From Campus to Cubicle: Miss Piggy's Journey 🐽

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you so much! I know this may be a stupid assumption to have made but I thought that you simply had to qualify with the same firm you did your TC with. I am still unsure if that's the case or just a norm. Also, could I ask how difficult it is to leave a firm after the two years are over and look for other firms to take you in and let you qualify into a specific team? It's probably too soon to worry about this and I need to get a TC first lol but I am just worried about ending up in a situation where I am qualifying into a seat I don't want. So as long as I end up completing my two years as a trainee, I am good to seek out other NQ positions with different firms? Would they need me to have previous experience either as a paralegal or as one of my TC seats within that area? Thanks

You do qualify with the firm you train with, you just don’t have to stay with that firm from the point of qualification (the day your training contract ends).

Lots of people move firms upon qualification. It’s very normal.

How easy/difficult it is to move depends on too many variables - what you are looking for, how picky you are, the job market at the time, how strong a candidate you are compared to others in the market etc, where you trained, the seat you completed during your training contract etc.

You’d generally need experience within a practice area/seat during your training contract to be able to qualify into that area, whether that is within the firm you train with or another firm. It’s exceptionally rare for someone to be able to qualify into a team they have no direct experience in.

 

[legalgrinch]

No truth to that. The ease is going to come down to the number of opportunities, the quality of other trainees compared to you, and who else applies to the role. That will always vary from firm to firm and even each qualifying intake.

I would look to LinkedIn to see if solicitors from those firms are moving to the others. Searching by firm name, let’s say CRS, and then filtering by current employer (you could add both HSF and Ashursts) will show who has moved between those firms. Having just done that on LinkedIn there are a small number of associates who were at CRS now at HSF.

Thank you for letting me know! That is very interesting. I’ll do that now

 

[Miss Chocolate]

You do qualify with the firm you train with, you just don’t have to stay with that firm from the point of qualification (the day your training contract ends).

Lots of people move firms upon qualification. It’s very normal.

How easy/difficult it is to move depends on too many variables - what you are looking for, how picky you are, the job market at the time, how strong a candidate you are compared to others in the market etc, where you trained, the seat you completed during your training contract etc.

You’d generally need experience within a practice area/seat during your training contract to be able to qualify into that area, whether that is within the firm you train with or another firm. It’s exceptionally rare for someone to be able to qualify into a team they have no direct experience in.

Thank you - that's honestly very helpful to know! One more question on that, do you know if it's possible to qualify into multiple practice areas? So if I do end up staying at a firm doing, say, litigation work because couldn't qualify in IP (but did either have IP paralegal experience or a seat in that), could I move to a diff firm and look to qualify into IP? I don't know if it makes a difference if the practice areas are very similar and overlap. I may be wrong but I am sure litigation, IP and art are areas that are quite interlinked. If I worked within a litigation team, it's just not the case that all my cases will be IP or Art related. If I worked within Art, some work would be contentious and some transactional, some IP and some not. So far IP appeals to me the most because I think from what I have gathered, it invariably ends up being quite contentious anyway and I do want some experience in litigation.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

Also, I do take your point about trainees changing their minds during their TCs. I can see that happening to me 😂😂

 

[Miss Chocolate]

Also, just want to confirm with you. When you say you definitely need experience to qualify into a practice, can that experience be non-TC? So either paralegal or vacation scheme? VSs tend to be two to three weeks long so I don't know if that's substantial enough. @Jessica Booker Thank you so, so much!! <3

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you - that's honestly very helpful to know! One more question on that, do you know if it's possible to qualify into multiple practice areas? So if I do end up staying at a firm doing, say, litigation work because couldn't qualify in IP (but did either have IP paralegal experience or a seat in that), could I move to a diff firm and look to qualify into IP? I don't know if it makes a difference if the practice areas are very similar and overlap. I may be wrong but I am sure litigation, IP and art are areas that are quite interlinked. If I worked within a litigation team, it's just not the case that all my cases will be IP or Art related. If I worked within Art, some work would be contentious and some transactional, some IP and some not. So far IP appeals to me the most because I think from what I have gathered, it invariably ends up being quite contentious anyway and I do want some experience in litigation.

