Ask A Graduate Recruiter Anything!

[33c]

do you mean during the interview or post interview the feedback from your vac scheme is weighed up?

I mean when being considered for a post-VS TC, how much weight is given to performance on the VS alongside the post-VS TC interview.

 

[acceleratedlaw]

Hi Jessica, what’s the best way to approach being asked about not being successful in securing a training contract following a previous VS? Especially when the feedback received is mostly positive ...

 

[Jessica Booker]

I mean when being considered for a post-VS TC, how much weight is given to performance on the VS alongside the post-VS TC interview.

There isn’t a set answer to this - it will depend on you as an individual and as a firm. But ultimately there will be a need to perform in both, otherwise there is no point of either exercise.

Reality is that someone who completely excels in a vac scheme probably has a little more room for a not so great performance in an interview, while someone with an average vac scheme probably needs an excellent interview. Think about it like collective “weight” - but that’s going to be on a much more granular level. For instance if there is a question about whether the firm is the right one for you from your vac scheme, and this is picked up on the interview too, you could ultimately do very well in both exercises but still be unsuccessful based on that one competency.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica, what’s the best way to approach being asked about not being successful in securing a training contract following a previous VS? Especially when the feedback received is mostly positive ...

There isn’t a set answer to this - it will depend on you as an individual and as a firm. But ultimately there will be a need to perform in both, otherwise there is no point of either exercise.

Reality is that someone who completely excels in a vac scheme probably has a little more room for a not so great performance in an interview, while someone with an average vac scheme probably needs an excellent interview. Think about it like collective “weight” - but that’s going to be on a much more granular level. For instance if there is a question about whether the firm is the right one for you from your vac scheme, and this is picked up on the interview too, you could ultimately do very well in both exercises but still be unsuccessful based on that one competency.

Take the feedback and your rational feelings/ideas as to why it didn’t happen. Take the positive feedback and think about how that has driven you forward. Explain how you have continued to grow/develop to ensure you are an even stronger candidate than last time.

Remember firms are not identical and are not looking for the exact same things in candidates.

 

[Naheed_PB]

Hi Jessica,

I've been a lurker on this forum for quite a time! I'm incoming second year student(law),a nd I have a question about Watson glaser tests.

This year, I've gotten some first year schemes(like HSF, DLA Piper, Linklaters), however, also applied to many other firms where they used a Watson Glazer test. I usually got past the app stage(assuming it wasn't automatic), but failed at the Watson test. So that is a area I need to work on. I was particularly disappointed as I got an invite for Freshfields, and CMS , and got rejected following the test.

As I think you was at Freshfields a few years ago, do you know the general or maybe suggested percentile to aim for, especially for magic circle firms? I have googled and have seen on this forum that some firms, like Hogan Lovells, have a high percentile like 80+ (not sure if that is true).I've been practising a lot lately, and I average around 62 percentile, the highest being 70 for me, so I'm really worried as i feel like I wasted a lot of applications this year because of this stage, and am hoping that firms like Freshfields and Clifford Chance do not have such a high percentile..

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I've been a lurker on this forum for quite a time! I'm incoming second year student(law),a nd I have a question about Watson glaser tests.

This year, I've gotten some first year schemes(like HSF, DLA Piper, Linklaters), however, also applied to many other firms where they used a Watson Glazer test. I usually got past the app stage(assuming it wasn't automatic), but failed at the Watson test. So that is a area I need to work on. I was particularly disappointed as I got an invite for Freshfields, and CMS , and got rejected following the test.

As I think you was at Freshfields a few years ago, do you know the general or maybe suggested percentile to aim for, especially for magic circle firms? I have googled and have seen on this forum that some firms, like Hogan Lovells, have a high percentile like 80+ (not sure if that is true).I've been practising a lot lately, and I average around 62 percentile, the highest being 70 for me, so I'm really worried as i feel like I wasted a lot of applications this year because of this stage, and am hoping that firms like Freshfields and Clifford Chance do not have such a high percentile..

FBD changed the test a couple of years after I left.

But even if I knew and I told you the percentile, it means very little to you as you don’t know the norm group you are being assessed against.

Percentile benchmarks generally range from low 20s through to low 70s but as I stressed this means very little anyway.

