PGDL at BPP is awful

[shadow-demon]

Why are there not more people on this forum talking about how awful the PGDL at BPP was this year? Surely it would be useful for people considering between BPP and ULaw if we were more honest and open about our experiences?

If you are self-funding and have the choice, stay away from them like the plague. It wasn't just the online teaching element that was awful, you can tell the course was designed last minute with the amount of errors and lack of knowledge of the teaching staff about anything.

I could truly write an essay with all the issues I have had with them, maybe I will if there is demand from people wanting to know the real tea!

 

[poppyia]

this is my current plan so that is really concerning to hear! what would you recommend instead?

 

[Nnu]

I agree! so so awful. one of my biggest regrets I think! ULAW I hear is the way to go!

 

[shadow-demon]

I could write a whole essay on how awful they were. The only good thing was the tutors, and that was because I was in the sponsored cohort of students who were treated a lot better and given higher quality tutors than the self-funded groups who were given rubbish tutors and were in class sizes ranging from 20-30 students.

I would go with ULaw. The course looks better and is more structured.

BPP also do not provide any handouts/manuals or textbooks, so you are on your laptop for almost 12-13 hours daily staring at your screen trying to do the prep work. From also looking at the content and specification of the modules on the GDL at ULaw it looks a lot easier and straightforward than the content taught by BPP.

A lot of us in my group did really well but that was not a reflection of BPP but a reflection of the individual hard work put in to understanding the content, which you pretty much have to teach yourself as they do not do lectures. They only do workshops which focus on going through the tasks quite quickly, instead of teaching you the law.

A lot of people are under the DELUSION that BPP have strong links with law firms, and that because lots of law firms send their trainees to BPP, they will get a training contract/pupilage. This is ABSOLUTELY false. They have no ties or connections at all. This is all false marketing crap that they like to vomit out. The only reason why so many firms send their trainees to BPP is because it is cheaper than ULaw. The firms are aware of the issues we have had with BPP this year but their hands are tied because of the long contracts they have already signed with BPP.

All firms care about is your grades and where you go to sit the GDL does not matter in the grand scheme of things.

The provider you choose for the GDL really doesn't matter, so go where you think is best. I was not able to choose where I could go as my firm has an agreement with BPP to send their trainees there. If you do decide to take the risk and self-fund then please go anywhere else but BPP!

One more word of warning. If you do fail a module on the PGDL and have to retake, you can only get a pass overall on the PGDL. This is even if you got distinctions in 7/8 of the other modules. I believe this is completely unfair and I have never heard of such a policy at any other GDL provider or university in general.

Happy to answer any more specific questions you may have, as it is quite hard to write so generally about them, as I am trying my best to wash out the negative experience out of my system!

 

[Jessica Booker]

It really isn't as simple as BPP being cheaper. From my experience, that wasn't the case anyway - the prices for law firms were pretty comparable between BPP and UoL.

The attraction for law firms was that BPP was providing a bespoke LPC course that worked particularly well for those firms, both in terms of content but also timings with accerlerated courses. BPP also have a pretty good reputation of delivering the PSC for firms to their trainees (during the training contract).

The GDL is often just an added on service to those courses, which ultimately are seen as more important in getting right (in my opinion and experience).

Having done many events with BPP as a recruiter in various law firms, I think it is also a little bit strong to say they don't have good links to law firms. They ultimately do on a number of different levels - whether it be careers events, professional training, or lawyers in firms being alumni of BPP and vice versa.

I do agree that their marketing is often not ideal, but to be fair all law school providers (and other educational institutions) do this - it isn't unique to BPP. They massage the figures to include people who secured jobs before they started the courses and that presents an unrealistic reality for those who are self-funding. But I have seen how big brand name Russell Group universities massage their graduate employment stats in a very similar way. Lies, damn lies and statistics for you though....

Failing a module and it being capped at a pass is an exceptionally common approach - I would say this is normal/default. It won't be specific to BPP again. I haven't heard of universities not taking this approach unless the candidates has extenuating circumstances (and even then there is usually a policy/process that means the resit is seen as the first sitting).

I get the concerns with BPP more generally, especially with how they have dealt with students over the last 15 months, but a lot of what is said above outside of this is unfounded in my opinion and experience.

 

[shadow-demon]

It really isn't as simple as BPP being cheaper. From my experience, that wasn't the case anyway - the prices for law firms were pretty comparable between BPP and UoL.

The attraction for law firms was that BPP was providing a bespoke LPC course that worked particularly well for those firms, both in terms of content but also timings with accerlerated courses. BPP also have a pretty good reputation of delivering the PSC for firms to their trainees (during the training contract).

