PGDL at BPP is awful

[Jessica Booker]

And yet the private providers are ranked among the very worst in nearly every metric when you look at the raw data. So I thinks it's a bit of a false equivalence

Not to mention that graduate employment is a very specifically defined term....

That is your view. From seeing it from the other side, I don't agree. The ways in which the data is manipulated is multi-facaeted and in many cases complex. Even getting a sample of 50 students and "massaging" their status can have significant changes in how you are ranked against other universities.

I am only talking about employability though. If you want to get into a debate about other metrics outside of employability, thats a whole different discussion.

 

[whisperingrock]

I don't understand what there is to not agree with. I am not speaking from opinion. I am speaking about the actual data, particularly what was released by the Office for Students recently. I accept that there are various factors involves and am open to the fact that I may be misinterpreting something. However, if what you're saying is true and all university's are massaging their data, it is even more damming for BPP and Ulaw to be ranked so poorly. Couple misleading data with the fact that said unis spend a far larger percentage of student fees on marketing than other universities do, and you have a situation just as Nnu described, with students being effectively lied to to enroll in these courses which are more expensive with poorer outcomes.

I also really don't understand what your position is here. Should we not criticize BPP because "other unis massage data too"? Do you think that the data on BPP is inaccurate?

 

[Jessica Booker]

I don't understand what there is to not agree with. I am not speaking from opinion. I am speaking about the actual data, particularly what was released by the Office for Students recently. I accept that there are various factors involves and am open to the fact that I may be misinterpreting something. However, if what you're saying is true and all university's are massaging their data, it is even more damming for BPP and Ulaw to be ranked so poorly. Couple misleading data with the fact that said unis spend a far larger percentage of student fees on marketing than other universities do, and you have a situation just as Nnu described, with students being effectively lied to to enroll in these courses which are more expensive with poorer outcomes.

I also really don't understand what your position is here. Should we not criticize BPP because "other unis massage data too"? Do you think that the data on BPP is inaccurate?

The disagree comment was on your false equivalence comment.

I don’t have a position. I am just explaining things from my experience.

 

[shadow-demon]

I think most of us can agree that BPP is a fundamentally terrible educational establishment! I have been to three other universities before doing the PGDL, and I have never had to deal with the amount of problems, stress and drama that I have had to in the last 7 months. I know many other students feel the same way.

I feel like if you haven't done the GDL/LPC or other course at BPP, you haven't experienced the pain and misery they inflict on their students. The whole "it is covid and universities have had to adapt the best they can" does not fly with me either. BPP said many times they have world-class technology and were prepared for continuing their "world-class" teaching, which is a big fat lie.

There is some shady s*** happening at BPP, how did they triple their profits this year? By cutting costs in every corner by refusing to provide copies of books and study materials, despite advertising that they would do so, alongside scheduling the exams so close together as a cost-cutting measure. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to give students 1 week of revision once lectures were over to revise for 4 exams that were pretty much back-to-back. This was much worse in term 2 with the splitting of the exams and added coursework.

There was also no adjustments made for covid this year. Many of us have been locked up in our rooms studying for god knows how many hours without any support or guidance. The pandemic has been hard on all of us, but it is a shame BPP refuse to acknowledge the pandemic and only do so when it suits their excuse making agenda.

No university is immune to scandal and controversy, but come on, how can any of you defend them after all of these scandals that have all happened since 2019. I cannot be bothered to go back any further as wasting energy on BPP is not worth it. Google these headlines yourselves if you want to read more. This is just a taster of the terrible and awful controversies they have been involved in:

