Community Guidelines and navigating TCLA - your input requested

[Jessica Booker]

Community guidelines:

Earlier in the summer the conversation around putting together some community guidelines for TCLA came up. Having spoken to Jaysen, I will be working on pulling something together in time for the start of the next academic year.

We are keen to ensure the community guidelines are built with your (the Community!) input. Given this, I'd be keen to hear from anyone who has any ideas on what the guidelines should contain.

In particular, I'd like to understand more about how you find communicating with one another through the forum and through private messages. I am pretty relaxed about this as ultimately it is my job to answer people's questions, but I understand that the dynamic between members might be very different, so I'd like to hear the positive and negative experiences from forum users to try and work out the best guidelines around this particular topic.

We are also aware that different people have different views on how much information should be shared in regards to people's experiences in interviews/assessment centres. We are keen to ensure we pitch this right in the guidelines, without limiting the great amount of information that is shared within this community, but at the same time keeping the integrity of firm's recruitment processes. Your views on this would also be appreciated.

Any further ideas of what the Community Guidelines should consist of would be appreciated too!

Any comments/opinions/views in this thread would be greatly appreciated. If you would prefer to PM me, then happy for you to do this too. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Navigating TCLA

I will also be creating an intro guide to navigating the TCLA forums. We understand that as the forum has grown there is more content, and that sometimes things can be a little tricky to navigate as often points cross over different forums and threads.

Although I have learnt my own tricks for navigating the forums with time and experience, I'd be keen to hear if anyone else has any thoughts on how best to approach this, especially thinking about anyone who might be joining the forum for the first time and trying to get their head around what is where.

 

[tractor12]

Think this is a great idea. In regards to navigating the forum, I think on your 'Ask a Graduate Recruiter' thread, it would be great to have a page/post that directs you to certain questions that get asked a lot. That would mean you won't have to answer the same question again and would be easier to locate useful information quickly. I actually wanted to do that myself but haven't had the time to do so yet. Happy to make some time later in August if you think this would be a good idea.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Think this is a great idea. In regards to navigating the forum, I think on your 'Ask a Graduate Recruiter' thread, it would be great to have a page/post that directs you to certain questions that get asked a lot. That would mean you won't have to answer the same question again and would be easier to locate useful information quickly. I actually wanted to do that myself but haven't had the time to do so yet. Happy to make some time later in August if you think this would be a good idea.

Great minds think alike . I am thinking of creating a "bookmark" thread - almost like an alphabetical list of subjects/questions that links to posts already created that covers the topic well.

 

[tractor12]

Great minds think alike . I am thinking of creating a "bookmark" thread - almost like an alphabetical list of subjects/questions that links to posts already created that covers the topic well.

Great idea. Let me know if I can help at all.

 

[S87]

Great minds think alike . I am thinking of creating a "bookmark" thread - almost like an alphabetical list of subjects/questions that links to posts already created that covers the topic well.

I think this is a great idea. Many people post on the Hear back thread so if we manage to create specific threads would be better.
The ask graduate thread is also great.
My personal idea is to create threads like: How to answer "have you been following any recent new stories that have attracted your attention and which my interest this firm? What's your extra curricular activities, achievements and so on? Why did you decide to become a commercial lawyer? Why solicitor?

 

[Jessica Booker]

I think this is a great idea. Many people post on the Hear back thread so if we manage to create specific threads would be better.
The ask graduate thread is also great.
My personal idea is to create threads like: How to answer "have you been following any recent new stories that have attracted your attention and which my interest this firm? What's your extra curricular activities, achievements and so on? Why did you decide to become a commercial lawyer? Why solicitor?

We are going to be doing some guides on these type of topics as they aren't really things that are discussed as such, we just get a lot of specific questions about "how to" do one thing or other.

 

[EA]

Community guidelines:

Earlier in the summer the conversation around putting together some community guidelines for TCLA came up. Having spoken to Jaysen, I will be working on pulling something together in time for the start of the next academic year.

