Ask A Graduate Recruiter Anything!

[Jessica Booker]

Ok thanks Jessica!

You should obviously reference the scenario but I just don’t think the scenario needs detail/explaining as you are focusing on your motivations looking forward (rather than looking back).

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

Norton Rose Fulbright's application form this year consists of a cover letter and also this question:

Please use this section to provide additional information about yourself and/or your experience that is relevant to this application, i.e. extenuating/mitigating circumstances. (100 words max)*

If I do not have any ECs should I still use this space to add to my cover letter? Or would it be enough to put N/A if I feel I have included everything?

Thanks.

No - don’t use it for anything that should be explained in the cover letter just because you ran out of space/word count.

That section should only be used if you need to explain something - ie, there are circumstances that won’t necessarily be clear from the information on your application form and that are necessary to explain.

 

[PSM]

You should obviously reference the scenario but I just don’t think the scenario needs detail/explaining as you are focusing on your motivations looking forward (rather than looking back).

Yeah I get what you mean now, I have redrafted my answer to change how I reference any scenarios in a way that looks forward. Very useful, thanks!

 

[Laura T]

Hi there, I am just wondering how important extracurriculars are. I am a Dutch national, just graduated cum laude in Political Science from a university in Rome (took 5 'law' classes), but do not have any noteworthy extracurriculars. For example, within my university there were not many associations to join, and even if I had wanted to join one, it would have been extremely hard being a foreigner who doesn't speak the language fluently (my degree was completely in English but the majority of degrees offered are in Italian, and unfortunately, the level of English is quite poor. Just for information, I was the only international student in my class). Furthermore, I simply did not have a lot of spare time because I had to find a job in order to pay for my living expenses. The problem is that I don't think this is very noteworthy; I worked at a clothing store, simply helping customers.

I am currently an intern at a small international law firm here in Rome, so I definitely want to emphasize this since it's quite difficult to find some type of work experience as a non-law graduate in Italy (or the Netherlands for that matter). I am just afraid that is won't be enough.

Thanks

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi there, I am just wondering how important extracurriculars are. I am a Dutch national, just graduated cum laude in Political Science from a university in Rome (took 5 'law' classes), but do not have any noteworthy extracurriculars. For example, within my university there were not many associations to join, and even if I had wanted to join one, it would have been extremely hard being a foreigner who doesn't speak the language fluently (my degree was completely in English but the majority of degrees offered are in Italian, and unfortunately, the level of English is quite poor. Just for information, I was the only international student in my class). Furthermore, I simply did not have a lot of spare time because I had to find a job in order to pay for my living expenses. The problem is that I don't think this is very noteworthy; I worked at a clothing store, simply helping customers.

I am currently an intern at a small international law firm here in Rome, so I definitely want to emphasize this since it's quite difficult to find some type of work experience as a non-law graduate in Italy (or the Netherlands for that matter). I am just afraid that is won't be enough.

Thanks

You are underestimating the worth of the retail job.

The reason why law firms like extra curriculars is purely down to they like to see candidates who keep themselves busy and occupied. This shows they can manage their time effectively. Vast majority of students are people who have a lot of time on their hands especially when compared to people who are working in law firms - so finding people who have kept themselves busy, gone out of their comfort zone, taken on responsibility are all things that provide some form of confidence that they will be able to adapt to working in a law firm well.

A retail job is likely to develop the same kind of skills and attributes as some extra curriculars - don’t under sell it.

 

[nisadee]

Does Pinsent Masons look at applications on a rolling basis?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Does Pinsent Masons look at applications on a rolling basis?

Unfortunately I don’t know specifics of application deadlines/recruitment policies.

Their policy a few years ago was not to recruit on a rolling basis though

https://twitter.com/pmgrads/status/719818711121715200?s=21

 

[Laura T]

You are underestimating the worth of the retail job.

The reason why law firms like extra curriculars is purely down to they like to see candidates who keep themselves busy and occupied. This shows they can manage their time effectively. Vast majority of students are people who have a lot of time on their hands especially when compared to people who are working in law firms - so finding people who have kept themselves busy, gone out of their comfort zone, taken on responsibility are all things that provide some form of confidence that they will be able to adapt to working in a law firm well.

