Ask Jaysen (TCLA's Founder) Anything!

[Jaysen]

Hi All,

I've carved out time this week to answer any questions you may have in this thread!

Some background about me:

It feels like I went through the process a long time ago now, but back when I did, I secured interviews with 13 law firms, completed four vacation schemes and converted three into training contract offers. Before starting up TCLA, I was a trainee for a short time at the US law firm Weil Gotshal & Manges.

Since starting up TCLA in February 2018, I've provided detailed feedback on over 1,000 vacation scheme and training contract applications, carried out hundreds of mock interviews and seen plenty of candidates go from battling with rejection to securing training contract offers. Probably my main takeaway from this is how much of the application process is a 'skill', which means it's something you can improve at over time with the right practice.

What to ask me:

I'm probably most able to share my thoughts on:

• Application questions
• Improving performance in video interviews, interviews and vacation schemes
• Developing commercial awareness
• Dealing with rejection
• Becoming a 'stand out' candidate
• Improving productivity
• Making the most of LinkedIn

That said, feel free to ask anything and I'll let you know if I'm not best placed to answer your question/guide you otherwise. If it's a graduate recruitment question, I'll likely guide you towards Jess's AMA thread. Likewise, it has been a while since I've been through the process, so I may also direct you to Alice's AMA thread.

Finally, it's worth noting that I've never been a recruiter, so my advice is always based on what I imagine recruiters will care about, rather than having any insider insight on the process. All of this to say, please don't take my advice as gospel.

Looking forward to your questions!

 

[TChopeful2021]

Hi Jaysen,

Thanks for making the thread. This is not really an application question but I’m quite curious about what incentivised you to leave Weil and start this website. How much did your experience at the firm contribute to the decision and in your opinion, what factors should an applicant take into consideration before committing to training at a US firm? Sorry if this is too personal and I completely understand if you don’t feel comfortable answering.

 

[iamJW]

Hi Jaysen,

Before I asked my question(s), I just wanted to say a huge personal thank you for all the help and support you have given me. It has certainly boosted my confidence in myself for this process and given me the belief that I can eventually get that dream TC.

Given your vast experience, my question is based on being and presenting oneself as a 'stand out candidate'. As someone who struggles with selling themselves whether in an application or an interview, do you have any tips/advice as to detailing experiences and achievements to really be a memorable candidate? I am not sure if this question is too specific, but I feel a lot of candidates struggle with being generic and I want to see how to go really beyond that considering the process is so competitive.

If I may ask a second question, I just wanted to ask what is the best way to make the most out of LinkedIn and get some key insights to firms to strengthen applications etc? Is it simply just putting yourself out there and seeing what sticks?

Thanks.

 

[Jaysen]

Hi Jaysen,

Thanks for making the thread. This is not really an application question but I’m quite curious about what incentivised you to leave Weil and start this website. How much did your experience at the firm contribute to the decision and in your opinion, what factors should an applicant take into consideration before committing to training at a US firm? Sorry if this is too personal and I completely understand if you don’t feel comfortable answering.

No problem at all!

When people hear that I left Weil, they often think it's because I disliked the firm. I actually thought it was a great firm (and still do), and if I had to do it again, I would!

It was definitely an intense experience though. When I decided I wanted to go down the commercial law path, I had my own doubts, but I decided to ignore those at the time and go all in. Working the very long hours I did pretty much gave me a crash course in working out whether this was the right career path for me, and I decided it wasn't.

The sensible thing would have been to finish my training contract, but once I get an idea in my head, I find it hard to carry on doing what I'm doing! I'd always wanted to run a business, so when I left Weil I decided to go all in and try that.

I only spent time at Weil, so it's hard for me to comment on experiences at other firms. My experience was also influenced by the department I was in, and so my hours would have been much better at other departments. That said, I would say there was a steep learning curve. My training was very much on-the-go: half the time I had little idea what I was doing and I just had to work it out. This can be very challenging, although you do learn quickly. Because the intake is small, you are also very visible in the office, so there's no shying away as a trainee. You're there because you're genuinely needed to pitch in (even as a first-seat trainee).

It's also worth noting that the London office of some US firms often specialise in particular areas or have fewer practice areas for you to rotate across. In my case, this was private equity. This means you should make sure you genuinely like this type of work because it's what you'll be involved in day to day.

As a general point, I do think it's really important you get a sense of whether you will genuinely like the firm you're applying to. This is very tough; because of the competition, candidates can sometimes feel 'lucky' to get any training contract, which can mean they end up accepting a TC that they're not fully happy with. If you do find you receive a TC early in the process and aren't completely sure of the firm, I do think it's worth taking the time to think before accepting.

