LPC or SQE?

[Carly]

Hi everyone, I’m new on here!

I have been figuring out who to talk to regarding this. I have been googled my way and it lead me to here...

So I graduated my law degree in 2018 and have had two years just working - a paralegal role.

I am now at the decision of whether to go back to uni in September and do the LPC or wait until 2021 and start the SQE.

I am really unsure what route to take as to be honest I don’t really know what the pros and cons are of each. I have friends who have done the LPC however I feel like I need other advice.

Some advice would be really appreciated.

Many thanks in advance!

 

[Jessica Booker]

LPC:
- Expensive
- once you have a training contract, you are practically guaranteed qualification
- bottle neck of opportunity is just getting the job in the first place
- fixed time commitment - the earliest you could qualify is 24 months after completing the LPC
- have to stick with one employer throughout your time

SQE:
- can train at more than one firm
- cheaper (supposedly)
- could take a shorter amount of time to qualify, especially if you utilise previous legal work experience
- lower pass rates of SQE assessments, so no guarantee of qualification

 

[amb98]

LPC:
- Expensive
- once you have a training contract, you are practically guaranteed qualification
- bottle neck of opportunity is just getting the job in the first place
- fixed time commitment - the earliest you could qualify is 24 months after completing the LPC
- have to stick with one employer throughout your time

SQE:
- can train at more than one firm
- cheaper (supposedly)
- could take a shorter amount of time to qualify, especially if you utilise previous legal work experience
- lower pass rates of SQE assessments, so no guarantee of qualification

Thanks Jessica, extremely useful!

Would you not say for SQE that there would be a bottleneck on qualification since qualifying is effectively easier than the current route, so we’d expect more to qualify under SQE route?

 

[Ratish S]

@Jessica Booker Are you able to comment on the likelihood of a 2023/4 TC (at a City law firm) operating similar to the current format (i.e. pass SQE 1 and 2, then 2 years of QWE) or more like accountancy (i.e. pass SQE 1, then two years of QWE alongside studying for SQE 2)?

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker Are you able to comment on the likelihood of a 2023/4 TC (at a City law firm) operating similar to the current format (i.e. pass SQE 1 and 2, then 2 years of QWE) or more like accountancy (i.e. pass SQE 1, then two years of QWE alongside studying for SQE 2)?

Id expect most firms to have moved to the SQE by that point most non-law graduates will only be able to take that route by then. Some firms might run both systems at the same time for a couple of years, but that isn’t straight forward and many firms want to avoid it where the graduates will have very different rights/training etc.

Firms are all taking different approaches though.

1) start work, pass SQE 1 within probationary period, complete 2 years of QWE, pass SQE2 within the 2 year period

2) pass SQE 1, start work, pass SQE2 within two years

3) Pass SQE 1 and 2, start work and acquire 2 years QWE and then qualify.

I don’t think there will be one model of the above that will be a majority.

 

[meshkat_babiker]

Hi

I am doing the LPC in September 2020 with ULaw, I think its a better option even though its expensive, simply because there is more certainty. For example, you have access to past-papers and can learn from experiences of past-students.

 

[Daniel Boden]

Hi

I am doing the LPC in September 2020 with ULaw, I think its a better option even though its expensive, simply because there is more certainty. For example, you have access to past-papers and can learn from experiences of past-students.

Agree on the certainty point - I didn't fancy being a guinea pig in this transition to be honest

 

[Jessica Booker]

There is a very useful long read here:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/sqe-analysed-qualifying-solicitor-from-2021-claire-jutsum

This seems to suggest as long as you are signed up to the GDL before September 2021, you could start a GDL in September 2021. I had been told you couldn’t start a course after August 2021... I’ll see if I can get clarity on this.

 

[IntrepidL]

Hi Jessica,

I was wondering if there is a general preference amongst law firms to select candidates who have not yet completed the LPC? Particularly, if they would prefer their future trainee intake to have completed the LPC together?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I was wondering if there is a general preference amongst law firms to select candidates who have not yet completed the LPC? Particularly, if they would prefer their future trainee intake to have completed the LPC together?

no - that’s not an issue. Their only question/concern will be what you will do with your time out if you could start a TC immediately and you have to wait 2-3 years for a TC with them. For the next couple of cycles, that maybe even more so the case for firms who will move the the SQE format, they could be questioning why you don’t find a firm who is happy to take you on a traditional training contract format.

 

[Jessica Booker]

no - that’s not an issue. Their only question/concern will be what you will do with your time out if you could start a TC immediately and you have to wait 2-3 years for a TC with them. For the next couple of cycles, that maybe even more so the case for firms who will move the the SQE format, they could be questioning why you don’t find a firm who is happy to take you on a traditional training contract format.

The person who wrote the article has written back to me and amended it. It seems the last GDL intakes will be September 2020 or January/February 2021 - however, if you have secured a TC before by August 2021 you may be able to still do the GDL where your training was committed to before the deadline. However, I am not sure how practical this is and that ultimately if you did the GDL in September 2021 it might just be as a "prep course" for the SQE. To me this is bizarre and just muddies the water even more though.

 

[Jessica Booker]

 

[Jessica Booker]

Interesting developments yesterday with the SQE...

You will now be able to do the GDL anytime up to 31 December 2021, as long as you accept a place by 31st August 2021 and you start the course on or before the 31st December 2021...

