Ask A Graduate Recruiter Anything!

[ellabasing]

Hi Jess,
I have been applying to Vacation Schemes for this summer with the hope of securing a TC, but unfortunately, have not yet been successful. While I am waiting to hear back from the remaining few, I have also been looking into applying for Paralegal/Legal Secretary roles in the case that I am not able to secure a VS. I originally planned to start my PGDL this September, however would you recommend to just apply for these roles despite not having completed this qualification yet or is that something I can’t do until I complete the PGDL and SQE? I have tried to do some research on this, but it seems that some firms explicitly state these qualifications as prerequisites, while others do not. Any advice or information you have would be greatly appreciated!

 

[LKlegend]

Hi @Jessica Booker ,

I just got invited for an AC but the only date available is the one I am travelling albeit I am travelling at night I have university lessons in the morning as well. Do you think its worth emailing them about an alternative date with the excuse that I am travelling on that day?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker ,

I just got invited for an AC but the only date available is the one I am travelling albeit I am travelling at night I have university lessons in the morning as well. Do you think its worth emailing them about an alternative date with the excuse that I am travelling on that day?

It will be fine to ask whether they have alternative dates no matter what your other commitments are. The worst that can happen is they say no and then you have to work out whether 1) change your plans or 2) decline the offer to attend.

 

[mailer]

Hi Jessica,

I have a question about what happens if your training contract is revoked, say for failing SQE 1, and the firm asks for your exam fees, course fees, and/or maintenance grant back. In the case of a London TC, this could be a total nearing £30,000 at the higher end. I imagine the likely position of the majority in this scenario would be that they are just recently out of university with no savings, now no employment, and are not able to fall back on family for such a large sum. I also cannot imagine most being able to get a commercial loan for the sum either.

The only way I could therefore see paying such an amount back without leaving the ex-TC holder in serious financial difficulty would be a payment plan over at least quite a few years. Is this how firms would approach it, and would they charge interest?

Thank you very much for your insight into what is quite a point of anxiety for me, and I'm sure others!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I have a question about what happens if your training contract is revoked, say for failing SQE 1, and the firm asks for your exam fees, course fees, and/or maintenance grant back. In the case of a London TC, this could be a total nearing £30,000 at the higher end. I imagine the likely position of the majority in this scenario would be that they are just recently out of university with no savings, now no employment, and are not able to fall back on family for such a large sum. I also cannot imagine most being able to get a commercial loan for the sum either.

The only way I could therefore see paying such an amount back without leaving the ex-TC holder in serious financial difficulty would be a payment plan over at least quite a few years. Is this how firms would approach it, and would they charge interest?

Thank you very much for your insight into what is quite a point of anxiety for me, and I'm sure others!

There is likely to be a payment plan put in place at 0% interest.

For instance, in one of the MC firms I worked in, someone dropped out of their TC and had to pay back the GDL, LPC and maintenance fees. That was over £35k and a very long time ago, but the individual paid back about £350 per month over around 7-8 years. That was agreed on the basis of what the individual could afford to repay each month.

 

[emma.l.shaw]

Hi Jessica,

I have a question relating to a training contract that I secured a couple of years ago and am due to start in September. I don't want to write something that will give me away too much but at the same time I need to give enough context to get advice. I have a TC at an incredible firm (150k NQ salary, everything you could ever dream of, loved it when I did the vac scheme there) and am due to start the conversion course in September. However, I have also been considering moving abroad to pursue a law degree and work as a lawyer there as I love this other country and have spent my gap year learning the language. I am kind of scared of giving up this opportunity and am worried in case I end up dropping the TC, moving abroad and then regretting it. I would be qualifying in another jurisdiction and so would have to do a TC again if I ever decided to come back. Lawyer salaries are not as good in this country, more highly taxed and firms are way smaller and have less perks and advantages than the big ones here. At the same time I love this other country, but am nearly at the end of the application process (have interviews next week) and scared that I'm getting cold feet about it. My family and partner and his family have been so supportive and they (especially my partner and his family) would be super upset and probably mad that they spent so much time and money helping my only for me to get it and turn it down anyway. I've spent my whole gap year on making this become a reality and now I'm almost scared of getting an acceptance in case it means I really have to consider dropping the TC here in the UK and everything that follows on from that. How easy is it to come back from another jurisdiction, do a conversion and start on a TC in the UK at a bit of a later age? Let's say I decided I did want to return and work in law here, would firms take me when I'm in at least my late 20s, maybe even early 30s? I'm scared of starting the TC as I'll be locking myself out of practising in this country, but if I qualify there, I'm scared I would never get considered for TCs later on if I decide to come back. I already deferred my TC for a year to take this gap year, so I assume they won't defer it for another year. It's really crunch time now and I need to decide which way to go, but I'm just all over the place and don't really know what to do

