2020-21 Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion

[ChuPnl]

Hi, this might sound a bit ridiculous to some of you but I have an irrational fear of networking - let alone online networking (hello ghosting...).

I’d love to hear about people’s advice on how they contact trainees and future trainees at firms of their interest to ask them a few questions? (Especially on LinkedIn).

I’m thinking of getting in touch with one or two future trainees at a firm I’ve got a VS coming up but I don’t really know how to approach them..
I’d like to ask them question about how they found their own virtual vac scheme and what their overall experience with the firm has been so far (contact with the firm before their TC start, have they been able to get involved with anything ahead of starting etc...) but don’t want to sound like I’m asking a favour or how to pass the VS - I’m nervous they might ghost me and never reply or worse, tell the HR about my behaviour in case they don’t appreciate it.

Finally, I don’t want to only take and not be able to give anything back (I’m not really in the position to bring any added value to them) which makes me feel uncomfortable...

Any advice?

 

[Anon 11031]

Hi, this might sound a bit ridiculous to some of you but I have an irrational fear of networking - let alone online networking (hello ghosting...).

I’d love to hear about people’s advice on how they contact trainees and future trainees at firms of their interest to ask them a few questions? (Especially on LinkedIn).

I’m thinking of getting in touch with one or two future trainees at a firm I’ve got a VS coming up but I don’t really know how to approach them..
I’d like to ask them question about how they found their own virtual vac scheme and what their overall experience with the firm has been so far (contact with the firm before their TC start, have they been able to get involved with anything ahead of starting etc...) but don’t want to sound like I’m asking a favour or how to pass the VS - I’m nervous they might ghost me and never reply or worse, tell the HR about my behaviour in case they don’t appreciate it.

Finally, I don’t want to only take and not be able to give anything back (I’m not really in the position to bring any added value to them) which makes me feel uncomfortable...

Any advice?

Hello! I don't think that being afraid of networking is at all silly! Depending on experience outside of university and in jobs, networking can feel pretty unnatural to some people - I've almost always found it awkward but as my confidence has grown so has my ability to ask people for help!

If you want to get in touch with people at your VS scheme firm, I'd just politely reach out. Say hello, introduce yourself and explain why you're asking them questions. Trainees are often (or so I've heard) asked to promote the firm and engage with people looking to join. Just sign off politely and thank them for absolutely any advice/time they give you.

I've found that lots of trainees have actively given me tips on interviews etc!

Just be confident and if someone ignores you, don't take it personally - they're just more than likely busy!

 

[M1999]

I can't see why they wouldn't - I'm not sure I've come across a firm that bans you from applying just because you've not quite cut it at the final stage. They can't take everyone from the AC, and it's not like they've seen you over the 2 weeks of a VS. They probably have an official policy but it makes good sense for them to reconsider someone they've liked enough to interview, one year on. Maybe, if you don't get through the AC, the feedback they give might give you an idea of how far wide of the mark you were? But I'm only making a wild guess. Good for you for thinking ahead and going for the resilient option.

Macfarlanes stops you from reapplying if you made it to the AC and were unsuccessful, at least for 3 years.

 

[whisperingrock]

I can't see why they wouldn't - I'm not sure I've come across a firm that bans you from applying just because you've not quite cut it at the final stage. They can't take everyone from the AC, and it's not like they've seen you over the 2 weeks of a VS. They probably have an official policy but it makes good sense for them to reconsider someone they've liked enough to interview, one year on. Maybe, if you don't get through the AC, the feedback they give might give you an idea of how far wide of the mark you were? But I'm only making a wild guess. Good for you for thinking ahead and going for the resilient option.

There are definitely firms that tell you to wait a few years before reapplying if you fail at AC, and some that say you should not reapply at all.

 

[ChuPnl]

Hello! I don't think that being afraid of networking is at all silly! Depending on experience outside of university and in jobs, networking can feel pretty unnatural to some people - I've almost always found it awkward but as my confidence has grown so has my ability to ask people for help!

If you want to get in touch with people at your VS scheme firm, I'd just politely reach out. Say hello, introduce yourself and explain why you're asking them questions. Trainees are often (or so I've heard) asked to promote the firm and engage with people looking to join. Just sign off politely and thank them for absolutely any advice/time they give you.

I've found that lots of trainees have actively given me tips on interviews etc!

Just be confident and if someone ignores you, don't take it personally - they're just more than likely busy!

Thank you so much for this! Just hearing someone normalising it makes me genuinely happy (it is a big struggle of mine).

Would you advise to simply start off with a polite introduction (eg. saying you are undertaking a VS with their firm this year) and asking if they would mind sharing what their experience with the firm has been so far and potentially answer a few questions? (so they don’t feel bombed with questions immediately).

