Ask A Graduate Recruiter Anything!

[Flk10]

Hi Jessica,

When applying for internships and other short-term roles in advance of commencing a training contract, would you advise always mentioning the fact that I will be starting a training contract on x date or will this put some employers off?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica. Do you have any advice for people who’s had poor first year grades but was hoping to use this year to ‘redeem’ themselves?

Do you think putting where we placed within the cohort would help? (E.g: top 1-3%). Or if applicable, emphasis that the grades were not based on the no detriment policy but were our actual assessment grades?

My first year performance was very average. Although I did have extenuating circumstances, I still wanted to show firms what I’m capable of and honestly worked so hard this year. It is somewhat disappointing to think the value of my hard work will be compromised.

its not going to be compromised. I would do as you have suggested with the where you were in the cohort (where you can) and yes explain if there was no adjustment to your grades

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

When applying for internships and other short-term roles in advance of commencing a training contract, would you advise always mentioning the fact that I will be starting a training contract on x date or will this put some employers off?

If you are starting a training contact you shouldn’t really be applying for internships as such. They are a pipeline to then recruit graduates and you have committed to starting a TC elsewhere

 

[orange32]

Hi Jessica. I've been having a bit of an unsuccessful streak with TC applications lately and wanted to ask for your expertise on whether you think certain experiences/characteristics I have are making this the case.

1. I did very well at undergrad in terms of results and completed the Cambridge LLM, and thought this would be a major advantage, but I was just wondering whether this in fact puts me at a disadvantage - in pinning me down as a barrister/academic type and less suited for a commercial solicitor (esp because I have previous mini-pupillage / academic work exp). I think it may be because I chose subjects which aren't necessarily commercial-related. If so how do you think I should frame/present my degree?

2. I'm not originally from UK and since I've finished my education I am currently resident in my home country (in Asia). Even though I have a UK LLB and postgrad, could my current location be putting firms off / do firms have a policy of generally prioritising people who are currently resident in UK? I had more success with apps when I was actually doing my undergrad / postgrad (and put down a UK address) but for my recent summer apps I've put down my address in my home country. If this is the case then I think I might transition my efforts to applying for TCs in Asia rather than UK.

 

[Jessica Booker]

1) your academics wouldn’t do this alone. It would only really be other information (work experience/motivational answers/extra curriculars) that would put you in the “barrister” category. Lots of successful candidates don’t do commercial modules - especially non-lawyers so I don’t think that is necessarily the issue either. You have to think about your application as a whole though - if it’s not in your academics, where is the evidence of your interest in commercial matters instead?

2) it used to be the case that firms had to prioritise U.K. residents even if they were international students. Getting a work permit for someone like yourself who was residing outside of the U.K. currently is practically impossible for a training contract because it requires the employer to prove they could recruit from within the U.K (doing a resident labour market test and providing evidence of that for visa purposes). Those transferring from a student visa was slightly more straight forward because it didn’t require the RLMT. However the work permit process changes on 1 January 2021 and it doesn’t matter if you are in or outside of the U.K. - the same process will need to be adhered to. It will make the process for you better as many more firms will be able to consider you.

There could be a bigger concern around why you want a career in the U.K. compared to your home country though. It will be important to nail this in any motivational answers too.

 

[orange32]

mmercial modules - especially non-lawyers so I don’t think that is necessarily the issue either. You have to think about your application as a whole though - if it’

Great, thanks so much for your advice Jessica. I really appreciate it. I agree that I might be a bit lacking in other areas (eg extracurriculars) to show real commercial awareness/interest and it might not just be my academics.

Just to clarify - from 1 January 2021 I would be treated the same for work permit / sponsorship purposes as international students currently in the UK? If so that's great news.

Also, I have not commenced the LPC yet - if I did commence the LPC would I also be eligible for the student to Tier 2 visa conversion (if that made recruitment easier)?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Great, thanks so much for your advice Jessica. I really appreciate it. I agree that I might be a bit lacking in other areas (eg extracurriculars) to show real commercial awareness/interest and it might not just be my academics.

Just to clarify - from 1 January 2021 I would be treated the same for work permit / sponsorship purposes as international students currently in the UK? If so that's great news.

Yes - the visa process is the same as the need for the RLMT is removed.

It is probably worthwhile having a quick read of this:

https://www.burges-salmon.com/news-...mean-for-employers-who-recruit-from-overseas/

 

[orange32]

Yes - the visa process is the same as the need for the RLMT is removed.

It is probably worthwhile having a quick read of this:

https://www.burges-salmon.com/news-...mean-for-employers-who-recruit-from-overseas/

Great, thanks Jessica!

 

[QXW]

Hello Jessica!

I am going into my final year this September and I was wondering if you can give me some advice on the following:

1. I've been a little intimidated by networking in my first and second year and have done very little networking (I attended 2 law fairs and 2 insights events in total up to now). I believe I am an adequately sociable person (I am in 3 uni societies and am acting as communications and marketing director in one of them), but will my lack of networking experience decrease my chance at securing a VS or TC? How exactly does networking play into securing VS and TCs, aside from simply training interpersonal skills?