It will generally only be possible to work in multiple practice areas at one time if you are going to a firm that has a multi-disciplinary approach.

Sometimes people do move practice areas once they have qualified and have a short amount of time in one area and then move to another, but this is pretty rare.

Depending on the firms you are looking at and applying to, you might be even more specialist though - for instance you might be an IP Litigator rather than a generalist IP lawyer or a generalist Litigator.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Also, just want to confirm with you. When you say you definitely need experience to qualify into a practice, can that experience be non-TC? So either paralegal or vacation scheme? VSs tend to be two to three weeks long so I don't know if that's substantial enough. @Jessica Booker Thank you so, so much!! <3

It will really need to be TC experience. A VS wouldn’t be considered long enough - you’d need a seat (ideally six months), and with seats in complementary areas too.

Paralegal work could be possible if you were doing trainee level work, but even then I think they would be wondering why you didn’t do a seat in that area during your TC.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

It will generally only be possible to work in multiple practice areas at one time if you are going to a firm that has a multi-disciplinary approach.

Sometimes people do move practice areas once they have qualified and have a short amount of time in one area and then move to another, but this is pretty rare.

Depending on the firms you are looking at and applying to, you might be even more specialist though - for instance you might be an IP Litigator rather than a generalist IP lawyer or a generalist Litigator.

Perfect - I have just made a spreadsheet to make a note of all these things I need to keep in mind when selecting the firm I train with. I have a feeling if the application cycle doesn't go as well as I hoped, the firms will be doing more selecting than me, but at least now I know what I need to keep in mind if I am in the position to have a choice.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

I think Bristows would be a perfect firm for me. I attended one of their events and everyone seems so intelligent and quirky, like the nerdy lawyers? Even as I write the application, I can feel the doubts creeping in though. Will have to overcome them I guess 🥱 still doing the online test for KPMG so I will get back to that because I want to finish it before work, for which I will have to leave the library at 1. Don't want to be late.

 

[legalgrinch]

I think Bristows would be a perfect firm for me. I attended one of their events and everyone seems so intelligent and quirky, like the nerdy lawyers? Even as I write the application, I can feel the doubts creeping in though. Will have to overcome them I guess 🥱 still doing the online test for KPMG so I will get back to that because I want to finish it before work, for which I will have to leave the library at 1. Don't want to be late.

Intelligence and quirky is a great thing! My friend is a future trainee there, and he is definitely a cool person! Not those weird stuck up or boring types

 

[Miss Chocolate]

Completed the KPMG 'Delivering Outcomes' online test last night. On the portal it says that it's the last stage before the offer (an insight programme) but I swear the assessment center should come next? If I had known it was the last stage, would have put more thought into the written exercise. Oh well. I mean the scheme dates (spring) and HSF vac scheme do clash but I decided to apply to both to cover my basis in case HSF doesn't work out this year either. On Wednesday I am going to London for an assessment-center style group exercise for that voluntary overseas programme during the summer. I am not going to prepare because it should be fine honestly, maybe I will reach out to someone who did it last year and ask how it went or what it involves but I haven't spoken to her in ages and 💀 I guess it wouldn't hurt though. Actually, let me drop her a text now. I also just want to ask her what she thought of it. I did it last summer and LOVED it but going back as a leader is kind of different and it's basically an unpaid job (they only contribute towards the flights costs). Also, it's a huge commitment because I am basically either applying for TCs or spring schemes and limiting my options. :/ I am realising that maybe I should stay behind during the summer but the idea of being stuck at home after exams sounds kind of meh and I want something 'escapismy' to look forward to 😂😂that will get me through the exam period, I think.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

Also I am procrastinating when I should be working on my dissertation memo.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

I have had the appetite of a large horse lately. Joys of being a girl.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

Literally came back from the library to grab myself food from Sainsbury's and now I want to take a fat nap. Ugh. Must resist. I need to get at least 6 hours of work done today.