I just want to confirm I’ve understood your approach clearly as I don’t want to mess anything up.
Thank you so much again!

 

[Anon 11031]

Thank you so much for this! Just hearing someone normalising it makes me genuinely happy (it is a big struggle of mine).

Would you advise to simply start off with a polite introduction (eg. saying you are undertaking a VS with their firm this year) and asking if they would mind sharing what their experience with the firm has been so far and potentially answer a few questions? (so they don’t feel bombed with questions immediately).

I just want to confirm I’ve understood your approach clearly as I don’t want to mess anything up.
Thank you so much again!

No problem at all. I think sometimes we put an extreme amount of pressure on ourselves to be seasoned networkers when the reality is it really does take a while to be comfortable approaching strangers!

Yeah, absolutely. I'd probably introduce yourself and say you have a VS scheme coming up which you're excited about. Ask if they mind you asking a couple of questions about their experiences and what to expect. If they say yes, which they do 9/10, just start asking your questions. I recently approached a trainee at a firm regarding her experience (and an application form) and she must have spent about an hour helping me. Another trainee send me loads of voice notes with tips on an upcoming VI! It's just important to say thank you I'd say!

No problem. If you ever want to pm me anything, just send it over. ☺️

 

[hopefullawyer123]

How long after an AC should you send a follow up email if you haven’t heard back yet? The firm said 7-10 days but it’s now been 12 days

 

[ChuPnl]

No problem at all. I think sometimes we put an extreme amount of pressure on ourselves to be seasoned networkers when the reality is it really does take a while to be comfortable approaching strangers!

Yeah, absolutely. I'd probably introduce yourself and say you have a VS scheme coming up which you're excited about. Ask if they mind you asking a couple of questions about their experiences and what to expect. If they say yes, which they do 9/10, just start asking your questions. I recently approached a trainee at a firm regarding her experience (and the application form) and she must have spent about an hour helping me. Another trainee send me loads of voice notes with tips on an upcoming VI! It's just important to say thank you I'd say!

No problem. If you ever want to pm me anything, just send it over. ☺️

Thank you again!

You have helped me more than you can imagine 😊

 

[Velikilawyer123]

Interesting, it says 70-80% here, but I guess these things are never set in stone! https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/bryan-cave-leighton-paisner/true-picture/27/1##bonus

Yeah exactly what I was referring to as well! Interesting that it disagrees with what grad rec said.

 

[Gargi Pandit]

Has anyone heard from Mayer Brown post AC?

Nope haven’t! When was yours ?

 

[Lastseasonwonder]

I attended an open day thing with their grad rec. she said about 50/50

When was this open day, if you are happy to share?

 

[OEO]

When was this open day, if you are happy to share?

It was yday, a uni had a trainee and grad rec Q&A panel. So not an official BCLP open day. I’m just quoting what I heard , but I’m sure it changes as and when they see fit

 

[Dheepa]

Hi, this might sound a bit ridiculous to some of you but I have an irrational fear of networking - let alone online networking (hello ghosting...).

I’d love to hear about people’s advice on how they contact trainees and future trainees at firms of their interest to ask them a few questions? (Especially on LinkedIn).

I’m thinking of getting in touch with one or two future trainees at a firm I’ve got a VS coming up but I don’t really know how to approach them..
I’d like to ask them question about how they found their own virtual vac scheme and what their overall experience with the firm has been so far (contact with the firm before their TC start, have they been able to get involved with anything ahead of starting etc...) but don’t want to sound like I’m asking a favour or how to pass the VS - I’m nervous they might ghost me and never reply or worse, tell the HR about my behaviour in case they don’t appreciate it.

Finally, I don’t want to only take and not be able to give anything back (I’m not really in the position to bring any added value to them) which makes me feel uncomfortable...

Any advice?

Just thought I’d add some perspective as someone who receives these kind of messages all the time now.

I’d absolutely follow @lawnoodle approach of asking if they’d be comfortable answering some questions first. It might also be helpful to say something like “I know you must be busy so please feel free to respond if and when you do have the time.” I genuinely feel terrible when I don’t have the time to respond to people and I imagine a lot of other trainees/future trainees feel the same way too. The flip side to this is that if they do ghost (I have been guilty of doing this myself) it’s really not personal at all and don’t hold it against them.

I’d also recommend being as specific as possible about the questions you ask. For example, it’s much easier for me to give someone advice on something like “How do I prepare for the conversion interview?” vs someone who asks something really broad like “What was your experience with the firm like?”. Especially with the latter question, I personally wouldn’t even know where to start and would be more inclined to give generic advice rather than specific advice that would be more helpful for the candidate.

