustments to that to ensure a high quality work product for the most important ones.

Organizing Ideas
As for structuring your thoughts, it is unfortunately more difficult to give very concrete advice, as the right way to go about it will be highly dependent on the details of the exercise. My main advice is to find multiple distinctions between the different categories of information that you will be presenting ; and to organize them under multiple headings. The last thing you want is a huge block of text. It will almost always be more difficult to read and understand and will often also end up confusing your analysis as well. To give some examples of how you can go about this:

• Split the descriptive part of your writing (where you are essentially summarizing uncontroversial facts) and the analytic one (where you are advancing your opinion based on the aforementioned facts);
• If your argument is more complex, separate the analysis of the different inferential steps necessary to establish the conclusion;
• Separate the pros considerations, the cons considerations, and the synthesis view;
• Split your analysis of the different alternatives based on the facts;
• Separate your analysis of the relevant considerations based on their class (financial, legal, social, reputational etc) and based on the relevant class of stakeholders (shareholders, clients, the government, the public etc).

Of course, no piece of writing in an AC will need or be capable of supporting categorizations based on all the above. I have only listed some ideas to keep in the back of your mind; once you go through the actual exercise, you should be able to intuitively decide which is the most appropriate and easy for you to use.

 

[Mango]

Can Debevoise just send me a PFO so I can move on 😭

 

[delarse]

How many people have been offered a Vac Scheme at Withers. I did my interview and am now stressinggg

Same here for the Spring scheme. No response yet.

 

[jacksollaf]

Can Debevoise just send me a PFO so I can move on 😭

same tbf i was really really hoping to get an invite

 

[knight1999]

has anyone received a confirmation of receipt for their debevoise open day acceptance reply yet?

 

[g.cl.2020344]

does any1 know how many people get offered the ML VS or how many trainees the London offices takes on each year?

 

[Anon Lawyer]

Nothing since VI

When did you get the VI?

 

[applebunny]

Congratulations! Out of curiosity, when is your AC scheduled for?

Thank you! They asked for my availability across the next two weeks

 

[missfuturetraineemaybe]

No - I was fortunate in that the first TC offer I got was only expiring in September. The second spring offer was in theory only valid for three weeks, but I negotiated a longer period for consideration so that I am able to complete my summer vacation schemes. In practice, if you have multiple TC/VS offers you have a strong bargaining position, which gives you have a good chance of either being able to negotiate your way out of signing immediately or into being allowed to complete other VS even though you have already signed.

That’s great! So they wouldnt rescind your offer if you say you need more time to do other vac schemes?

 

[lina.b]

Hi guys, I have accepted an offer of internship through 10,000 Interns programme but my spring application for a VS has been switched to summer due to lack of spaces and I was offered an AC - if I were to get on the vac scheme would there be any consequences for backing out of the summer internship?

 

[simplyfaith]

anyone thats doing a VI, how do you remember all this information?

I'm preparing for all types of questions but find it hard to remember in such a short time too

I know it's a no go to read off a screen, any advice?

I found that once you've gone through a question bank of, say, 50 questions, you've covered 99% of what you might ever get asked. Anything else and you can usually figure something out on the spot, based on what you already know.

For me, the hard part was making sure I had an example for each question, as the sound of 50 answers for 50 questions was overwhelming. If you asked me, I'd go blank, even though I have tonnes of experiences. In reality, they don't all need to be unique, as long as you don't repeat examples to the interviewer. You just rehash the same dozen or so to fit by highlighting the relevant skills for the question.

With that in mind, you could try making a bank of personal examples, highlighting 2 or 3 skills or question type use cases (competency, motivational, situational, etc) for each. With a confident grasp of your examples, you can fit them to most scenarios. That's my take, at least!

 

[sapphireoreos]

Hi, I have an AC coming up next week. I wanted to get some thoughts on how to prepare for a CV-blind and application-blind interview. In such a case, can I recycle my answers from my applications, or is it unwise to do that? Similarly, how much in-depth research should I do into the firm? It's my first AC, and I'm really keen to get the VS. @Andrei Radu @Amma Usman any tips would be appreciated!

 

[theruleofno]

anyone heard from FF about TC AC post WG?

 

[Hskajab]

Hi everyone - anyone have any advice for the Goodwin interview? Any tips helpful as I'm struggling to find info on it

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi @Amma Usman ,@Andrei Radu and @Ram Sabaratnam hope you guys doing well. I got upcoming VS (my first ever offer). Just wondering if you my have tips/ trick for VS (ideally to convert it to TC)? Appreciate your suggestion !

Hi @Lalis, to list a few of my top VS conversion tips:

• Speak with people at the firm (particularly graduate recruitment, recruitment partners, and trainees) to find out what are the most important assessment criteria for conversion. Different firms have different policies - for instance, in my case conversion at Slaughter and May was 100% determined by the final TC interview and written task, at Willkie it was mostly determined by the quality of your work and your integration in the firm's culture, at Milbank it was a combination of the final assessment and the impression you left on people on your team. To maximize conversion chances, you should modify your approach to match the factors emphasized by each firm.
• Take notes: as you go through the vacation scheme, at the end of each day, write down a short summary of what you did: who did you meet and what did you learn from them, what tasks did you work on, what sessions did you attend etc. As you approach the final interview, this will help you with being reflecting about the experience and showing that you have taken all the opportunities the firm offered.
• Try to meet as many people as possible, particularly in your department, but do not overdo it. Of course, it is great to integrate yourself as much as you can and to make as many people as possible notice you. However, you should not be spending every second of the day inviting people for coffee chats. Firstly, there are many other things you should be doing, like getting involved in different workstreams, attending sessions, and deepening your relationship with people you have already met, such as your supervisor. Secondly, as you will know, lawyers are often very stressed and have very little free time on their hands. Most will accept coffee chat requests, but they will appreciate if you do not waste their time by asking to meet only with a view of getting them to potentially put in a good word for you. Thus, I would advise you to always have a genuine reason for meeting someone. That does not need to necessarily be work-related - you can simply ask for a coffee chat because you want to introduce yourself and get to know people in the firm - but you should be upfront about it. Furthermore, try to get an idea from your supervisor as to who is more and less busy at the moment and avoid targeting the former.
• Mirror the attitude of those around you, and know when to be more relaxed: a crucial element of succeeding in many vacation schemes is to be able to build rapport with a few important people - particularly your supervisor, one or two lawyers you will get to work more with, and the recruitment partners. Try to read the attitude and expectations of those people and do not always attempt to impress them. In my experience, the people who ended up not converting tended to be the slightly overbearing ones who wanted to be constantly seen. Sometimes, such as at an event over drinks or at a lunch, people will want to simply relax a bit and forget about work. Other times, they may be too busy and stressed to want to engage with you about something serious. They could and also many times do want to take a slightly more lighthearted approach when talking about their work, so try not to seem like you are taking yourself too seriously. From what I have seen, people more often fail in adapting to these circumstances rather that when adapting to more formal dynamics.

 

[g.cl.2020344]

Orrick WG!

 

[helloj]

Orrick WG - applied the day of deadline for anyone wondering!