1. "LPC students demand refund after severe lockdown failures"
2. "The universities where most students fail to land a graduate job after their degree"
3. "JLD backs BPP students in battle over law school's lockdown actions"
4. "Profits treble at locked-down BPP"
5. "Private university company under investigation for deceiving students"
6. "Scandal hit owner of BPP set to sell up for $1.1 billion"
7. "BPP University to be sold" (for the 100th time lol)
8. "BPP Law School's Problematic Dress Code speaks to a wider problem in our legal system"
9. "BPP Law students demand refund after alleged coronvirus lockdown failures"
10. "BPP Accused of withholding exam results from indebted students"
11. "BPP warned by Wikipedia for disruptive editing"
12. "Student anger as BPP shuts Holborn campus for essential maintenance"
13. "Employment tribunal awards former BPP Law lecturer £168k"
14. "Inns of Court student presidents write to BPP over teaching concerns"
15. "BPP rebuffs claims it proitorised study materials for consortium TC holders"
16. "BPP students' frustration over exam clash with winter vac scheme dates"
17. "A group of anonymous BPP students have published an open letter complaining about LPC lockdown failures"
18. "BPP students aren't happy about having to do without hard copy course materials"
19. "BPP gives students option to sit LPC exam or delay"
20. "BPP Law School apologises after ‘technical fault’ sees LPC students receive advocacy exam materials 48 hours late"
21. "BSB investigate after BPP ‘error’ left some BPTC students sitting ethics exam in ‘canteen’"
22. "Government confirms BPP apprenticeship suspension"
23. "Ofsted criticises BPP’s apprenticeship programme"
24. "BPP equity and trusts exam disturbed by ‘pumping music’ so loud ‘the desks were vibrating from the bass"
25. "BPP criminal law exam delayed by over an hour due to shortage of question papers"
26. "BPP forced to replace this Friday’s BPTC opinion writing exam after students were accidentally sent a video recording of two tutors discussing mark scheme"

DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY GOING TO BPP IF YOU ARE SELF FUNDING!!!! I have heard some issues with ULAW. However, most of the students I have spoken to over the years did enjoy their time and found it much better than BPP if they had gone to both for whatever reason!

I am not going to waste any more energy, as I am pretty sure going to BPP this year honestly made my depression come back, and I still have not recovered since exams finished almost a month ago. These scandals that would come out each day whilst studying was highly demoralising. What was worse is that the tutors refused to acknowledge any of these issues and would often pretend like they had no clue what we were talking about, which made the situation worse.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do your own research about going to BPP. I have to laugh at those on linkedin that say "omg im so proud to get an offer to study the PGDL at BPP"... they literally let anyone and everyone in. The application form and 'personal statement' is a tick box exercise. I'm sure even a dog could get an offer to study the PGDL/LPC at BPP. Judging by some of the very very poor scores from the first term exams by some of the candidates, it does seem like they let in people that have no business even sitting the GDL or LPC!

 

[Deleted member 11573]

this is my current plan so that is really concerning to hear! what would you recommend instead?

I completed the PGDL at BPP this year. For anyone considering it, I would take all of the horror stories with a pinch of salt.

Take, for example, people complaining about not being given statute books. As many law firms are going completely paperless, I think that this is something you simply have to adapt to. Being able to read documents online is a given for a future-facing lawyer- can you really complain about that?

BPP's PGDL is a level seven qualification, which made it slightly more difficult than ULaw's level six GDL which ran this year. The PGDL is intense and you have to work consistently 9-5 to not fall behind. I found balancing job applications/ interviews incredibly difficult alongside trying to complete all the reading, workshops and consolidation tasks. If you take a load of 2.1 graduates, place them in a high-pressure environment where they need to treat it as a 9-5 job to do well, of course, people will complain. I found it to be far more challenging than my degree, and I had to work much harder to do well.

I can come out of the PGDL saying it was very difficult but ultimately BPP gave everyone all the tools to gain a distinction. Their careers team have also been fantastic and I've had several mock interviews to prepare me for applications. I self-funded the PGDL and I have absolutely no regrets. If you have any other questions about the PGDL, feel free to ask me.

 

[whisperingrock]

I completed the PGDL at BPP this year. For anyone considering it, I would take all of the horror stories with a pinch of salt.

Take, for example, people complaining about not being given statute books. As many law firms are going completely paperless, I think that this is something you simply have to adapt to. Being able to read documents online is a given for a future-facing lawyer- can you really complain about that?