I’ve also had people ghost me after I’ve given them paragraphs of advice and trust me when I say it’s not a good look. So just be sure to thank anyone who you do get a response from!

 

[Jacob Miller]

Hi, this might sound a bit ridiculous to some of you but I have an irrational fear of networking - let alone online networking (hello ghosting...).

I’d love to hear about people’s advice on how they contact trainees and future trainees at firms of their interest to ask them a few questions? (Especially on LinkedIn).

I’m thinking of getting in touch with one or two future trainees at a firm I’ve got a VS coming up but I don’t really know how to approach them..
I’d like to ask them question about how they found their own virtual vac scheme and what their overall experience with the firm has been so far (contact with the firm before their TC start, have they been able to get involved with anything ahead of starting etc...) but don’t want to sound like I’m asking a favour or how to pass the VS - I’m nervous they might ghost me and never reply or worse, tell the HR about my behaviour in case they don’t appreciate it.

Finally, I don’t want to only take and not be able to give anything back (I’m not really in the position to bring any added value to them) which makes me feel uncomfortable...

Any advice?

Hey!

This is very normal and contacting people unsolicited can be very intimidating. In my experience, future trainees/ trainees etc are overwhelmingly happy to help you where they can. It's one of those things that gets easier with practice and experience, my honest advice would just be to push yourself through that initial pain threshold and jump in if you at all can.

I also recently jotted down a few thoughts on some basic Dos and Don'ts when sending an 'approach' message like this - you can check those out here.

Hope this helps!

 

[Alison C]

Macfarlanes stops you from reapplying if you made it to the AC and were unsuccessful, at least for 3 years.

Rough - but a clear policy.

There are definitely firms that tell you to wait a few years before reapplying if you fail at AC, and some that say you should not reapply at all.

Again, a clear policy.

I know it's really early to be thinking about this but does anyone know if Ropes & Gray let you reapply for a vacation scheme the next year if you were unsuccessful after their AC?

Probably easiest to just ask them. It will be something they have a policy on. And hey, if they don't want you, you don't want them. Let us know?

 

[LegalLordLox]

Wanted to find out what people prefer using Financial times or The Economist. I am finding that the student financial times is good but yet still restrictive - as it shows you the majority of the news articles, however, does not allow full access to all of the articles. Any other suggestions other than the usual BBC news, CNN, Bloomberg, general browsing of firms and news.

 

[ChuPnl]

Just thought I’d add some perspective as someone who receives these kind of messages all the time now.

I’d absolutely follow @lawnoodle approach of asking if they’d be comfortable answering some questions first. It might also be helpful to say something like “I know you must be busy so please feel free to respond if and when you do have the time.” I genuinely feel terrible when I don’t have the time to respond to people and I imagine a lot of other trainees/future trainees feel the same way too. The flip side to this is that if they do ghost (I have been guilty of doing this myself) it’s really not personal at all and don’t hold it against them.

I’d also recommend being as specific as possible about the questions you ask. For example, it’s much easier for me to give someone advice on something like “How do I prepare for the conversion interview?” vs someone who asks something really broad like “What was your experience with the firm like?”. Especially with the latter question, I personally wouldn’t even know where to start and would be more inclined to give generic advice rather than specific advice that would be more helpful for the candidate.

I’ve also had people ghost me after I’ve given them paragraphs of advice and trust me when I say it’s not a good look. So just be sure to thank anyone who you do get a response from!

Hey!

This is very normal and contacting people unsolicited can be very intimidating. In my experience, future trainees/ trainees etc are overwhelmingly happy to help you where they can. It's one of those things that gets easier with practice and experience, my honest advice would just be to push yourself through that initial pain threshold and jump in if you at all can.

I also recently jotted down a few thoughts on some basic Dos and Don'ts when sending an 'approach' message like this - you can check those out here.

Hope this helps!

Thank you very much!
I will make sure to apply your advice

 

[Anon 11031]

Wanted to find out what people prefer using Financial times or The Economist. I am finding that the student financial times is good but yet still restrictive - as it shows you the majority of the news articles, however, does not allow full access to all of the articles. Any other suggestions other than the usual BBC news, CNN, Bloomberg, general browsing of firms and news.

Student FT? My university pays for a full subscription to the FT I believe. I didn't know there were different levels.

Also, if you don't already listen to it I'd recommend the FT news briefing on Spotify - I always start my morning with it and find it's really useful!

 

[jan28]

Orrick invite to WG (which I am absolutely terrible at but we pray and we move!!)

 

[Kablahc]

The firm that cancelled my VS last year just re-offered it to me?!?! What is this week