 

[prospectiveswitcher]

No truth to that. The ease is going to come down to the number of opportunities, the quality of other trainees compared to you, and who else applies to the role. That will always vary from firm to firm and even each qualifying intake.

I would look to LinkedIn to see if solicitors from those firms are moving to the others. Searching by firm name, let’s say CRS, and then filtering by current employer (you could add both HSF and Ashursts) will show who has moved between those firms. Having just done that on LinkedIn there are a small number of associates who were at CRS now at HSF.

@lawwarrior
Going to slightly disagree/add a caveat to what Jessica has said here - Jessica is completely right in that ultimately it comes down to the number of opportunities, however, typically at large commercial firms transactional seats will always have more opportunities (as generally higher volume of work / higher demand for associates in these departments). Obviously this may not always be the case depending on where we are in the economic cycle, but I had been told by a few associates 'there is always a transactional seat for everyone'. This may not be corporate, could be banking, etc., but if you are looking at typical large commercial firms they will generally have more transactional opportunities than ones in litigation. Agree with Jessica though - depends on the firm and what their departments are strong in, but this is just 'typically'.

 

[legalgrinch]

@lawwarrior
Going to slightly disagree/add a caveat to what Jessica has said here - Jessica is completely right in that ultimately it comes down to the number of opportunities, however, typically at large commercial firms transactional seats will always have more opportunities (as generally higher volume of work / higher demand for associates in these departments). Obviously this may not always be the case depending on where we are in the economic cycle, but I had been told by a few associates 'there is always a transactional seat for everyone'. This may not be corporate, could be banking, etc., but if you are looking at typical large commercial firms they will generally have more transactional opportunities than ones in litigation. Agree with Jessica though - depends on the firm and what their departments are strong in, but this is just 'typically'.

Thank you very much for that. I am assuming “real estate” will come under transactional, as I know it is..

Although, I’m also now interested in Regulatory too, so it is very reassuring to hear your thoughts! 😊

 

[prospectiveswitcher]

Thank you very much for that. I am assuming “real estate” will come under transactional, as I know it is..

Although, I’m also now interested in Regulatory too, so it is very reassuring to hear your thoughts! 😊

From my experiences, Real Estate is generally not a highly sought after seat for both trainees and soon-to-be NQs (not sure why, probably not seen as 'cool' like M&A) so you probably have a good shot of landing there if its what you want + you do a seat there and are good at it. Nothing ever guaranteed in these situs though!

 

[Miss Chocolate]

Got back from my London assessment centre style interview for the voluntary summer role. Apparently they have 25 places and 200 applicants so feeling rather unsure. Worth maybe going back to the drawing board and start applying for summer vac schemes :/ all I wanted was to escape the UK and have a fun summer overseas. Sigh. A girl truly cannot enjoy life's simple pleasures. I want to WEEP.

OMG you guys, so PwC sent me a post-video interview rejection and I was going to share it later. Just checked my junk email and was about to delete the mails when I saw an email asking me to book an AC (virtual). What the hell. They sent me two emails today. One I checked this morning, sent to me at 4am, rejecting me. The other I received at 5pm asking me to schedule my AC? It's not a scam email so they made a mistake. I am such a chicken I don't want to phone them up in case the former email is the correct outcome.

Edit: I am clearly losing my mind. I got rejected from KPMG insight programme, not PwC graduate programme LOOOOL Okay, at least PwC didn't see my horrible video interview and went "NOT HER"

 

[Miss Chocolate]

Yikes, got an email. Don't want to open.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

No because surely if it was an invitation it would have started with "Congratulations - come to the AC bestie". It started with "Thank you for applying...". Not opening this email ugh I just know it's going to ruin my day.