The GDL is often just an added on service to those courses, which ultimately are seen as more important in getting right (in my opinion and experience).

Yeah ok fair enough but that doesn't really take away from the fact that they are rubbish and should be avoided like the plague. In addition, that really wasn't my main point anyway.

ULaw also do bespoke courses, e.g. linklaters and US firms being a case in point.

These 'bespoke' courses you mention are rubbish. They made a bespoke module for the sponsored cohorts for the PGDL, which was complete rubbish and a waste of time. A lot of students from different groups also found the foundational legal skills' module to also be a waste of time. It is just slideshows of information that can be found online anyway.

I know you are a recruiter and have way more knowledge and experience than me on this subject, but one search online is more than enough to find all the backlash and controversies BPP have been involved with this year alone. They should not be allowed to get away with their awful and shoddy performance.

There seems to be a disconnect between BPP, the law firms and the students that have no choice but to go to BPP. BPP are really good at bullsh***** their way through things through their clever use of marketing to make it seem like they have the most amazing course and facilities, which is far from the case.

I challenge you to find one person that only has positive things to say. (spoiler: they do not exist).

My aim of starting this specific thread was to shine some light on how awful BPP is so those that are self-funding and have a choice do not make the same mistake of going with BPP.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Yeah ok fair enough but that doesn't really take away from the fact that they are rubbish and should be avoided like the plague. In addition, that really wasn't my main point anyway.

ULaw also do bespoke courses, e.g. linklaters and US firms being a case in point.

These 'bespoke' courses you mention are rubbish. They made a bespoke module for the sponsored cohorts for the PGDL, which was complete rubbish and a waste of time. A lot of students from different groups also found the foundational legal skills' module to also be a waste of time. It is just slideshows of information that can be found online anyway.

I know you are a recruiter and have way more knowledge and experience than me on this subject, but one search online is more than enough to find all the backlash and controversies BPP have been involved with this year alone. They should not be allowed to get away with their awful and shoddy performance.

There seems to be a disconnect between BPP, the law firms and the students that have no choice but to go to BPP. BPP are really good at bullsh***** their way through things through their clever use of marketing to make it seem like they have the most amazing course and facilities, which is far from the case.

I challenge you to find one person that only has positive things to say. (spoiler: they do not exist).

My aim of starting this specific thread was to shine some light on how awful BPP is so those that are self-funding and have a choice do not make the same mistake of going with BPP.

They might be rubbish to you, but they might be a necessity for the law firms in question. They are the ones picking up the bill at the end of the day....

Indeed, other providers provide bespoke courses. But how bespoke they are to what specifically each firm needs will vary from provider to provider and firm to firm. By nature bespoke courses will be different to one another, and it means they will suit some firms better than others.

BPP won't be good at bullsh***ing their way with law firms. I have been in meetings with them with people who have been partners for decades. I can't really see a BPP rep being able to blag their way out of issues with people who are savvy enough to reach partnership.

I would challenge you to find someone who would only have positive things to say about any educational institution.

We appreciate your efforts. We feel conversations like this should be had. But my aim for being here is telling people the realities of how these things work.

 

[shadow-demon]

They might be rubbish to you, but they might be a necessity for the law firms in question. They are the ones picking up the bill at the end of the day....

Indeed, other providers provide bespoke courses. But how bespoke they are to what specifically each firm needs will vary from provider to provider and firm to firm. By nature bespoke courses will be different to one another, and it means they will suit some firms better than others.

BPP won't be good at bullsh***ing their way with law firms. I have been in meetings with them with people who have been partners for decades. I can't really see a BPP rep being able to blag their way out of issues with people who are savvy enough to reach partnership.

I would challenge you to find someone who would only have positive things to say about any educational institution.

We appreciate your efforts. We feel conversations like this should be had. But my aim for being here is telling people the realities of how these things work.

Fair enough. I respect your opinion, especially as you have experience on these issues. I just wish more could be done to hold institutions like BPP to account. They have handled the whole pandemic thing awfully. We have complained to BPP, the SRA and our law firms about all these issues and more, and nothing has changed. I only hope with things going back to face-to-face teaching, things will improve. Thank you once again for your opinion though, it is nice to see things from a different perspective.