Any advice from someone who knows more about this than me?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I have a question relating to a training contract that I secured a couple of years ago and am due to start in September. I don't want to write something that will give me away too much but at the same time I need to give enough context to get advice. I have a TC at an incredible firm (150k NQ salary, everything you could ever dream of, loved it when I did the vac scheme there) and am due to start the conversion course in September. However, I have also been considering moving abroad to pursue a law degree and work as a lawyer there as I love this other country and have spent my gap year learning the language. I am kind of scared of giving up this opportunity and am worried in case I end up dropping the TC, moving abroad and then regretting it. I would be qualifying in another jurisdiction and so would have to do a TC again if I ever decided to come back. Lawyer salaries are not as good in this country, more highly taxed and firms are way smaller and have less perks and advantages than the big ones here. At the same time I love this other country, but am nearly at the end of the application process (have interviews next week) and scared that I'm getting cold feet about it. My family and partner and his family have been so supportive and they (especially my partner and his family) would be super upset and probably mad that they spent so much time and money helping my only for me to get it and turn it down anyway. I've spent my whole gap year on making this become a reality and now I'm almost scared of getting an acceptance in case it means I really have to consider dropping the TC here in the UK and everything that follows on from that. How easy is it to come back from another jurisdiction, do a conversion and start on a TC in the UK at a bit of a later age? Let's say I decided I did want to return and work in law here, would firms take me when I'm in at least my late 20s, maybe even early 30s? I'm scared of starting the TC as I'll be locking myself out of practising in this country, but if I qualify there, I'm scared I would never get considered for TCs later on if I decide to come back. I already deferred my TC for a year to take this gap year, so I assume they won't defer it for another year. It's really crunch time now and I need to decide which way to go, but I'm just all over the place and don't really know what to do

Any advice from someone who knows more about this than me?

If you qualified and had experience in another country, you wouldn’t be looking at training contracts if you did return to the U.K. Instead you’d be looking to transfer as a qualified lawyer.

I think you really have to work out where you want the next 3-4 years of your career to be, and go with that option.

Be mindful that you may also need to pay back and training costs you have incurred so far if you are looking to renege on your training contract. This could include the costs of your conversion course if you have started the onboarding processes for that course.

 

[emma.l.shaw]

If you qualified and had experience in another country, you wouldn’t be looking at training contracts if you did return to the U.K. Instead you’d be looking to transfer as a qualified lawyer.

I think you really have to work out where you want the next 3-4 years of your career to be, and go with that option.

Be mindful that you may also need to pay back and training costs you have incurred so far if you are looking to renege on your training contract. This could include the costs of your conversion course if you have started the onboarding processes for that course.

I see - is this something that happens often or that is accommodated in law firms? Is it likely that a magic circle firm would take me again later down the line if I was looking to transfer as a qualified lawyer?

I haven't started the onboarding process for the course yet, and the BPP terms and conditions are that you can cancel up to four weeks before the starting date, though I'm not sure what the firm itself's conditions are, and I'm a bit afraid to ask in case it reflects badly on me later on if I do go with the TC.

I may not even get offered a place on this foreign law degree anyway and then my decision is made, but as it stands I'm a bit concerned at not being sure about it even right before going to interviews for it, and so I'm leaning back towards starting the conversion in September as planned and doing the TC.

Thanks in advance for your help and replies!

 

[S87]

Hi Jessica,

I have a question relating to a training contract that I secured a couple of years ago and am due to start in September. I don't want to write something that will give me away too much but at the same time I need to give enough context to get advice. I have a TC at an incredible firm (150k NQ salary, everything you could ever dream of, loved it when I did the vac scheme there) and am due to start the conversion course in September. However, I have also been considering moving abroad to pursue a law degree and work as a lawyer there as I love this other country and have spent my gap year learning the language. I am kind of scared of giving up this opportunity and am worried in case I end up dropping the TC, moving abroad and then regretting it. I would be qualifying in another jurisdiction and so would have to do a TC again if I ever decided to come back. Lawyer salaries are not as good in this country, more highly taxed and firms are way smaller and have less perks and advantages than the big ones here. At the same time I love this other country, but am nearly at the end of the application process (have interviews next week) and scared that I'm getting cold feet about it. My family and partner and his family have been so supportive and they (especially my partner and his family) would be super upset and probably mad that they spent so much time and money helping my only for me to get it and turn it down anyway. I've spent my whole gap year on making this become a reality and now I'm almost scared of getting an acceptance in case it means I really have to consider dropping the TC here in the UK and everything that follows on from that. How easy is it to come back from another jurisdiction, do a conversion and start on a TC in the UK at a bit of a later age? Let's say I decided I did want to return and work in law here, would firms take me when I'm in at least my late 20s, maybe even early 30s? I'm scared of starting the TC as I'll be locking myself out of practising in this country, but if I qualify there, I'm scared I would never get considered for TCs later on if I decide to come back. I already deferred my TC for a year to take this gap year, so I assume they won't defer it for another year. It's really crunch time now and I need to decide which way to go, but I'm just all over the place and don't really know what to do

Any advice from someone who knows more about this than me?

