UCL LLM vs. King's MSc: urgent help needed!

[ninadeoliveira]

Hey all!

My name's Nina, I'm an foreign qualified lawyer (graduated in the end of 2019) from a non common law country who aspires to become a lawyer and practice in the UK. A few months ago I posted here asking for help with my personal statement, and you guys helped me so much! 💕

I know that as a foreign qualified lawyer, I could just sit the SQE and become a solicitor, but I think going to uni first will make me more employable and a lot more confident as a future solicitor or barrister, so this is the route I chose.

I'm super happy because I got into both King's and UCL, but I'm also torn between the two.

The King's programme I applied for is called Law & Professional Practice, it's a MSc (not an LLM), lasts 2 years and will teach me the basics of England and Wales' law. It will basically teach me how to lawyer in the UK.

The programme I applied for at UCL is the general LLM, so I get to choose what modules I want to study - it lasts 1 year and it won't teach me the basics of UK law or prepare me for the SQE.

UCL is higher than King's on the rankings, and I think an LLM would sound better than a MSc on my CV.

However, I'm really worried I'll not know the basics and I don't know how on earth I can practice law without knowing the foundations.

From your point of view, which would be the smart decision? I am all by myself on this and I have no one to ask, so any advice and insight you can give me will be greatly appreciated. 💕💕💕

Thank you so much!

Ps: these are the links to the programmes' pages:

Law & Professional Practice - King's College London

The MSc Law & Professional Practice is a two-year postgraduate degree, with the first year available as a stand-alone Postgraduate Diploma.

www.kcl.ac.uk

Master of Laws (LLM)

On the Master of Laws (LLM) programme at UCL Laws, you’ll be joining a community of some of the brightest and most ambitious graduate students from all over the world.

www.ucl.ac.uk

 

[Romiras]

I don't think there will be much of a meaningful distinction between the two just based on what you actually learn or the branding.

The Kings MSc would give you a longer run way if you're using this to have a more favourable visa transition (from Student to Work or equivalent) (but also push out your journey as a lawyer and it would cost more) to apply for various cycles. It also seems substantively geared to being useful, although whether it is actually meaningful when compared to what you can learn by yourself (if you apply yourself in the right way) or what you'd learn on the SQE, I could not say. However, I know that as someone in practice, that what you'll learn is unlikely to be materially helpful.

UCL LLM will have a tighter runway (with respect to visa transitioning), which means it could be pretty intense (e.g. juggling apps, social life, studying, etc). UCL edges in branding but it's not really meaningful. Although more people would be familiar with the UCL LLM than the Kings MSc which appears quite new.

In theory you could learn the SQE material by yourself without doing either courses. You could also learn the SQE material alongside your degree, if you think you'll need more time to prepare for the SQE, you may be minded to take the option which gives you the most time. However, going straight into a law firm with just an SQE and a MSc / LLM is a relatively unusual path, as you would qualify for associate roles but you would not have any practical work experience bar your experience you have had as a foreign lawyer.

I would flag that you could always try for paralegal roles (if you have a visa) and apply to vacation schemes / training contracts in parallel. I have seen quite a few people find success with that, compared to those that I have seen going into further education and applying for the same opportunities.

 

[dinoorchestra]

I am currently doing the UCL LLM with the Intellectual Property Law specialism on part-time basis. In addition to what Romiras has already said, I think it is important to note that the LLM at UCL is a 10 month degree, if you do it full-time: it is a very busy degree and you should not expect to get much time to do other things such as applications - time management in that regard is possible but important. There is no time to complete your research essay over the summer either, as would be the case for some 12 month LLM degrees. However, coming from a different legal background should not be a concern. Most students in my cohort (I share my modules with full-time, part-time and flexi students) have done their undergraduates in other countries, including Spain and China amongst others, and do still perform well. Speaking from my own experience, I do like the module variety that you can choose from and it is interesting to be able to dive a bit deeper into topics of interest.

I suggest that you should make this choice based on your own preferences, as ultimately it is you who will have to complete the degree and realistically the law firms will see merit in both of them at the end of the day. If you are looking to dip your toes into learning about professional practice and might benefit from the visa circumstances, I'd go with Kings. If you are interested in a more academic approach and like the modules UCL LLM offers (you can scroll through the catalogue any time), I'd go with that one, if you think that the stress will not be a problem for you. You do not necessarily miss out on legal experience either, as you can apply for pro-bono placements with the UCL Center for Access to Justice to get some professional experience (which is what I did).

Either way, best of luck!!

Edit: I wanted to add, that in my experience LLM's are not useless. I have gotten my first VS this year and it was the year that I started my LLM. I do not think that it is a coincidence. Even if it was not directly my application form including my postgraduate education that made an impression, I think that my LLM did show my passion in law in the interview more clearly, as obviously you learn to articulate your interest in a more meaningful way.

 

[johnjohn1997]

I am currently doing the UCL LLM with the Intellectual Property Law specialism on part-time basis. In addition to what Romiras has already said, I think it is important to note that the LLM at UCL is a 10 month degree, if you do it full-time: it is a very busy degree and you should not expect to get much time to do other things such as applications - time management in that regard is possible but important. There is no time to complete your research essay over the summer either, as would be the case for some 12 month LLM degrees. However, coming from a different legal background should not be a concern. Most students in my cohort (I share my modules with full-time, part-time and flexi students) have done their undergraduates in other countries, including Spain and China amongst others, and do still perform well. Speaking from my own experience, I do like the module variety that you can choose from and it is interesting to be able to dive a bit deeper into topics of interest.

I suggest that you should make this choice based on your own preferences, as ultimately it is you who will have to complete the degree and realistically the law firms will see merit in both of them at the end of the day. If you are looking to dip your toes into learning about professional practice and might benefit from the visa circumstances, I'd go with Kings. If you are interested in a more academic approach and like the modules UCL LLM offers (you can scroll through the catalogue any time), I'd go with that one, if you think that the stress will not be a problem for you. You do not necessarily miss out on legal experience either, as you can apply for pro-bono placements with the UCL Center for Access to Justice to get some professional experience (which is what I did).

Either way, best of luck!!

Edit: I wanted to add, that in my experience LLM's are not useless. I have gotten my first VS this year and it was the year that I started my LLM. I do not think that it is a coincidence. Even if it was not directly my application form including my postgraduate education that made an impression, I think that my LLM did show my passion in law in the interview more clearly, as obviously you learn to articulate your interest in a more meaningful way.

Hello, you are qualified as a solicitor after SQE, so you can technically apply for NQ/associates role in law firm, may I ask why you wold like to apply VS instead?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hello, you are qualified as a solicitor after SQE, so you can technically apply for NQ/associates role in law firm, may I ask why you wold like to apply VS instead?

Finding NQ roles in England and Wales will be tricky for most candidates if you do not have 2 years experience working with English law.

One of my major issues with the SQE system is it makes foreign qualified lawyers trying to enter the UK job market over qualified but under experienced. For many candidates, completing VS and TCs would be the best route for them instead of a NQ role.