LPC or SQE?

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks for this Jessica - so just to clarify, the LPC will likely still be available as an option in 2022?

With covid and the SQE transition it does seem an especially tricky year. The only concern I have with not starting the SQE/LPC this year is that I get older and then have to wait another year to start the route to qualification 😅

But most firms are recruiting a specific start date, usually 2-3 years advance (although this could change with the SQe too), so if you didn't secure a TC this cycle you’d most likely be applying for 2024 contracts. The qualification process isn't going to be determined really by when you the LPC, it's going to be determined by when you start a TC.

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker Hi Jess, I completed a law degree in the UK back in 2018 and since then I've finished an LLM abroad and come back to start working in the UK, and am currently applying for TCs (hopefully might secure one this year as I have 2 VSs coming up). Correct me if I'm wrong, but since I completed my law degree already, that technically means I am eligible to do the standard route (i.e. LPC, not SQE) at any time up until like 2030?

Do you know if firms might insist on me doing the SQE with them anyway, even if I would be eligible to do the LPC, just to be in the same group as my future trainee cohort?

Yeah - up to 2032.

These are the conversations you need to have with firms. Some will be strict on the route you will take, some will have flexibility. A lot of firms don't want dual qualification processes though, and given the LPC exempts you from SQE1 some firms will just move all their trainees to the new system rather having people come through both.

 

[Velikilawyer123]

Yeah - up to 2032.

These are the conversations you need to have with firms. Some will be strict on the route you will take, some will have flexibility. A lot of firms don't want dual qualification processes though, and given the LPC exempts you from SQE1 some firms will just move all their trainees to the new system rather having people come through both.

Ah got it! But just to clarify, what do you mean by dual qualification process? When would someone be in a position to do that? If, say, I complete the LPC this year, as long as I complete my TC / PSC by 2032, I won't need to worry about the SQE at all, no?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Ah got it! But just to clarify, what do you mean by dual qualification process? When would someone be in a position to do that? If, say, I complete the LPC this year, as long as I complete my TC / PSC by 2032, I won't need to worry about the SQE at all, no?

I don't mean dual qualification processes for individuals - they only need to take one of the two routes. I meant some firms won't want a cohort of trainees coming through two different qualification processes.

You might need to worry about the SQE if the firm you are qualifying with tells you that's the route they will put you through.

 

[Velikilawyer123]

I don't mean dual qualification processes for individuals - they only need to take one of the two routes. I meant some firms won't want a cohort of trainees coming through two different qualification processes.

You might need to worry about the SQE if the firm you are qualifying with tells you that's the route they will put you through.

Got it, makes sense. Thank you.

 

[Jessica Booker]

The qualifying work experience under the SQE gives much more flexibility compared to the training contract of the LPC. You can get qualifying work experience through a placement throughout your law degree, working in a student law clinic, or as a paralegal, even before the SQE is even introduced.

You can, but there is a major but here.

Law firms are not going to recognise your law clinic work as comparable work to what a trainee would do in a large commercial law firm. There is a major risk that people who seek their QWE outside of the type of firms/environment they want to qualify into will be over qualified but under experienced.

This is what happens a lot with accountancy and some finance roles. People gain some experience and complete their ACA/CFA qualifications off their own back, and then they are deemed over qualified for a graduate programme.

If you pass the SQE and try to apply for qualification with previous legal work experience prior to graduating, many firms won’t know what to do with you. It’s the dilemma many international qualified lawyers have had for years with the QLTS.

 

[Jane Smith]

I have a connection in a city firm who says they are very very keen their future "trainees" get all exams passed including SQE2 before starting the 2 years of training and they do not want it to be like accountants (working whilst exams to be done). So I suspect for those firms who feel the same it will continue pretty much as now - course for SQE1, take SQE1, then course for SQE2 and take SQE2 and only if and when you pass does your sponsoring law firm let you start the 2 years of training with them (and presumably if you fail just as with the LPC you lose your training place)

 

[Jane Smith]

I know someone involved in a city firm recruitment who says that firm is very keen exams are all done before the 2 years of training for their future "trainees" once SQE is in place so it would be much the same as now - training course for SQE and then SQE1 exams then the same for QE2 and if you pass those exams the sponsoring law firm then lets you take up your 2 year training place. That does not mean all firms will do it that way however.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I have a connection in a city firm who says they are very very keen their future "trainees" get all exams passed including SQE2 before starting the 2 years of training and they do not want it to be like accountants (working whilst exams to be done). So I suspect for those firms who feel the same it will continue pretty much as now - course for SQE1, take SQE1, then course for SQE2 and take SQE2 and only if and when you pass does your sponsoring law firm let you start the 2 years of training with them (and presumably if you fail just as with the LPC you lose your training place)

The interesting thing is not all law firms are taking this approach though. I suspect in time the firms who choose this route will become less popular an will also have diversity issues, as I know many candidates would prefer to earn a proper salary and balance that with studying, rather than get caught up in more debt trying to live off a relatively low maintenance grant that for some people won't even cover their rent. Qualifying early and getting on to a NQ salary earlier is also likely to appeal.