 

[themagician]

Hi Jaysen,

Thank you a lot for the opportunity to ask questions in this thread. Mine is about direct TC applications to US firms.

I think it’s quite clear that the vast majority of them recruit predominantly from their vac schemes. I’ve been told that direct TC applications to US firms are more or less a waste of time, and they’re only there as an after-thought because one or two spots couldn’t be filled from the vac scheme bunch. Chances of success are slim to none.

I’m contemplating doing a couple direct TC applications now, with specifically Cleary, Weil, Latham and Sidley in mind, and I’m wondering if there is any true in this?

I’ve done one vac scheme as it is, and have one more in the summer, both with MC circle firms. Do you think my choice of vac scheme firms will put me at a disadvantage?

 

[Angiee]

Hi Jaysen,

Thank you for making this thread and offering your help! I have an AC with Reed Smith coming up and one of the questions I am planning for is 'what skills do you have that will add to the firm's growth'. I was thinking about the usual skills such as 'communication, analysis and teamwork etc' but the last part of specifying the firm's growth makes it seem like they want more. I would love to know how you would tackle a question like this.

Thank you in advance

 

[Ria Sharma]

Hi Jaysen,

Thank you for creating this thread, and all the support you give on TCLA!

My question is regarding vacation schemes and commercial awareness. If you do not have previous first year experience or open day experience with a firm you are interested in, what other ways can you demonstrate your interest in the firm to be a competitive applicant? Furthermore, does this lack of experience put you at a disadvantage?

Also, a question regarding commercial awareness if you have time, I understand that reading the news daily and listening to podcasts is an optimal way to improve CA, but would you suggest any particular time-efficient ways to read the news which will not only help the knowledge stick but also be applicable during the application process?

Thank you!

 

[Avi.d]

Hi Jeysen,

I hope you are well, and thank you for taking the time answer questions!
I came across a question on a TC application recently and it threw me off. It asked something along the lines of 'Give an example of a time when you have broken the rules, and explain why'. I'm not really sure if it's a bit of a trick question or how to go about answering it.

It would also be great to hear your insight as to how Covid-19 might impact law firms overall.

Thank you!

 

[Jaysen]

Amazing questions, thank you guys. I'll be back answering these shortly!

 

[LouiseDu4]

Hi Jaysen,

I was wondering how you dealt with rejections, did you re-apply to those same firms that rejected you? Or did you move on and find different firms?

 

[Jean]

Hi Jaysen, I have a question on applications. When will work experiences be considered "too old" to be included?

 

[Salma Asghar]

Hi Jaysen, thank you for creating this great platform-it has been extremely helpful! I have a question around your student-life. It can be easy to get distracted by student-life within university itself-now more than ever. How did you increase productivity and make sure you were using your time wisely-without 'wasting your university years'?

 

[Jaysen]

Hi Jaysen,

I had some trouble deciding which firm is right to apply to, and whilst I am still trying to keep an open mind, I've decided that I want to prioritise firms with a phenomenal M&A team.

I see you were a trainee at Weil and you had vacation schemes at the firm and Jones Day. My question then is, would one have to tailor their application to an M&A approach if applying for these firms or would firms prefer the applicant to talk about another sector within their expertise even if it does not generate the most revenue?

It's great that you're thinking about the kind of firm that suits you.

If you have an interest in M&A then that's great to mention when applying to a firm with a strong M&A practice. This isn't something you need to do, but for you, it sounds like a genuine reason why you are applying.

One of the keys to a 'why this firm?' question is to lead with your genuine reasons for applying. If you think from the perspective of 'what does the firm want me to talk about?', your answers are more likely to come across as impersonal or they'll sound like all the other generic answers. With that in mind, there's no need to talk about another practice area unless that practice area also interests you.

If a practice area does interest you, but only plays a very small role within a firm, I'd re-think why you are applying to that firm. To a firm, it might come across as unconvincing as you may not have the opportunity to sit there during your training contract.

 

[Jaysen]

Hi Jaysen,

Before I asked my question(s), I just wanted to say a huge personal thank you for all the help and support you have given me. It has certainly boosted my confidence in myself for this process and given me the belief that I can eventually get that dream TC.

Given your vast experience, my question is based on being and presenting oneself as a 'stand out candidate'. As someone who struggles with selling themselves whether in an application or an interview, do you have any tips/advice as to detailing experiences and achievements to really be a memorable candidate? I am not sure if this question is too specific, but I feel a lot of candidates struggle with being generic and I want to see how to go really beyond that considering the process is so competitive.