2. I have heard previously from someone who is currently working at a London city firm that, taking an LLM will not help with VS or TC applications, unless it's from Oxbridge, is this true? I have a genuine interest in competition, admin law and legal theory, and genuinely want to pursue further studies in these areas, will it be a waste of money to do an LLM even then?

3. Since I am an international student, I won't be able to stay in the UK upon graduation and wait for subsequent cycles. Will firms consider my application equally with other candidates if I am working abroad as a graduate and have no valid visa in the UK?

4. At the moment, I have had little work experience in the UK (I volunteered with citizens advice for a year, interned at a local immigration firm for a summer), will this be detrimental to my application? Is decent work experience in other countries considered? e.g. I am currently interning at a big city firm in Beijing, and am planning to do some government work experience in Canada.

Many thanks for reading through this long post!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hello Jessica!

I am going into my final year this September and I was wondering if you can give me some advice on the following:

1. I've been a little intimidated by networking in my first and second year and have done very little networking (I attended 2 law fairs and 2 insights events in total up to now). I believe I am an adequately sociable person (I am in 3 uni societies and am acting as communications and marketing director in one of them), but will my lack of networking experience decrease my chance at securing a VS or TC? How exactly does networking play into securing VS and TCs, aside from simply training interpersonal skills?

2. I have heard previously from someone who is currently working at a London city firm that, taking an LLM will not help with VS or TC applications, unless it's from Oxbridge, is this true? I have a genuine interest in competition, admin law and legal theory, and genuinely want to pursue further studies in these areas, will it be a waste of money to do an LLM even then?

3. Since I am an international student, I won't be able to stay in the UK upon graduation and wait for subsequent cycles. Will firms consider my application equally with other candidates if I am working abroad as a graduate and have no valid visa in the UK?

4. At the moment, I have had little work experience in the UK (I volunteered with citizens advice for a year, interned at a local immigration firm for a summer), will this be detrimental to my application? Is decent work experience in other countries considered? e.g. I am currently interning at a big city firm in Beijing, and am planning to do some government work experience in Canada.

Many thanks for reading through this long post!

1) you have two insight days - that’s actually a good amount of “networking”. Networking helps to inform you, it doesn’t help you directly secure a TC - it just gives you the opportunity to learn so your applications can be strong. But that can be done through other means that are not networking.

2) Most times a LLM (even from Oxbridge) does not help you secure a TC. It is not a magic ticket that put you at the front of the queue. All it does is buy you another year to develop your CV, but considering most people apply at the start of the LLM - so they have no other evidence apart from starting the LLM, it means very little. It’s going to mean even less in a recession where too many people jump fo on to do postgraduate study. The exception is if you are going into a niche firm (eg shipping) then you might need an LLM that covers that particular type of law.

3) That would be one benefit of an LLM in the U.K. you would be eligible for a two year post study visa if you are graduating next summer/autumn. But that doesn’t actually help you with the training contract visa it would just allow you to stay in the U.K. for two years. The visa process is about to get a lot easier for people who are residing outside of the U.K./aren’t transferring from a student visa. That new easier process starts on 1 January 2021 - there is a post a few back that explains this is more detail. Firms don’t consider applications equally no matter what the background though - their job is to work out which applications are the best. With international students, especially if they have little to no connection to the city they are applying to, they really need to explain why that location, why you are going to stay long term, and basically make sure it is clear this ain’t just going to be a two year stint so you can return to your home country as a U.K. qualified lawyer (even if the firm has an office there).

4) a bit like your attitude towards “networking” you are undervaluing your work experience. You need more belief in it rather than thinking it isn’t enough. Of course experience in other countries is considered!! Why wouldn’t it be? Even working as a ski chalet maid in France will have transferable skills to being a lawyer. It’s your responsibility to explain that transferable skills and knowledge.

 

[jan28]

Hi Jessica,

I'm a graduate and I was thinking of starting my GDL this September - but having read that both BPP and ULaw will have exams during December this makes doing winter schemes unfeasible. So I'm now thinking of starting the GDL in January, hoping I secure schemes by then. What are the downsides of doing it in Jan than Sept - will this be looked unfavourably by the firms? Perhaps if I do manage to get a TC by January, I could cancel my PG student loan too. Eager to hear your thoughts, thanks

 

[Sam55]

Hi Jess,

After further deliberation I have decided to self fund the GDL at ulaw Moorgate. I feel like I've been really unfortunate this year in that I managed to secure 4 VS (although had to reject one due to overlap and another cancelled due to covid) but I have not managed to secure a TC.

I was wondering if you had any advice on what I can do during my time on the GDL to make myself an even more competitive applicant and if there are any specific opportunities you recommend I take?

Also, does having multiple vac schemes disadvantage any applications because they will know I have been unsuccessful in securing the TC? Especially if I am applying to more prestigious firms than the ones I had vac schemes at? Do you also think it is worth mentioning my additional cancelled vac scheme in an additional information part of any applications?

Sorry for the influx of questions but my parents are helping me self fund and I really want to be successful in the coming year and make sure that their help doesn't go to waste.