BPP's PGDL is a level seven qualification, which made it slightly more difficult than ULaw's level six GDL which ran this year. The PGDL is intense and you have to work consistently 9-5 to not fall behind. I found balancing job applications/ interviews incredibly difficult alongside trying to complete all the reading, workshops and consolidation tasks. If you take a load of 2.1 graduates, place them in a high-pressure environment where they need to treat it as a 9-5 job to do well, of course, people will complain. I found it to be far more challenging than my degree, and I had to work much harder to do well.

I can come out of the PGDL saying it was very difficult but ultimately BPP gave everyone all the tools to gain a distinction. Their careers team have also been fantastic and I've had several mock interviews to prepare me for applications. I self-funded the PGDL and I have absolutely no regrets. If you have any other questions about the PGDL, feel free to ask me.

To touch on your first point, people were unhappy about not being given materials because it was something the university had promised them at the beginning of term before enrollment, and then had exams be open book without actually giving students the books needed. From a diverrsity and inclusion perspective, this is horrifying. Those who could afford to print materials were immediately put over those who could not all because of BPPs selfishness and lies.

The second part of your comment reads an awful lot like "those complaining are just people who couldn't handle the pressure". I came 1st in the cohort in the first term of LPC exams during my time at BPP and 5th overall, all while writing apps, working, and volunteering for two charities. I finished my undergraduate degree with a first as well while being a full time athlete. I can handle pressure. What I couldn't handle was actively being lied to, being given incomplete or often incorrect information, having learning support not answer my emails, having tutors teach poorly, and having very necessary information be obfuscated in every possible way. And I was one of the lucky and privileged people who did not have to worry about paying my rent or meals, have caring obligations, have a disability that was more difficult to accomodate, etc. You are equally speaking from a position of privilege because it sure sounds like you had the means to comfortably be a full time student, but you seem to lack the self awareness to realise that other people are not you.

I'm glad you didn't have a poor experience, but to undermine those who did and insult them by saying they are only complaining because they couldn't take it isn't a great look.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I'm glad you didn't have a poor experience, but to undermine those who did and insult them by saying they are only complaining because they couldn't take it isn't a great look.

There is nothing in the post to say they are undermining other people’s experiences or that people who are complaining couldn’t do the course.

Please think carefully about how you personally interpret posts before replying.

 

[whisperingrock]

There is nothing in the post to say they are undermining other people’s experiences or that people who are complaining couldn’t do the course.

Please think carefully about how you personally interpret posts before replying.

"If you take a load of 2.1 graduates, place them in a high-pressure environment where they need to treat it as a 9-5 job to do well, of course, people will complain."

Jessica, I say this with as much respect as I can possibly muster, but please don't give advice on reading comprehension.

 

[shadow-demon]

There is nothing in the post to say they are undermining other people’s experiences or that people who are complaining couldn’t do the course.

Please think carefully about how you personally interpret posts before replying.

To be fair that’s exactly how I took the post.

 

[Jessica Booker]

"If you take a load of 2.1 graduates, place them in a high-pressure environment where they need to treat it as a 9-5 job to do well, of course, people will complain."

Jessica, I say this with as much respect as I can possibly muster, but please don't give advice on reading comprehension.

I still can’t see how this sentence proves either of your points.

 

[whisperingrock]

I still can’t see how this sentence proves either of your points.

I have neither the time nor patience to break down the comment word for word. You not getting it says far more about you than it does us.

 

[Jaysen]

"If you take a load of 2.1 graduates, place them in a high-pressure environment where they need to treat it as a 9-5 job to do well, of course, people will complain."

Jessica, I say this with as much respect as I can possibly muster, but please don't give advice on reading comprehension.

It's fine that you have strong opinions, but you also need to allow other people to have other opinions without personally attacking them. You seem to have a big issue when it comes to disagreeing with the content of someone's post without making snide remarks about their character.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I have neither the time nor patience to break down the comment word for word. You not getting it says far more about you than it does us.

Please keep your posts respectful as you seemed to say you would muster that quality only a couple of posts earlier.

 

[Jaysen]

I’m going to lock this thread as this has derailed due to personal arguments between members (that have now been deleted). Feel free to open up a new thread if anyone would like to continue the substance of the discussion.