A retail job is likely to develop the same kind of skills and attributes as some extra curriculars - don’t under sell it.

Thank you for the advice! It has reassured me a little

 

[Newborntrainee]

Hi Jessica! Apologies for asking a very specific question but I hope it does help others in the same situation.
How do you think a paralegal can best reflect his/her skills in the application process? And how much do you think paralegal experience is valued for a TC?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica! Apologies for asking a very specific question but I hope it does help others in the same situation.
How do you think a paralegal can best reflect his/her skills in the application process? And how much do you think paralegal experience is valued for a TC?

Thanks a lot!

it’s really difficult to answer these questions, particularly the latter.

In most cases paralegal experience is valued like any other work experience. Some firms will value it more, others less so - it really depends on the firm and their attitude of converting paralegals into trainees.

Personally though, I don’t think it is any different to any other work experience. However, it does depend on what you did as a paralegal - the paralegal job title encompasses a very wide range of jobs, responsibilities and complexities of work. But the same could be said for other similar jobs that hold a different job title.

Given that, I don’t think the approach of a paralegal is any different to any other applicant. You need to focus on your individual skill set - that won’t be the same as every other paralegal out there, just as much as it won’t be to any other applicant.

 

[alisonnnn]

Hey Jessica, first of all thanks a bunch for all the advice you've given us! We really appreciate it.

1) Just wanted to ask if it would be a good idea to include in my Why Commercial Law section of a cover letter; why not consultancy/investment banking (having attended open days), and what pushed me towards commercial law (law modules/open days/first-year insight scheme).

2) When talking about 'Why x firm', what reasons would you generally regard as good reasons? Things like; level of training/practice areas/deals/culture/particular people you've spoken to.

3) In the 'Why Me' part of the cover letter, it seems like you have to 'elevator pitch' as well? or does one have to answer in a different way?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey Jessica, first of all thanks a bunch for all the advice you've given us! We really appreciate it.

1) Just wanted to ask if it would be a good idea to include in my Why Commercial Law section of a cover letter; why not consultancy/investment banking (having attended open days), and what pushed me towards commercial law (law modules/open days/first-year insight scheme).

2) When talking about 'Why x firm', what reasons would you generally regard as good reasons? Things like; level of training/practice areas/deals/culture/particular people you've spoken to.

3) In the 'Why Me' part of the cover letter, it seems like you have to 'elevator pitch' as well? or does one have to answer in a different way?

There is not one way to approach these parts - trying to fit specifically into a very precise mould of answer is where most people go wrong.

1) if all of your experience is in Banking / Consulting, then yes it’s probably worthwhile addressing why you have chosen law instead. But going into detail as so why you don’t want those other careers is typically not a good move. One it moves the tone of your letter to negative (never great) and often the things people say they don’t want from a career can also apply to law, so you have to tread very carefully.

Unless you think your CV/application is looking a little bare, I personally would advise against listing banking/consultancy open days on your applications for law firms, but just briefly mention it in a cover letter “Having attended careers events for other professional services sectors, I consider working in law...” (you’ll word it better than that though).

2) genuine reasons as to why you are picking that firm - it doesn’t matter what they are really (excluding money)

3) An elevator pitch is something to do in person - ie when you are speaking, and most likely at an interview stage. It is also your opening gambit. So I am not convinced it should be used as an approach for a cover letter.

The “why me” section should consider the following factors though:

- be more forward looking rather than relying on pulling on past experiences
- not repeat detail elsewhere in your application
- ensure you have covered off any questions around your motivations (and therefore you suitability) for the day job and the career (if not covered elsewhere)

 

[gricole]

Hi Jessica,

1) When applying to firms with a cover letter, I always try to address it to a specific person, either the Training Principal or the GR Manager. However, some firms such as White & Case and Covington explicitly state in their FAQ section - please address the the covering letter to the Graduate Recruitment Team. What do I do in situations like this one?