I highly doubt any firm has a percentile above the 80th unless they don’t give a damn about diversity. But then again you could be assessed against a norm group of 5 year olds and maybe a percentile of 80th or above would be appropriate.

Norm groups are not identical across firms, so you could do one assessment and have the 40th percentile with one firm and the 80th percentile with the next because they are benchmarking you in different ways.

The other thing to stress is that people often assume it is the psychometric test that is the reason for being unsuccessful. In many cases, it may be that your application has subsequent been screened and that the decision has been made on the basis of your application or your application and the test result, rather than the test alone.

 

[Naheed_PB]

FBD changed the test a couple of years after I left.

But even if I knew and I told you the percentile, it means very little to you as you don’t know the norm group you are being assessed against.

Percentile benchmarks generally range from low 20s through to low 70s but as I stressed this means very little anyway.

I highly doubt any firm has a percentile above the 80th unless they don’t give a damn about diversity. But then again you could be assessed against a norm group of 5 year olds and maybe a percentile of 80th or above would be appropriate.

Norm groups are not identical across firms, so you could do one assessment and have the 40th percentile with one firm and the 80th percentile with the next because they are benchmarking you in different ways.

The other thing to stress is that people often assume it is the psychometric test that is the reason for being unsuccessful. In many cases, it may be that your application has subsequent been screened and that the decision has been made on the basis of your application or your application and the test result, rather than the test alone.

FBD changed the test a couple of years after I left.

But even if I knew and I told you the percentile, it means very little to you as you don’t know the norm group you are being assessed against.

Percentile benchmarks generally range from low 20s through to low 70s but as I stressed this means very little anyway.

I highly doubt any firm has a percentile above the 80th unless they don’t give a damn about diversity. But then again you could be assessed against a norm group of 5 year olds and maybe a percentile of 80th or above would be appropriate.

Norm groups are not identical across firms, so you could do one assessment and have the 40th percentile with one firm and the 80th percentile with the next because they are benchmarking you in different ways.

The other thing to stress is that people often assume it is the psychometric test that is the reason for being unsuccessful. In many cases, it may be that your application has subsequent been screened and that the decision has been made on the basis of your application or your application and the test result, rather than the test alone.

Thanks, sounds good. I Will take this into account when applying

 

[SRW]

Hi @Jessica Booker

I had to exit out of a verbal reasoning test and start again because our house alarm went off (what are the chances). When I re-started the test, the passages were harder than the first test. I didn't even know you could re-start in the first place (it was a SHL test) - should I notify the interviewer of this at the end of my interview?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker

I had to exit out of a verbal reasoning test and start again because our house alarm went off (what are the chances). When I re-started the test, the passages were harder than the first test. I didn't even know you could re-start in the first place (it was a SHL test) - should I notify the interviewer of this at the end of my interview?

The passages won't have been harder - just different. But it is odd that you were able to restart it.

Don't tell your interviewer unless they are graduate recruitment. If they are an associate/partner, you need to contact the Grad Rec team now and let them know ASAP.

 

[SRW]

The passages won't have been harder - just different. But it is odd that you were able to restart it.

Don't tell your interviewer unless they are graduate recruitment. If they are an associate/partner, you need to contact the Grad Rec team now and let them know ASAP.

Thank you! Just emailed them now. I was only on the second question of the first test before I exited so I hope they'll see I wasn't restarting to get a new test.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you! Just emailed them now. I was only on the second question of the first test before I exited so I hope they'll see I wasn't restarting to get a new test.

Normally you wouldn’t be able to re-start a test. Even if you could, you’d just start a new test from the start (which is what might have happened), but it’s worthwhile telling the graduate recruitment team just in case there are any technical issues.

 

[WinnieAnn]

Hi @Jessica Booker, what's your take on including a role that I haven't started in the work experience section of applications?

I have been accepted for an internship that begins in February 2021. Would it be okay to state that I have been selected after a competitive application and interview process and provide a brief breakdown of what the role will entail?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker, what's your take on including a role that I haven't started in the work experience section of applications?

I have been accepted for an internship that begins in February 2021. Would it be okay to state that I have been selected after a competitive application and interview process and provide a brief breakdown of what the role will entail?