We are keen to ensure the community guidelines are built with your (the Community!) input. Given this, I'd be keen to hear from anyone who has any ideas on what the guidelines should contain.

In particular, I'd like to understand more about how you find communicating with one another through the forum and through private messages. I am pretty relaxed about this as ultimately it is my job to answer people's questions, but I understand that the dynamic between members might be very different, so I'd like to hear the positive and negative experiences from forum users to try and work out the best guidelines around this particular topic.

We are also aware that different people have different views on how much information should be shared in regards to people's experiences in interviews/assessment centres. We are keen to ensure we pitch this right in the guidelines, without limiting the great amount of information that is shared within this community, but at the same time keeping the integrity of firm's recruitment processes. Your views on this would also be appreciated.

Any further ideas of what the Community Guidelines should consist of would be appreciated too!

Any comments/opinions/views in this thread would be greatly appreciated. If you would prefer to PM me, then happy for you to do this too. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Personally I find the communication pattern very interactive and the contents very enriching. I have had communication through PM on about two occasions and it was also very good.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Personally I find the communication pattern very interactive and the contents very enriching. I have had communication through PM on about two occasions and it was also very good.

That’s what we like to hear

 

[CarinaH]

I definitely am one of the people that prefer to share general feedback regarding VI and ACs rather than giving the specifics. I think if someone wants to share the specific questions, this can be done privately. We were also told that things shared at the AC are confidential and I’d presume it might be similar for other firms at least for anyone getting to that stage. I also think it’s part of the prep process to be prepared for every eventuality, rather than just relying on other people’s insight. That’s me anyway!

 

[Jessica Booker]

I definitely am one of the people that prefer to share general feedback regarding VI and ACs rather than giving the specifics. I think if someone wants to share the specific questions, this can be done privately. We were also told that things shared at the AC are confidential and I’d presume it might be similar for other firms at least for anyone getting to that stage. I also think it’s part of the prep process to be prepared for every eventuality, rather than just relying on other people’s insight. That’s me anyway!

Thanks for your input - that was my thinking too.

Ultimately we can’t stop people sharing things privately and to be frank this happens all the time with people who are friends/family anyway.

However, we want to ensure the community is one the benefits collectively and that we share as much information at the same time. One idea of the forum is to make this profession more accessible and so we need to ensure there is a balance (hence the community rules!).

We also don’t want to drive people to relying on PMs and potentially harassing others for information. We know of at least one incident where someone tracked someone off the forums who secured a TC down on LinkedIn and sent a string of messages that got more aggressive when the person didn’t respond/or provide the information the individual expected. We want to stop that happening too.

We do have to keep in mind the integrity of firm’s recruitment processes too. We don’t want firms contacting us saying we have undermined their process (I had to do this with TSR back in the day when someone posted a copy of one of the exercises we used).

So it is about finding the right balance for everyone and pitching it right - which is why we want as many views as possible on this subject.

Thank you for taking the time to give me yours

 

[Adam Gilchrist]

I think there's some middle ground to be had when it comes to interview experiences. If we didn't allow any specific experiences at all, that would put some people at a huge disadvantage - yes, of course you should be generally prepared for any interview, but nevertheless, if someone else has friends or family who had an interview at that firm, they will start at a comparative advantage.

I feel that giving a layout of the interview process is useful. For many people who have never done a VS interview before, a lot of the assessment center's components may be completely alien. You may already have done proper interviews beforehand (Oxbridge, some jobs), but it's highly unlikely you'll have done a case study, or an eTray exercise, or a client pitch before, so knowing in advance the sorts of things you need to prepare for that aren't the traditional interview format will be very useful, since doing them for the first ever time at an assessment centre is not ideal.