I just want to end on letting anyone that does find this thread to carefully think about whether going to BPP is the right thing to do because right now, there are many fundamental issues that they refuse to resolve or even engage with. Do not expect any support or guidance from BPP or the lecturers themselves. You need to be switched on from day one and keep up with the work. If you fall behind, it is extremely hard to catch-up.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Fair enough. I respect your opinion, especially as you have experience on these issues. I just wish more could be done to hold institutions like BPP to account. They have handled the whole pandemic thing awfully. We have complained to BPP, the SRA and our law firms about all these issues and more, and nothing has changed. I only hope with things going back to face-to-face teaching, things will improve. Thank you once again for your opinion though, it is nice to see things from a different perspective.

I just want to end on letting anyone that does find this thread to carefully think about whether going to BPP is the right thing to do because right now, there are many fundamental issues that they refuse to resolve or even engage with. Do not expect any support or guidance from BPP or the lecturers themselves. You need to be switched on from day one and keep up with the work. If you fall behind, it is extremely hard to catch-up.

Undoubedtly any institution not doing a good job is at high risk at the moment. With the SQE coming in, all these long-term contracts will ultimately be ending and although new contracts will be signed, they will undoubtedly have strong review processes in place with break clauses in them if standards are not met.

To be brutal, I don't think the GDL will be any firm's priority at the moment. The course will effectively become redundant in its current format in 7 months time. The firm will care about whether their trainees are passing the courses or not, and also the mental health/well-being of their incoming trainees. They won't really be concerned about some of the basic things that would have made your learning experience better, because, put frankly they have bigger fish to fry. They will have to prioritise the more important stuff.

Sames goes for the SRA who also have a lot on their plate at the moment but who are generally useless when it comes to pretty much anything.

 

[shadow-demon]

**Deleted post**

Thank you so much for articulating some of my concerns and issues better than I could. I completely agree with everything in this post.

 

[shadow-demon]

Thank you so much for articulating some of my concerns and issues better than I could. I completely agree with everything in this post.

Why was the post by GottaLoveit deleted???

 

[Jessica Booker]

Why was the post by GottaLoveit deleted???

They chose to delete the post, so you would need to ask them why they posted it and then deleted it.

 

[whisperingrock]

Theres a new article on the telegraph which says that BPP also fudges their graduate outcome numbers. BPP claims that 98.1% of their graduates are in employment or further study on their website, but the article says 69.2% of BPP students have failed to secure anything of the sort. Link
(screencap because the telegraph is paywalled)

May all of these private unis crumble.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Theres a new article on the telegraph which says that BPP also fudges their graduate outcome numbers. BPP claims that 98.1% of their graduates are in employment or further study on their website, but the article says 69.2% of BPP students have failed to secure anything of the sort. Link View attachment 3356
(screencap because the telegraph is paywalled)

May all of these private unis crumble.

Interesting that UoL is even worse….

As I understand it though, the data is only for those coming out of their first degree so wouldn’t apply to people doing the GDL/LPC, which is why the stats might be different.

 

[whisperingrock]

I still find it incredibly misleading. They're touting those numbers on their site which is actively marketing undergraduate courses as well.

 

[Daniel Boden]

I still find it incredibly misleading. They're touting those numbers on their site which is actively marketing undergraduate courses as well.

It's like any statistic though isn't it, they can be manipulated so many different ways

 

[whisperingrock]

It's like any statistic though isn't it, they can be manipulated so many different ways

Naturally but I would expect better from an educational institution.

 

[Nnu]

Naturally but I would expect better from an educational institution.

I agree.
I think its understandable that we would want to balance the view of Bpp seeing as they are one of few legal education providers, but for that very same reason they are able to manipulate and extort students into feeling they have no choice but to attend, pay very high fees and generally feel very very unhappy whilst there.
I dont think there's a single person ive met while studying there, before and after who liked or had a good time there.
I can say VERY different things for where I did my undergrad - so no, not everyone says the same thing about all unis.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Naturally but I would expect better from an educational institution.

They all do it.

From how they collect the data to the ways they get around the classifications, it all is manipulated by every single university that has to report into the Office for Students.

One way is getting students into employment with local businesses for a very short period of time while the survey is happening and for the university to pay their salary! Wonder why universities run short courses in the new year? That is another reason!

 

[whisperingrock]

They all do it.

From how they collect the data to the ways they get around the classifications, it all is manipulated by every single university that has to report into the Office for Students.

One way is getting students into employment with local businesses for a very short period of time while the survey is happening and for the university to pay their salary! Wonder why universities run short courses in the new year? That is another reason!

And yet the private providers are ranked among the very worst in nearly every metric when you look at the raw data. So I thinks it's a bit of a false equivalence

Not to mention that graduate employment is a very specifically defined term....