This basically means firms can now put non-law grads going through the recruitment process in the next cycle through the GDL/LPC/TC model after all - which completely changes the dynamic of recruitment for this cycle....

Also costs for sitting the SQE were announced.. SQE 1 is £1,558 and SQE 2 is £2,422. That obviously doesn't account for the costs of any prep courses though...

 

[flyingavocado]

Hi Jessica, thanks for all the useful information up there!

I am wondering if you know whether the qualifying work experience must be within England and Wales? I have solid 3 full years of trainee/associate level legal work experience at the overseas office of a few international law firms. My firms also have solicitors qualified in England and Wales who can sign off. Do you know if these could count towards QWE?

According to the SRA website the scope is broad, i.e. 'any experience...' so I would interpret it favourably, but it would be helpful to hear your opinion. Thanks!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica, thanks for all the useful information up there!

I am wondering if you know whether the qualifying work experience must be within England and Wales? I have solid 3 full years of trainee/associate level legal work experience at the overseas office of a few international law firms. My firms also have solicitors qualified in England and Wales who can sign off. Do you know if these could count towards QWE?

According to the SRA website the scope is broad, i.e. 'any experience...' so I would interpret it favourably, but it would be helpful to hear your opinion. Thanks!

It never needed to be in England and Wales (why so many firms offered international secondments for trainees) - so this is not an issue. The QWE can be anywhere as long as it is signed off by an lawyer who is qualified in England and Wales.

The thing you need to consider though is whether this will make you employable. I suspect for outside of the U.K., being Qualified in England and Wales will be a major advantage. However, if you are looking to work in the U.K., my concern is that having a lot of different experiences and not a formal training contract will not be attractive to many firms. There is a risk that you are deemed qualified but under experienced for a NQ role, but over qualified for a trainee role.

 

[flyingavocado]

It never needed to be in England and Wales (why so many firms offered international secondments for trainees) - so this is not an issue. The QWE can be anywhere as long as it is signed off by an lawyer who is qualified in England and Wales.

The thing you need to consider though is whether this will make you employable. I suspect for outside of the U.K., being Qualified in England and Wales will be a major advantage. However, if you are looking to work in the U.K., my concern is that having a lot of different experiences and not a formal training contract will not be attractive to many firms. There is a risk that you are deemed qualified but under experienced for a NQ role, but over qualified for a trainee role.

Thank you Jessica! Great insight. Perhaps the best way is to go for the traditional TC route and leave SQE as a back-up choice. Thanks for the reply!

 

[philjones]

Hi

I am doing the LPC in September 2020 with ULaw, I think its a better option even though its expensive, simply because there is more certainty. For example, you have access to past-papers and can learn from experiences of past-students.

True. But novelty of SQE isn't simply as being am alternative to LPC- it means you don't need a TC. If someone takes the LPC then struggles to find a TC- and remember that as time goes on, firms will be offering fewer and fewer Tcs- the only way to qualify will be to do take the SQE path. Only if you have TC offer is LPC the better option.

 

[JohanGRK]

True. But novelty of SQE isn't simply as being am alternative to LPC- it means you don't need a TC. If someone takes the LPC then struggles to find a TC- and remember that as time goes on, firms will be offering fewer and fewer Tcs- the only way to qualify will be to do take the SQE path. Only if you have TC offer is LPC the better option.

Genuine question here: If the number of TCs is going down, wouldn't this be because the number of NQ spots is also going down? Or do you think that firms will be more open to recruiting candidates who haven't done their two-year graduate programme? Also, which firms do you think this affects/applies to the most?

 

[Jessica Booker]

TCs actually haven’t existed for sometime! They are technically called “period of recognised training” and have been for some time. But TC is just the colloquial term used for familiarity.

In my view, “period of recognised training” will still exist and be the most popular method in the two year format, just relabelled as QWE (qualifying work experience).

What is going to be far more interesting in how it affects numbers. I actually see “TC” numbers increasing as fewer people are going to pass the SQE. Like the banks and accountancy firms, more people will be hired and if they fail their professional exams they get kicked off the programme. Firms will plan on the basis of roughly X% failing each year and will plan accordingly.

Its going to be interesting in how it all plays out. Basically all structure has really done out the window, and although firms will minimise that risk by mimicking that structure, they are going to have various pressures on them to work around the structure at times.

 

[JohanGRK]

TCs actually haven’t existed for sometime! They are technically called “period of recognised training” and have been for some time. But TC is just the colloquial term used for familiarity.

In my view, “period of recognised training” will still exist and be the most popular method in the two year format, just relabelled as QWE (qualifying work experience).

What is going to be far more interesting in how it affects numbers. I actually see “TC” numbers increasing as fewer people are going to pass the SQE. Like the banks and accountancy firms, more people will be hired and if they fail their professional exams they get kicked off the programme. Firms will plan on the basis of roughly X% failing each year and will plan accordingly.

Its going to be interesting in how it all plays out. Basically all structure has really done out the window, and although firms will minimise that risk by mimicking that structure, they are going to have various pressures on them to work around the structure at times.

Yeah, I was trying to refer to it as a 'graduate programme' because I'm not sure as to what the official title will be.

The reason why I replied to the user is because I think that it's odd to suggest that firms that have been running training programmes for ages will stop doing those in favour of picking up people who have gathered work experience here and there. As you said, the TC bottleneck's just gonna turn into an NQ bottleneck for most firms