Now, having said that, a broad layout is I feel sufficient, and occasionally some of the interview experience posts on this forum go far beyond that, into way too much detail. I think giving specific facts about exactly what you had to do for an exercise (e.g. a case study) and what the subject matter was, is going too far. It's one thing to say "There was a case study element, so I'd advise doing TCLA's practice ones, and also remember that planning and time management are both of the essence", but it's another thing to say "In the case study XYZ is the background info and you need to do ABC, and don't forget about the trick barchart on page 9 of your booklet".

The former is fine, the latter definitely is not so. Since Jaysen collates & publishes the interview experiences himself, I guess it means rather more editing of the experiences, which is rather time-consuming for him, I do acknowledge.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I think there's some middle ground to be had when it comes to interview experiences. If we didn't allow any specific experiences at all, that would put some people at a huge disadvantage - yes, of course you should be generally prepared for any interview, but nevertheless, if someone else has friends or family who had an interview at that firm, they will start at a comparative advantage.

I feel that giving a layout of the interview process is useful. For many people who have never done a VS interview before, a lot of the assessment center's components may be completely alien. You may already have done proper interviews beforehand (Oxbridge, some jobs), but it's highly unlikely you'll have done a case study, or an eTray exercise, or a client pitch before, so knowing in advance the sorts of things you need to prepare for that aren't the traditional interview format will be very useful, since doing them for the first ever time at an assessment centre is not ideal.

Now, having said that, a broad layout is I feel sufficient, and occasionally some of the interview experience posts on this forum go far beyond that, into way too much detail. I think giving specific facts about exactly what you had to do for an exercise (e.g. a case study) and what the subject matter was, is going too far. It's one thing to say "There was a case study element, so I'd advise doing TCLA's practice ones, and also remember that planning and time management are both of the essence", but it's another thing to say "In the case study XYZ is the background info and you need to do ABC, and don't forget about the trick barchart on page 9 of your booklet".

The former is fine, the latter definitely is not so. Since Jaysen collates & publishes the interview experiences himself, I guess it means rather more editing of the experiences, which is rather time-consuming for him, I do acknowledge.

This is really useful - thank you for taking your time to put your thoughts together. We pretty much have similar thoughts.

 

[tractor12]

I think there's some middle ground to be had when it comes to interview experiences. If we didn't allow any specific experiences at all, that would put some people at a huge disadvantage - yes, of course you should be generally prepared for any interview, but nevertheless, if someone else has friends or family who had an interview at that firm, they will start at a comparative advantage.

I feel that giving a layout of the interview process is useful. For many people who have never done a VS interview before, a lot of the assessment center's components may be completely alien. You may already have done proper interviews beforehand (Oxbridge, some jobs), but it's highly unlikely you'll have done a case study, or an eTray exercise, or a client pitch before, so knowing in advance the sorts of things you need to prepare for that aren't the traditional interview format will be very useful, since doing them for the first ever time at an assessment centre is not ideal.

Now, having said that, a broad layout is I feel sufficient, and occasionally some of the interview experience posts on this forum go far beyond that, into way too much detail. I think giving specific facts about exactly what you had to do for an exercise (e.g. a case study) and what the subject matter was, is going too far. It's one thing to say "There was a case study element, so I'd advise doing TCLA's practice ones, and also remember that planning and time management are both of the essence", but it's another thing to say "In the case study XYZ is the background info and you need to do ABC, and don't forget about the trick barchart on page 9 of your booklet".

The former is fine, the latter definitely is not so. Since Jaysen collates & publishes the interview experiences himself, I guess it means rather more editing of the experiences, which is rather time-consuming for him, I do acknowledge.

Those who have family and friends who might provide more detailed information will then still have an advantage over people who read the more general info provided here.

I agree it’s difficult to find a balance and very specific information such as detailed case facts should be stayed away from. But I think ultimately it should be up to the person if they want to provide that sort of information. They are the ones who might be taking a risk by telling another person.

In an ideal world, it’s not really fair that anyone gets this information before an AC. But as Jess said, there will be other ways of getting that info if it’s not provided here. I remember someone once posted that they went to an AC and it quickly emerged that they were the only one who wasn’t aware of what the case study would be about.

