Ask Shearman & Sterling Anything!

[Paul - Shearman & Sterling]

Hi Paul and Alexandra

I have been interested in applying to Shearman & Sterling for a while now but I have always been put off because I know that one of the key things you look for when reviewing an application is 60% or above in contract law. My grade is a little shy of this.

I graduated in 2012 with a 2:1 and I have a lot of non-legal work experience, so I am classed as a career changer now. Do you look at applications from career changers any differently? Is it worth me applying or will my application likely be unsuccessful due to not meeting your fair and reasonable grade requirements?

Thanks
Camilla

Hi Camilla,

We don't actually have a cut off mark for contract law. It's an important module and one we look at closely, but we look at applications forms holistically. The rest of your application could well make a difference.

Don't be put off applying because of this.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Fil]

Hey Paul,

Its great to have you guys on the forum! Your online support for aspiring solicitors is really amazing.

I would like to know whether you acknowledge that some universities might mark harsher than others on average (and consider this difference when recruiting).

Best,

Fil

 

[Paul - Shearman & Sterling]

Hi Paul,
Interestingly I could not use that calculator as I am an international student and our education system is quite different from UK system. I had achieved the highest possible grades across all subjects at secondary school and high school. What should I do in these circumstances?

No problem Soliha, I have just the video for you:

https://ukgraduates.shearman.com/20...ng-contract-application-whiteboard-wednesday/

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Paul - Shearman & Sterling]

Hi Paul and Alexandra,

I’m currently a first-year studying Anthropology at the University of Durham. I have a huge passion for a future law career but my worry is that firms wouldn’t consider me as they might not view an anthropology degree as something which has enough transferable skills in comparison to other non - law degrees such as business, history or English. What is you view of this? Is it worth considering changing courses for better recruitment prospects?

Honestly - it really doesn't matter what degree you study. Absolutely no need to change courses.

You might find that studying Anthropology makes your applications stand out

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Paul - Shearman & Sterling]

Hey Paul,

Its great to have you guys on the forum! Your online support for aspiring solicitors is really amazing.

I would like to know whether you acknowledge that some universities mark harsher than others on average (and consider this difference when recruiting).

Best,

Fil

Hi - we evaluate all university grades equally.

Out of interest - which universities do you think mark harsher? How is this being determined? Just interested to know.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Fil]

Hi - we evaluate all university grades equally.

Out of interest - which universities do you think mark harsher? How is this being determined? Just interested to know.

Thanks,

Paul

Hi,

I'm not too sure about other universities, but I know some law firm partners/graduate recruiters (including for instance a partner from Slaughter & May) acknowledge that the University of Nottingham marks harsher in comparison to other universities (I think with regards to 1st year grades).

This could be because the School of Law at the university released a letter stating this and 'urging firms to give special consideration' a few years back. Also maybe because of the statistics showing students graduating with a 1st or 2:2 are significantly lower (and higher respectively) compared to its 'competitor' Russel Group universities.

Best,

Fil

 

[Paul - Shearman & Sterling]

Hi Paul,

I am a third year law student at a non-Russell group university, I am on track to get a first. I have seen a lot of Shearman & Sterling trainees on LinkedIn are from Russell Group or Oxbridge universities. Will I be disadvantaged if I apply to yourselves? As I have heard US firms tend to recruit individuals from the Oxbridge/Russell Group universities.

Thanks,
Zhang

Hi Zhang,

Thanks for the question. This comes up a lot. Here's my take on it. Law firms don't make their decisions based on what university people attended. They do look at academics though e.g. A-Levels, and there is a correlation between academics and the universities people attend.

I always advise candidates who are not at the Russell Group to have the confidence to apply. Law firms simply receive fewer applications from people at non-Russell group universities. It doesn't mean they don't review the applications in the same way.

I recorded a video on this topic last year. Here it is:

https://shearman.campaignworks.biz/2018/09/24/does-it-matter-what-university-you-go-to/

I hope that helps.

Paul

 

[Daniele]

Dear Paul and Alexandra,

I hope you're well,

I found the recent events organised by Shearman very useful, especially to get to know US law firms better. At "The Rise of US Law Firms in London" with Legal Cheek we had the chance of meeting a former member of a Magic Circle firm, Jonathan Swil. He touched upon the fact that, previously, he had a more managerial role and a limited involvement in deals. This was due to the fact that larger teams at Magic Circle firms meant that work was distributed differently. Whereas at Shearman, he has now the chance of being more involved in the actual workload as teams are smaller.

Could you please tell us a bit more about this aspect, in particular on the advantages of working in smaller teams in comparison to Magic Circle firms?