 

[hd112211]

This is a great thread and the insights are really helpful.

I have a question about QWE, specifically overseas work experience. According to the SRA guidelines, overseas work can count towards QWE:

”Work experience can be obtained in England or Wales or overseas and it does not need to cover English and Welsh law.”

Does anyone have any insight into the practical aspects of using overseas work experience to fulfil the QWE quota? I realise that since we haven’t even had the first set of SQE exams yet the answer is probably no, but I thought there is no harm to ask.

Also following on from @Jessica Booker reply about QWE making you over qualified but under experienced for graduate legal positions. Does this mean that if your QWE is paralegal/legal consultant work or above in the practice area relevant to the firm then this puts you in good stead following SQE2?

 

[Jessica Booker]

This is a great thread and the insights are really helpful.

I have a question about QWE, specifically overseas work experience. According to the SRA guidelines, overseas work can count towards QWE:

”Work experience can be obtained in England or Wales or overseas and it does not need to cover English and Welsh law.”

Does anyone have any insight into the practical aspects of using overseas work experience to fulfil the QWE quota? I realise that since we haven’t even had the first set of SQE exams yet the answer is probably no, but I thought there is no harm to ask.

Also following on from @Jessica Booker reply about QWE making you over qualified but under experienced for graduate legal positions. Does this mean that if your QWE is paralegal/legal consultant work or above in the practice area relevant to the firm then this puts you in good stead following SQE2?

If you are not dealing with English law but qualify via the SQE route, it will be very difficult to find a NQ role in England/Wales, just because the market standard will be that you’ll be up against candidates who have two years experience dealing with English law.

It’s pretty impossible to say - no one has qualified via this route yet. Paralegal roles vary massively - some are very admin based and unlikely to compare to what a firm would offer trainees. Paralegal roles that are more sophisticated might meet law firms’ expectations more where it is more like that of a trainee.

However, just assuming your work is of a trainee level isn’t going to guarantee you a good chance of getting a NQ role. The work will have to be with the type of clients and the type of matters the firm deals with regularly. We see this issue with foreign qualified lawyers all the time in the current system and the QLTS.

 

[hd112211]

If you are not dealing with English law but qualify via the SQE route, it will be very difficult to find a NQ role in England/Wales, just because the market standard will be that you’ll be up against candidates who have two years experience dealing with English law.

It’s pretty impossible to say - no one has qualified via this route yet. Paralegal roles vary massively - some are very admin based and unlikely to compare to what a firm would offer trainees. Paralegal roles that are more sophisticated might meet law firms’ expectations more where it is more like that of a trainee.

However, just assuming your work is of a trainee level isn’t going to guarantee you a good chance of getting a NQ role. The work will have to be with the type of clients and the type of matters the firm deals with regularly. We see this issue with foreign qualified lawyers all the time in the current system and the QLTS.

Thank you @Jessica Booker !

 

[Jane Smith]

(Not sure why I posted a similar reply twice on this thread above......)

By the way, for the very few who go to a few of the bigger City firms this might be useful https://www.slaughterandmay.com/med...ity-consortium-graduate-flyer_may-2020_v4.pdf and seems to be consistent with what I was told. So 8 months for SQE1 (4 months PGDL and 4 months SQE 1 prep and exam) - a bit like current BPP PGDL which is Sept 2020- April 2021. Then just under 5 months to take course for and pass SQE2 - a bit shorter than accelerated 7 months LPC which those people at those firms currently do. Then once passed SQE2 people do their 2 years training at the firm.

However, as Jessica explains so well and helpfully, most people are not in those big firms.
It is a very difficult 2 years to take decisions on SQE or not if you are not sponsored.

My only interest is as a solicitor (a very old one) and with 2 London private practice solicitor children (one slightly involved in recruitment at a big firm) and with 2 extremely lucky younger children who are sponsored by me currently so I became interested in the existing and new routes to qualification.

Good luck to everyone making key decisions.