Firms are fully aware that this goes on, and if they were really concerned about it there are various ways they can mitigate it from happening. For example, they can have a few different case studies to give to candidates or ask a different set of questions for video interviews (which some firms do)

It’s also interesting to note that from my own experiences at ACs, I’ve never actually been told or warned not to tell others information regarding their application process. Of course it should go without saying but I never got the impression that they were particularly concerned about this or did much to stop it from happening (of course this will differ from firm to firm).

I definitely understand all the reasons why it shouldn’t happen and as I said ideally it shouldn’t happen at all. But I think it is better to have this high profile platform that provides equal information for everyone.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Those who have family and friends who might provide more detailed information will then still have an advantage over people who read the more general info provided here.

I agree it’s difficult to find a balance and very specific information such as detailed case facts should be stayed away from. But I think ultimately it should be up to the person if they want to provide that sort of information. They are the ones who might be taking a risk by telling another person.

In an ideal world, it’s not really fair that anyone gets this information before an AC. But as Jess said, there will be other ways of getting that info if it’s not provided here. I remember someone once posted that they went to an AC and it quickly emerged that they were the only one who wasn’t aware of what the case study would be about.

Firms are fully aware that this goes on, and if they were really concerned about it there are various ways they can mitigate it from happening. For example, they can have a few different case studies to give to candidates or ask a different set of questions for video interviews (which some firms do)

It’s also interesting to note that from my own experiences at ACs, I’ve never actually been told or warned not to tell others information regarding their application process. Of course it should go without saying but I never got the impression that they were particularly concerned about this or did much to stop it from happening (of course this will differ from firm to firm).

I definitely understand all the reasons why it shouldn’t happen and as I said ideally it shouldn’t happen at all. But I think it is better to have this high profile platform that provides equal information for everyone.

Thanks for taking the time to write this - it’s really useful and gives me a couple of things to think about when it comes to the wording of the community guidelines.

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Daniel Boden and @Alice G - would love your thoughts on this if possible

 

[Daniel Boden]

@Daniel Boden and @Alice G - would love your thoughts on this if possible

Hi Jess,

Yeah I would be inclined to agree with @Adam Gilchrist tbh.

I think if we initially permit the explanation of the structure of various ACs and what the types of different assessments usually involve then that would be a good starting point.

Going all the way to permitting the telling of exactly what a case study is, or exactly how to write a memo etc. would be too much in my opinion, at least initially and would be quite hard to walk back from.

If we do the former, we can always permit more detailed explanations later on if there is enough of a user appetite for it. Does that make sense?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jess,

Yeah I would be inclined to agree with @Adam Gilchrist tbh.

I think if we initially permit the explanation of the structure of various ACs and what the types of different assessments usually involve then that would be a good starting point.

Going all the way to permitting the telling of exactly what a case study is, or exactly how to write a memo etc. would be too much in my opinion, at least initially and would be quite hard to walk back from.

If we do the former, we can always permit more detailed explanations later on if there is enough of a user appetite for it. Does that make sense?

Thank you - this is really useful. As one of our most active members and I suspect someone who has probably been PM’d a lot with specific questions it’s really useful to have to input.

 

[Daniel Boden]

Thank you - this is really useful. As one of our most active members and I suspect someone who has probably been PM’d a lot with specific questions it’s really useful to have to input.

My pleasure! And yes, you're not wrong, my PMs have been very busy over the last year or so haha

 

[Adam Gilchrist]

The other issue that occurs to me is the direction in which Jaysen intends to take TCLA - if he wants future collaboration with firms, like the previous Sherman & Sterling grad rec Q&A.

I wonder if that would be rather harder to achieve if firms disliked TCLA due to its posting case studies/interview experiences in far too much detail. Firms clearly aren't happy when that happens, as per Jessica Booker's earlier mention of TSR in this thread.