You can state it on an application - but I wouldn't put it in a work experience section (as you haven't done it yet - and although you have a job description, you don't actually know what you will be doing so can't claim any of the type of responsibilities the job will entail).

These type of things are good for cover letters or "extra information" sections on application forms.

Recruitment processes are typically competitive - you don't need to labour that point (can often come across a bit trite when people do this).

If you do put it in a work experience section - don't provide any details beyond the job title, employer and dates the internship will take place.

 

[Anna W]

Hi Jessica!

I know this topic has been discussed a bit before but I was wondering how "average" grades are going to be viewed this year. The grades I received this year were quite consistent with the grades I had received in previous years (albeit a bit lower than I had hoped as I had a tough time last year and was trying to do better in my final year and I found our alternative assessments quite confusing). However, I know a lot of people who performed a lot better this year than they did in previous years. I was wondering if my grades this year would be considered poor when compared to other people's grades?

Thanks!!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica!

I know this topic has been discussed a bit before but I was wondering how "average" grades are going to be viewed this year. The grades I received this year were quite consistent with the grades I had received in previous years (albeit a bit lower than I had hoped as I had a tough time last year and was trying to do better in my final year and I found our alternative assessments quite confusing). However, I know a lot of people who performed a lot better this year than they did in previous years. I was wondering if my grades this year would be considered poor when compared to other people's grades?

Thanks!!

I think academics full stop will be taken with a pinch of salt this year whether why are high or low. The ways in which universities have put measures in to compensate mean that even more than ever you are not matching like for like, and so the value of them (whether bad, average or good) means a lot less this year.

When you say “average” what do you mean?

 

[PK]

Hi @Jessica Booker , I have informed my employer that I am attending a vac scheme at the end of the month because a term in my contract alludes to this. They have now come back to me saying they cannot allow this as they believe the firm is a competitor and need a breakdown of what I will do on the vac scheme and even at that, they may not allow it. Do you think this is something I should mention to grad rec for the firm I intend to join and request a breakdown as my employer is worried and just in general, any advice on what to do please. Thank you in advance

 

[Anna W]

I think academics full stop will be taken with a pinch of salt this year whether why are high or low. The ways in which universities have put measures in to compensate mean that even more than ever you are not matching like for like, and so the value of them (whether bad, average or good) means a lot less this year.

When you say “average” what do you mean?

That's good to know!

I got a high 2:1 in a non-law subject which I know is fine but I was just concerned that it might be treated differently this year considering a lot of people seemed to have gotten firsts.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker , I have informed my employer that I am attending a vac scheme at the end of the month because a term in my contract alludes to this. They have now come back to me saying they cannot allow this as they believe the firm is a competitor and need a breakdown of what I will do on the vac scheme and even at that, they may not allow it. Do you think this is something I should mention to grad rec for the firm I intend to join and request a breakdown as my employer is worried and just in general, any advice on what to do please. Thank you in advance

This is actually quite common and why many people cannot take up vacation schemes if they are working in law firms already.

I don’t think the vac scheme firm will be able to tell you exactly what you could be doing as this will be dependent on many variables.

You can ask but be prepared for any of the following:

- vac scheme firm not being able to provide such detail

- your employer still rejecting your request to do the vacation scheme anyway.

 

[Jessica Booker]

That's good to know!

I got a high 2:1 in a non-law subject which I know is fine but I was just concerned that it might be treated differently this year considering a lot of people seemed to have gotten firsts.

unfortunately it’s more the value of a first has somewhat eroded this year if anything

 

[TChopeful2021]

I think academics full stop will be taken with a pinch of salt this year whether why are high or low. The ways in which universities have put measures in to compensate mean that even more than ever you are not matching like for like, and so the value of them (whether bad, average or good) means a lot less this year.

When you say “average” what do you mean?

Hi Jessica. Do you have any advice for people who’s had poor first year grades but was hoping to use this year to ‘redeem’ themselves?

Do you think putting where we placed within the cohort would help? (E.g: top 1-3%). Or if applicable, emphasis that the grades were not based on the no detriment policy but were our actual assessment grades?

My first year performance was very average. Although I did have extenuating circumstances, I still wanted to show firms what I’m capable of and honestly worked so hard this year. It is somewhat disappointing to think the value of my hard work will be compromised.