Thank you very much,

Daniele

 

[Paul - Shearman & Sterling]

Hi Paul and Alexandra, thank you so much for answering our questions!

I was wondering with regards to the work experience section in law firm applications, would you recommend listing law firm events/open days/exclusive dinners with the firms?

I often see people listing them on the work experience section of LinkedIn, so I have always assumed that it would be acceptable to include them in firm applications as well.

Would love to hear your input on this!

Hi,

Yes, I see this quite often in application forms. Experiences such as open days can be put in the work experience section.

Things that are more extra-curricular, such as university society involvement, would be best placed in the extra-curricular question.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Paul - Shearman & Sterling]

Dear Paul and Alexandra,

I hope you're well,

I found the recent events organised by Shearman very useful, especially to get to know US law firms better. At "The Rise of US Law Firms in London" with Legal Cheek we had the chance of meeting a former member of a Magic Circle firm, Jonathan Swil. He touched upon the fact that, previously, he had a more managerial role and a limited involvement in deals. This was due to the fact that larger teams at Magic Circle firms meant that work was distributed differently. Whereas at Shearman, he has now the chance of being more involved in the actual workload as teams are smaller.

Could you please tell us a bit more about this aspect, in particular on the advantages of working in smaller teams in comparison to Magic Circle firms?

Thank you very much,

Daniele

Hi Daniele,

Good question. In large law firms, you can find that people have a narrower specialism. e.g. as a tax lawyer you might solely specialise in tax law relating to pensions. This is largely due to the size of the law firm and how the firm decides to structure its teams.

At smaller law firms, you find that lawyers tend to have a more general practice. They still specialise, but not as narrowly.

It is also the case that at some firms, as you get more senior, you take on more managerial work and might not do as much legal work.

For people who don't want to specialise too much, and still enjoy doing day-to-day legal work - moving to a US firm is a good option.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[ABC2019]

Hi,

It sounds like you already know a lot about the legal industry and how to enter the profession - so you might find that Re-start covers information that you already know...

Thanks,

Paul

Thanks for your reply on this Paul – with your response in mind I will proceed with my Vac Scheme application.

Many thanks for all your other useful insights on this thread.

Alia

 

[D]

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your posts on this thread. I attended an open day at the firm and recall the emphasis which was placed on your first-year results. My results may be considered comparatively low against other universities, however, I placed within the top 15% of candidates in my year [I attend an institution that is known for its tough marking]. I am considering self-selecting out of my application to the firm, despite the positive overall impression I received.

Would my score be fatal to my application, in spite of the performance I achieved within my cohort?

 

[Paul - Shearman & Sterling]

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your posts on this thread. I attended an open day at the firm and recall the emphasis which was placed on your first-year results. My results may be considered comparatively low against other universities, however, I placed within the top 15% of candidates in my year [I attend an institution that is known for its tough marking]. I am considering self-selecting out of my application to the firm, despite the positive overall impression I received.

Would my score be fatal to my application, in spite of the performance I achieved within my cohort?

Hello,

Great question! But, I think I should start by clarifying the position re first-year module grades. We don't place a particular emphasis on first-year marks, it's just that we evaluate all modules across all years broadly the same. I would say that 'Contract Law' is the module we pay the most attention too, regardless of what year someone has studied it.

We do also understand that people might take a bit of time to adjust to university study and may have a few lower module marks in the first year.

In terms of your position - I think you might be in danger of ruling yourself out unnecessarily! If you were in the top 15% of your year group, then I imagine your grades will be good.

Also, don't forget, you have successfully applied for our Open Day....

I hope this helps.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Daniele]

Hi Daniele,

Good question. In large law firms, you can find that people have a narrower specialism. e.g. as a tax lawyer you might solely specialise in tax law relating to pensions. This is largely due to the size of the law firm and how the firm decides to structure its teams.

At smaller law firms, you find that lawyers tend to have a more general practice. They still specialise, but not as narrowly.

It is also the case that at some firms, as you get more senior, you take on more managerial work and might not do as much legal work.

For people who don't want to specialise too much, and still enjoy doing day-to-day legal work - moving to a US firm is a good option.

Thanks,

Paul

Dear Paul,

Thank you very much for your response,

It is very interesting - I have attended a few events organized by Magic Circle firms, and I realized that they tend not to compare with US firms, or explain the differences a bit more in depth, in the way you did in specific events together with James. At least in my experience, they did so only when they were asked to explain these differences, but still, that was not crystal clear. They mentioned that there is "a competitive battleground taking place in London among US and British firms", highlighting "the differences in type and variety of deals globally". But these again were quite generic responses.