Hi Emma,

Apologies for jumping on this but I can speak as I am someone coming from another jurisdiction.

I also spent a gap year in another lovely country and almost established my life there. Unfortunately, I can tell you that UK firms are not very aware of what happens outside their own world. I know that most of them are very global/international but it is a bit trickier than you think.

I know people who have qualified here at a super firm and found a very well-paid job at top firms in my home country. I wanted to provide you with different info but the reality is that..the city market is still extremely posh. I know that you spent a gap year somewhere but sometimes it might not give us a true reflection of the challenges you may encounter.

Feel free to PM me.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I see - is this something that happens often or that is accommodated in law firms? Is it likely that a magic circle firm would take me again later down the line if I was looking to transfer as a qualified lawyer?

I haven't started the onboarding process for the course yet, and the BPP terms and conditions are that you can cancel up to four weeks before the starting date, though I'm not sure what the firm itself's conditions are, and I'm a bit afraid to ask in case it reflects badly on me later on if I do go with the TC.

I may not even get offered a place on this foreign law degree anyway and then my decision is made, but as it stands I'm a bit concerned at not being sure about it even right before going to interviews for it, and so I'm leaning back towards starting the conversion in September as planned and doing the TC.

Thanks in advance for your help and replies!

Foreign qualified lawyers do come to the U.K. to work, most typically via the firm they work for in the jurisdiction they are qualified in. If you wanted to work for a MC firm in the U.K., then you’d really need to secure a role in a MC or equivalent firm in the country you are looking to work and live in and do similar work to what the MC firms do.

It is most likely the training contract opportunity in the U.K. will give you far more flexibility of where you can work in the future than the vast majority of other jurisdictions though. So I think you have to weigh up what is important to you now - the short term (although actually still 4+ years) of where you want to live and work/study, or the trade off for the longer term career opportunities.

 

[emma.l.shaw]

Foreign qualified lawyers do come to the U.K. to work, most typically via the firm they work for in the jurisdiction they are qualified in. If you wanted to work for a MC firm in the U.K., then you’d really need to secure a role in a MC or equivalent firm in the country you are looking to work and live in and do similar work to what the MC firms do.

It is most likely the training contract opportunity in the U.K. will give you far more flexibility of where you can work in the future than the vast majority of other jurisdictions though. So I think you have to weigh up what is important to you now - the short term (although actually still 4+ years) of where you want to live and work/study, or the trade off for the longer term career opportunities.

I see - with that in mind and other personal considerations I think I’m leaning more towards the training contract route, and it IS something I worked so hard for for so many years to get. Thanks for your help!!

 

[Solmyers]

Hi,

Does anyone have any idea of how Trainee solicitors can demonstrate commercial awareness in their day-to-day role. What sort of response could you give to a question asking 'How would you exhibit commercial awareness as a Trainee solicitor?'

Thanks

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi,

Does anyone have any idea of how Trainee solicitors can demonstrate commercial awareness in their day-to-day role. What sort of response could you give to a question asking 'How would you exhibit commercial awareness as a Trainee solicitor?'

Thanks

This article may be helpful in understanding the importance of commercial awareness for lawyers: https://www.thelawyerportal.com/commercial-awareness/

 

[sunshine101]

Hi,

Does anyone think it would be worthwhile applying to Sidley Austin despite not meeting the A-Level requirements?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi,

Does anyone think it would be worthwhile applying to Sidley Austin despite not meeting the A-Level requirements?

Given this wording from their website, I would say only if you have mitigating circumstances or think you be flagged significantly in a contextualised recruitment process

 

[AB]

Hi Jess,

I hope all is well!

A quick question - is being a little socially awkward / very self-critical absolutely detrimental to your chances of being offered a tc spot after a vac scheme? Are you truly being assessed during every second of the scheme ( even in the grad rec presentation talks) (even when the firms suggests you're only being assessed on assessments) ?

I recently completed a vac scheme with a firm I LOVE and I felt like I enjoyed myself and was significantly more comfortable at the firm than at another firm I did a vac scheme with. But I worry I came across as too socially awkward/ insecure.

I saw a Linkedin post from someone with a great academic profile who was rejected for being 'too self-critical,' and at first, I thought it was a US firm, that rejects people for any reason, but it was a firm which I would argue takes similar trainees to the firm I did my vac scheme at.