If I may ask a second question, I just wanted to ask what is the best way to make the most out of LinkedIn and get some key insights to firms to strengthen applications etc? Is it simply just putting yourself out there and seeing what sticks?

Thanks.

Thank you for the kind words and great questions!

1.

This is one of the biggest issues I see in applications and interviews, as well as something I personally struggled with, so you're definitely not alone in feeling this. Candidates sometimes feel they are being arrogant or fake if they start selling themselves because they're not used to talking about themselves or seeing themselves in a particular light.

The truth is you're not being arrogant if you sell yourself; you're just being honest about your good traits. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of your achievements because you've clearly worked hard to get to where you are today. It took some time to re-wire my thinking on this and it's a work in progress!

The other thing to note is that if you don't sell yourself in an interview, no-one else will do it for you. That means a recruiter may not be able to grasp how impressive you actually are and may feel you don't 'stand out', only because you were too conscious of how it might come across.

Now, to answer your question as to how you go about selling yourself, I'd start by noting that it's not generally about how impressive your experiences are, it's about the way you pitch them. If you're in a position to secure more experiences, that's great; at same time, many candidates dismiss the experiences they have already, when often they are very impressive.

To do this, I'd go through each of your experiences and tease out the most important achievements/highlights within that experience. Often candidates think too narrowly here. For example, if you worked at McDonalds, you might think: How did I manage the pressure of dealing with such a high volume of customers? How did I communicate with the rest of my team? What training did I provide to other team members? What feedback did I receive about my performance?

Here, you want to show, rather than tell. This means rather than simply stating in an application or interview: 'I developed leadership, teamworking and communication skills', you want to show how you developed these skills by discussing exactly what you were doing within an experience. The more specific you can be, the easier it is to prove that you demonstrated a particular competency, as well as highlight how impressive an experience is. Likewise, if it's appropriate, try to quantify what you did.

There are also differences with how you sell in an application and interview. In an application, I'd concentrate on being extremely concise and making sure each of your examples is packed with specific, relevant detail (rather than waffle). In an interview, it's more important to think about the way you sell your story - happy to expand on this if you need me to.

2.

In terms of making the most of LinkedIn, it really depends on what you wish to use it for. What did you have in mind here?

 

[Jaysen]

Hi Jaysen,

Thank you a lot for the opportunity to ask questions in this thread. Mine is about direct TC applications to US firms.

I think it’s quite clear that the vast majority of them recruit predominantly from their vac schemes. I’ve been told that direct TC applications to US firms are more or less a waste of time, and they’re only there as an after-thought because one or two spots couldn’t be filled from the vac scheme bunch. Chances of success are slim to none.

I’m contemplating doing a couple direct TC applications now, with specifically Cleary, Weil, Latham and Sidley in mind, and I’m wondering if there is any true in this?

I’ve done one vac scheme as it is, and have one more in the summer, both with MC circle firms. Do you think my choice of vac scheme firms will put me at a disadvantage?

You are right in that if a US firm states they recruit the majority of candidates through its vacation scheme, it's going to be trickier on paper because you're competing for a smaller number of places. This doesn't necessarily mean it's a waste of time though; if there's a US firm you particularly want to secure a training contract with and you can't afford to wait until the next vacation scheme round, then it's something to consider, especially if you feel confident in your own profile.

There was at least one trainee in my Weil intake who made it through by a direct training contract application. I believe at the time of applying she had a couple of vacation schemes behind here.

Personally, I imagine if a firm likes you but can't offer you a place, they'll consider moving you to a different intake or give you a vacation scheme offer instead. This happened to a candidate I mock interviewed last year, who was placed on the Cleary winter vacation scheme despite interviewing for a direct training contract.

Nothing wrong with your choice of firms there, just be prepared to have a well-justified answer at interview as to why you applied for vacation schemes at those firms (and how the current US firm differs).

 

[Jaysen]

Hi Jaysen,

Thank you for making this thread and offering your help! I have an AC with Reed Smith coming up and one of the questions I am planning for is 'what skills do you have that will add to the firm's growth'. I was thinking about the usual skills such as 'communication, analysis and teamwork etc' but the last part of specifying the firm's growth makes it seem like they want more. I would love to know how you would tackle a question like this.

Thank you in advance

That's an unusual question! So with questions like this, I'd start from scratch, rather than thinking about how you'd answer a similar question (like 'what skills do you have that will make you a good trainee?'). Otherwise your answer is likely to be less focused.