Thanks so much for the help!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I'm a graduate and I was thinking of starting my GDL this September - but having read that both BPP and ULaw will have exams during December this makes doing winter schemes unfeasible. So I'm now thinking of starting the GDL in January, hoping I secure schemes by then. What are the downsides of doing it in Jan than Sept - will this be looked unfavourably by the firms? Perhaps if I do manage to get a TC by January, I could cancel my PG student loan too. Eager to hear your thoughts, thanks

No disadvantage at all. Starting in January sounds quite logical - e.g. giving you time to do Winter Scheme(s) - you might want to even explain that in an extra info section on an application form.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jess,

After further deliberation I have decided to self fund the GDL at ulaw Moorgate. I feel like I've been really unfortunate this year in that I managed to secure 4 VS (although had to reject one due to overlap and another cancelled due to covid) but I have not managed to secure a TC.

I was wondering if you had any advice on what I can do during my time on the GDL to make myself an even more competitive applicant and if there are any specific opportunities you recommend I take?

Also, does having multiple vac schemes disadvantage any applications because they will know I have been unsuccessful in securing the TC? Especially if I am applying to more prestigious firms than the ones I had vac schemes at? Do you also think it is worth mentioning my additional cancelled vac scheme in an additional information part of any applications?

Sorry for the influx of questions but my parents are helping me self fund and I really want to be successful in the coming year and make sure that their help doesn't go to waste.

Thanks so much for the help!

1) It is no different to any other applicant - continue to network and take up opportunities to learn/grow, whether they are insight programmes, online learning, networking and the like. If you can and you think you have capacity, consider any extra curricular activities while doing the GDL too.

2) No disadvantage - particularly in this recruitment cycle. Firms are going to know converting schemes this summer would be particularly difficult and not necessarily an indication of your abilities. I would mention the cancelled vacation scheme, but you can't really mention the one you turned down (unfortunately!).

 

[Sam55]

1) It is no different to any other applicant - continue to network and take up opportunities to learn/grow, whether they are insight programmes, online learning, networking and the like. If you can and you think you have capacity, consider any extra curricular activities while doing the GDL too.

2) No disadvantage - particularly in this recruitment cycle. Firms are going to know converting schemes this summer would be particularly difficult and not necessarily an indication of your abilities. I would mention the cancelled vacation scheme, but you can't really mention the one you turned down (unfortunately!).

Thank you Jessica, your insight is really appreciated as always!!

 

[Matt_96]

Hi Jessica,

I've been invited to interview at a mid-size/smaller private client firm next week. Unlike with many city firms, there isn't a lot online about them from a training perspective and I cannot find any records online about their interview process e.g. on the TCLA website or Glassdoor etc.

The instructions from the graduate recruiter are vague: I have to do an exercise in 'identifying key points in a given scenario' for an hour and then have an interview with two partners.

I think for the partner interview it's obvious I should prepare some answers for core competency questions and those relating to current issues in the firm's specialist fields, but I have no idea how I should approach the exercise.

Do you have any suggestions about what I should be doing, if anything?

Thanks

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I've been invited to interview at a mid-size/smaller private client firm next week. Unlike with many city firms, there isn't a lot online about them from a training perspective and I cannot find any records online about their interview process e.g. on the TCLA website or Glassdoor etc.

The instructions from the graduate recruiter are vague: I have to do an exercise in 'identifying key points in a given scenario' for an hour and then have an interview with two partners.

I think for the partner interview it's obvious I should prepare some answers for core competency questions and those relating to current issues in the firm's specialist fields, but I have no idea how I should approach the exercise.

Do you have any suggestions about what I should be doing, if anything?

Thanks

Unfortunately I can't really help beyond general case study advice already provided here:

Case study advice

You'll just need to think of it more from a private client perspective than a corporate client perspective. The things that private clients concern themselves about and want to be treated as a client, will be very different to commercial clients.

 

[Jawad Elazar]

@Jessica Booker
Hello Jessica,
I had a question regarding the post-study work visa for international students. I am planning to begin my LPC by September 2020 - my Tier 4 visa is likely to be valid up until August 2021. Will I be eligible to apply for the post-study work visa? Or will it depend on the date the Home Office decides to implement this post-study work visa?
Thanks in advance for your help and input!

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker
Hello Jessica,
I had a question regarding the post-study work visa for international students. I am planning to begin my LPC by September 2020 - my Tier 4 visa is likely to be valid up until August 2021. Will I be eligible to apply for the post-study work visa? Or will it depend on the date the Home Office decides to implement this post-study work visa?
Thanks in advance for your help and input!

are you doing the LLM LPC?

 

[SamsanTech]

Hi Jessica,

Are BTECs looked down upon in the application process?

I completed a mixture of A-levels and a BTEC for college. I achieved Business (A), Economics (A), and Information Technology (Distinction* Distinction) which is equivalent to 200 UCAS points so it meets the AAB equivalent.

I am currently in my final year and achieved mid 2.1s for my first and second year. Would I still be able to apply to top city law firms?

I just wanted to to get your opinion on this.

Thanks in advance!