I know I am a lot less self-critical/socially awkward in the legal working environment, having worked in the legal industry ( and was out of the blue told by a partner on the scheme, that I come across as very confident during a coffee chat), but I think the competitive nature of the vac scheme and knowing everyone's academic profile is significantly better than mine ( did I just get in on diversity) / I am the oldest in the room made me come across as insecure/socially awkward at times.

I don't even know how to realistically fix being insecure/self-critical/socially awkward.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jess,

I hope all is well!

A quick question - is being a little socially awkward / very self-critical absolutely detrimental to your chances of being offered a tc spot after a vac scheme? Are you truly being assessed during every second of the scheme ( even in the grad rec presentation talks) (even when the firms suggests you're only being assessed on assessments) ?

I recently completed a vac scheme with a firm I LOVE and I felt like I enjoyed myself and was significantly more comfortable at the firm than at another firm I did a vac scheme with. But I worry I came across as too socially awkward/ insecure.

I saw a Linkedin post from someone with a great academic profile who was rejected for being 'too self-critical,' and at first, I thought it was a US firm, that rejects people for any reason, but it was a firm which I would argue takes similar trainees to the firm I did my vac scheme at.

I know I am a lot less self-critical/socially awkward in the legal working environment, having worked in the legal industry ( and was out of the blue told by a partner on the scheme, that I come across as very confident during a coffee chat), but I think the competitive nature of the vac scheme and knowing everyone's academic profile is significantly better than mine ( did I just get in on diversity) / I am the oldest in the room made me come across as insecure/socially awkward at times.

I don't even know how to realistically fix being insecure/self-critical/socially awkward.

You are not assessed every second - that is not possible. But at the same time how engaged you are in the scheme will be picked up from time to time from different people and that does count.

Your post demonstrates your self criticism though and your ability to assume the worst. You don’t even recognise your strengths without putting it in a negative mindset (comfortable but worried, less-critical because you have worked in the sector and given feedback that you were confident, but surely everyone is better than me due to their academics and age).

I know it’s an anxious time when you are waiting for an outcome but you are just trying to find a fault and that’s not healthy. Balance is important - force yourself to only consider what went well on the scheme with no negative “buts” or at worst, for every negative thought you have, counteract it with a positive thought of what went well.

If you only assume the negative and can’t recognise the positive, you’ll hamper your own career as a trainee. As important as it is to know your weaknesses and where you need to develop, it’s just as important to know how to leverage your strengths, especially in a high pressured environment like law.

 

[Rebeccal]

Hi Jessica,

I'm a career changing (current secondary science teacher). 1st Class STEM degree, amazing A Levels, care leaver. I feel like I tick boxes but I'm finding it impossible to get anywhere beyond the application stage.

I can't do vacation schemes because I can't just leave work for 1/2 weeks. Schools do not even let you have time off for routine appointments. All webinars/open days are in term time. I don't have any legal experience.

What can I do to stand out. I applied to a few firms and nothing. I've now reached out to contacts of contacts to get more of an insight. One of them is a partner of a big law firm in the patents team (my ideal area). They said they wish they got science graduates through the door in a training contract but they very rarely get and that I would be accepted in a heart beat by any patents team. I'm so confused because I am a science graduate, but I can't get a foot in the door.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I'm a career changing (current secondary science teacher). 1st Class STEM degree, amazing A Levels, care leaver. I feel like I tick boxes but I'm finding it impossible to get anywhere beyond the application stage.

I can't do vacation schemes because I can't just leave work for 1/2 weeks. Schools do not even let you have time off for routine appointments. All webinars/open days are in term time. I don't have any legal experience.

What can I do to stand out. I applied to a few firms and nothing. I've now reached out to contacts of contacts to get more of an insight. One of them is a partner of a big law firm in the patents team (my ideal area). They said they wish they got science graduates through the door in a training contract but they very rarely get and that I would be accepted in a heart beat by any patents team. I'm so confused because I am a science graduate, but I can't get a foot in the door.

The thing I would stress is that firms are not recruiting for individual teams like the patents team, they are recruiting across the firm and so they are looking for a slightly more varied skill set and motivations that just one patent lawyer will be looking for in their team.

I suspect it is going to come down to how you are writing applications whether that be motivational content, evidencing your skills, or just general structure/tone etc. You have the relevant academics and for a career changer undoubtedly have transferable skills, so I it’s more about how your applications are presented rather than the evidence you have.

I would recommend Forage virtual work experience programmes as they can be done in your own time. There will also be some evening seminars/webinars put on by firms starting between 5-6pm so they may be things to keep an eye out for too.

Are vacation schemes in the summer holidays not a possibility given the summer break from school?

 

[fta2024]

Hi Jessica,

I wanted to ask if a bad WG score would tank an application? I got ranked in the 30-40th percentile and didn’t think I did that badly on the test (clearly I could be wrong…)

What are these typically benchmarked against?

Thanks!