I haven't got much from their side on the practical differences in the day-to-day work. For example, in the case of Shearman, Korey Fevzi mentioned the freedom to network and generate work, and again Jonathan Swil mentioned the possibility of participating with ideas about the business development and improvement of the firm.

I might be wrong, but it sounded to me that they have a more rigid structure in comparison to US firms. Do you have any thoughts in this regard?

Thanks again,

Daniele

 

[Paul - Shearman & Sterling]

Dear Paul,

Thank you very much for your response,

It is very interesting - I have attended a few events organized by Magic Circle firms, and I realized that they tend not to compare with US firms, or explain the differences a bit more in depth, in the way you did in specific events together with James. At least in my experience, they did so only when they were asked to explain these differences, but still, that was not crystal clear. They mentioned that there is "a competitive battleground taking place in London among US and British firms", highlighting "the differences in type and variety of deals globally". But these again were quite generic responses.

I haven't got much from their side on the practical differences in the day-to-day work. For example, in the case of Shearman, Korey Fevzi mentioned the freedom to network and generate work, and again Jonathan Swil mentioned the possibility of participating with ideas about the business development and improvement of the firm.

I might be wrong, but it sounded to me that they have a more rigid structure in comparison to US firms. Do you have any thoughts in this regard?

Thanks again,

Daniele

Hi Daniele,

Certainly in London, you'll find that MC firms will have more management structure than US firms - but that's often due to the size of the firms. As US law firms tend to be smaller than MC law firms, the way the firms are managed will differ.

I think it's fair to say that in smaller firms you'll have greater exposure to a variety of work and projects.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Paul - Shearman & Sterling]

Hi all,

I sometimes find that people struggle to understand how law firms compete against each other and how smaller firms are successful in a market that seems dominated by large firms.

I've tried to explain this here:

https://ukgraduates.shearman.com/2019/11/27/how-do-smaller-firms-compete-against-larger-firms/

 

[NourJ]

Hi Paul,

Thank you so much for your posts on this thread and for your Whiteboard Wednesday videos. They have been of immense help!

I have a question regarding the third application question:

Please include activities, interests and positions of responsibility, whether at school, university or otherwise.

Do you suggest using the STAR technique and talking about three different "activities"? Or would it be better to give an overview of all our extracurricular activities without going into details about what we did?

I personally held a position of responsibility in four different societies at university, played two different sports growing up and took part in two different projects at university. Should I mention all of them in this section?

Thank you so much in advance for your kind help.
Nour

 

[Paul - Shearman & Sterling]

Hi Paul,

Thank you so much for your posts on this thread and for your Whiteboard Wednesday videos. They have been of immense help!

I have a question regarding the third application question:

Please include activities, interests and positions of responsibility, whether at school, university or otherwise.

Do you suggest using the STAR technique and talking about three different "activities"? Or would it be better to give an overview of all our extracurricular activities without going into details about what we did?

I personally held a position of responsibility in four different societies at university, played two different sports growing up and took part in two different projects at university. Should I mention all of them in this section?

Thank you so much in advance for your kind help.
Nour

Hi Nour,

Great question! I'm quite relaxed as to how you answer that third question - I'm really just looking to see what you are interested in and what you enjoy doing. I would say it's best to talk about 2 or 3 things rather than bullet point an extensive list though.

I hope that helps.

Paul

p.s. I'm glad you enjoy the Whiteboard Wednesday videos

 

[Daniele]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for sharing all this information, I've learned so much over the past months!

I have just a question regarding work experience, which you considered as a limitation rather than a mistake in an application. I have seen several successful applicants who had work experience in multiple law firms or in-house departments, mostly as paralegals, before obtaining a training contract. Is this type of job an experience you would particularly recommend to future applicants in preparation for a training contract?

Thank you very much,

Daniele

 

[NourJ]

Hi Nour,

Great question! I'm quite relaxed as to how you answer that third question - I'm really just looking to see what you are interested in and what you enjoy doing. I would say it's best to talk about 2 or 3 things rather than bullet point an extensive list though.

I hope that helps.

Paul

p.s. I'm glad you enjoy the Whiteboard Wednesday videos

Hi Paul,

Thank you very much for your clarification.

I noticed on the Shearman & Sterling Legal Cheek profile that none of the current trainees have attended international universities.

Does the fact that I am not pursuing an undergraduate degree in the UK put me at a disadvantage? I am a final-year Sciences Po Paris student currently on exchange at the LSE for this academic year.

Thank you again for all your insights!

All the best,
Nour