2) For firms which require a CV should you have a skills section or just a factual CV indicating what you did in your various work experiences and extra-curriculars?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

1) When applying to firms with a cover letter, I always try to address it to a specific person, either the Training Principal or the GR Manager. However, some firms such as White & Case and Covington explicitly state in their FAQ section - please address the the covering letter to the Graduate Recruitment Team. What do I do in situations like this one?

2) For firms which require a CV should you have a skills section or just a factual CV indicating what you did in your various work experiences and extra-curriculars?

1) follow what the firm says - always

2) I’m not a big fan of skills based CVs - always tricker for the reader to work out what you have done, when and in which order.

If your skills section is just repeating unnecessary detail from other sections then it is unnecessary

Sometimes skill sections can work but they shouldn’t be descriptive and typically need to focus on factual pieces of info rather than speculated soft skills. Ie:

- knowledge of software
- language skills
- certificates useful in the work place (eg my CV has a skills section that states I have my psychometric testing qualifications and a NARIC certificate)

it’s not the place to say you have great team working skills or strong communication skills etc (there’s not a place for that at all on a CV)

 

[gricole]

1) follow what the firm says - always

2) I’m not a big fan of skills based CVs - always tricker for the reader to work out what you have done, when and in which order.

If your skills section is just repeating unnecessary detail from other sections then it is unnecessary

Sometimes skill sections can work but they shouldn’t be descriptive and typically need to focus on factual pieces of info rather than speculated soft skills. Ie:

- knowledge of software
- language skills
- certificates useful in the work place (eg my CV has a skills section that states I have my psychometric testing qualifications and a NARIC certificate)

it’s not the place to say you have great team working skills or strong communication skills etc (there’s not a place for that at all on a CV)

Thank you Jessica. I asked the first question since I was given advice by the firm to address it to a specific person, but then saw the FAQ section - this left me confused. Thank you for clarifying the second point.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you Jessica. I asked the first question since I was given advice by the firm to address it to a specific person, but then saw the FAQ section - this left me confused. Thank you for clarifying the second point.

Then go with what the individual/firm said to you rather than what is on their website

 

[alisonnnn]

Fantastic!! Thanks a lot for the advice Jessica I really appreciate it!

There is not one way to approach these parts - trying to fit specifically into a very precise mould of answer is where most people go wrong.

1) if all of your experience is in Banking / Consulting, then yes it’s probably worthwhile addressing why you have chosen law instead. But going into detail as so why you don’t want those other careers is typically not a good move. One it moves the tone of your letter to negative (never great) and often the things people say they don’t want from a career can also apply to law, so you have to tread very carefully.

Unless you think your CV/application is looking a little bare, I personally would advise against listing banking/consultancy open days on your applications for law firms, but just briefly mention it in a cover letter “Having attended careers events for other professional services sectors, I consider working in law...” (you’ll word it better than that though).

2) genuine reasons as to why you are picking that firm - it doesn’t matter what they are really (excluding money)

3) An elevator pitch is something to do in person - ie when you are speaking, and most likely at an interview stage. It is also your opening gambit. So I am not convinced it should be used as an approach for a cover letter.

The “why me” section should consider the following factors though:

- be more forward looking rather than relying on pulling on past experiences
- not repeat detail elsewhere in your application
- ensure you have covered off any questions around your motivations (and therefore you suitability) for the day job and the career (if not covered elsewhere)

 

[ruby1]

Hi Jessica,

I was wondering if/how I should include experience from other law firms in my application for a different (X) firm? The reason being is I have involved myself in a couple of firms and want to be able to show the skills I have developed during these experiences - but how they fit in X firm I am applying for... how can I get this across well without dwelling too much on the other firms?

Thank you!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I was wondering if/how I should include experience from other law firms in my application for a different (X) firm? The reason being is I have involved myself in a couple of firms and want to be able to show the skills I have developed during these experiences - but how they fit in X firm I am applying for... how can I get this across well without dwelling too much on the other firms?

Thank you!

You should definitely include it.

I think you are over thinking it - you don’t have to try and “fit it in” to the firm you are applying to. You just need to explain what you did or what you got out of it.

 

[ruby1]

Okay great.
Thank you for the advice Jessica! I'll keep that in mind.