As a starting point, I'd try to think about the different ways a trainee could add to a 'firm's growth'. This is quite broad; it could be anything from supporting associates/partners in a deal to language skills. When tying these in to a firm's growth, try to consider what causes a firm to grow (e.g. securing new clients/increasing work from existing clients/improving a firm's reputation/expanding into new markets etc.).

You can then think about what specific skills you have that could aid a firm's growth. Think about what your USPs are here: Are you innovative? What specific communication skills do you have and how would this help a firm?

Finally, it's important not to forget that we want to use this as an opportunity to show off our knowledge of Reed Smith. So, to inform your answer, we want to think about what kind of firm Reed Smith is and what it tends to invest in at the moment. This can then ensure your answers are specifically tailored to the firm.

 

[Jaysen]

Hi Jaysen,

Thank you for creating this thread, and all the support you give on TCLA!

My question is regarding vacation schemes and commercial awareness. If you do not have previous first year experience or open day experience with a firm you are interested in, what other ways can you demonstrate your interest in the firm to be a competitive applicant? Furthermore, does this lack of experience put you at a disadvantage?

Also, a question regarding commercial awareness if you have time, I understand that reading the news daily and listening to podcasts is an optimal way to improve CA, but would you suggest any particular time-efficient ways to read the news which will not only help the knowledge stick but also be applicable during the application process?

Thank you!

No problem!

1.

The way I tend to see this is as follows: Done correctly, meeting a firm is a great way to bump your 'why this firm?' answer to the top % of applicants. However, not meeting a firm isn't going to disadvantage your application.

Many candidates who haven't personally met a firm go on to secure interviews, you just need to make sure that you genuinely understand the firm you're applying to and have thought deeply about why you want to work at that particular firm. In other words, pick out clear and specific reasons which are fairly unique to the firm you're applying to and explain why these points personally appeal to you.

One final thing to add here: One of the big benefits of meeting a firm at an open day/firm event is you can then bring in what you learned about a firm in your application/interview. This shows you've gone out of your way to find out more about a firm, beyond online research. That said, if you can't attend either of these, LinkedIn offers some new opportunities here. Once lockdown is over, consider connecting with a trainee/associate/partner and asking them if they'd be willing to meet for a coffee. I've seen a few candidates do this recently and they were often surprised at how willing a lawyer was to meet them. You can then mention what you learned about a firm in your application form.

2.

There's quite a few ways to approach this. I'd try to find a method which you're most likely to stick with over the long term, whether that's listening to podcasts or reading the Financial Times. If you make this a daily habit, this doesn't need to be time intensive (e.g. 30 minutes a day is plenty). At the start, I personally wouldn't worry too much if it doesn't seem to stick.

Over time, you should find yourself drawn to reading more about particular stories/researching around topics that interest you. This should give you a wide understanding of what's going on in the news and will lead to things starting to stick (you should find you start to make connections between stories). If you really want to fast-track this process, try writing an article on the topic and send it to people (whether that's via a blog or on LinkedIn). I find writing helps me to organise my thoughts much better and the public accountability forces me to think about how to communicate what I know clearly (which will pay dividends for you during interviews).

Shortly before interviews, you can then ramp up the time involved, so that you gain a deeper understanding of a few stories that genuinely interest you.

There's a lot I can say on this, so let me know if anything is unclear/you want me to expand on a something more specific!

 

[reneephilagbasi]

Hi Jaysen,

What are some of the ways you can demonstrate that you are 'globally minded' in a cover letter?

Thank you.

 

[relentlesspursuit]

Hi Jaysen

Thanks for this thread and all the good work you do on TCLA.

I am currently applying for a training contract at White & Case, and one of the things I want to mention as a reason for my interest is their growth strategy. I think they pursued organic growth under their 2020 vision which, despite resulting in a drop in their London revenue last year, is serving them quite well right now - they are one of the few firms that have not announced (not even internally - I heard from a friend there) any salary cuts or layoffs in response to the ongoing pandemic. However, I am cautious that I do not want to seem like I am just regurgitating information.

Do you have any tips on how to frame a firm's business strategy as a reason for your interest?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jaysen, I have a question on applications. When will work experiences be considered "too old" to be included?

to jump in on this one....

something is never too old. It might become less relevant or important though to you, as you may feel that you have more recent experiences that super-seed it. I have seen relevant experiences that are over 10 years old on applications and it was right/appropriate to include them.