Which firms should I apply to for a vac scheme?

[Deleted member 2707]

Hi all, I have a question regarding where I should apply for a vac scheme. My results from my first year weren't amazing- with a low 2.1 average and a 61% in contract. I am sure I am able to boost my overall result in year 2 by working harder and having now understood how to answer law questions. However, due to my low first year result, I was wondering which firms are less picky with grades and which firms I could have a chance of securing a vac scheme with?

Some of the firms I am interested in are Clifford Chance, Hogan Lovells, Norton Rose Fullbright, Simmons&Simmons, DLA Piper and Baker Mckenzie.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi all, I have a question regarding where I should apply for a vac scheme. My results from my first year weren't amazing- with a low 2.1 average and a 61% in contract. I am sure I am able to boost my overall result in year 2 by working harder and having now understood how to answer law questions. However, due to my low first year result, I was wondering which firms are less picky with grades and which firms I could have a chance of securing a vac scheme with?

Some of the firms I am interested in are Clifford Chance, Hogan Lovells, Norton Rose Fullbright, Simmons&Simmons, DLA Piper and Baker Mckenzie.

It’s going to depend on how strong the rest of your application is. What’s your ECs, WE and motivation for these type of law firms like?

 

[Deleted member 2707]

It’s going to depend on how strong the rest of your application is. What’s your ECs, WE and motivation for these type of law firms like?

ECs wise I think I am a bit sparse for first year as I focused a lot on 'relaxing' and 'enjoying uni life' and took it a bit too far to be honest. However, I am trying to make up for it by doing internships during the summer and have so far done one and am in the midst of doing one right now. They are both pretty big firms in my home country so I hope this will score me some points. I am also a bit confused as to whether to include my high school ECs. Whilst from high school, I feel they accurate represent my interests and me as a person but I am aware that high school is quite far back so I'm not sure if to include them. Thank you for your help!

 

[Jessica Booker]

ECs wise I think I am a bit sparse for first year as I focused a lot on 'relaxing' and 'enjoying uni life' and took it a bit too far to be honest. However, I am trying to make up for it by doing internships during the summer and have so far done one and am in the midst of doing one right now. They are both pretty big firms in my home country so I hope this will score me some points. I am also a bit confused as to whether to include my high school ECs. Whilst from high school, I feel they accurate represent my interests and me as a person but I am aware that high school is quite far back so I'm not sure if to include them. Thank you for your help!

Some high school ECs are fine - just focus on the most important/appropriate ones that developed your skill set the most rather than just listing them all.

You EU or non-EU?

 

[Deleted member 2707]

Some high school ECs are fine - just focus on the most important/appropriate ones that developed your skill set the most rather than just listing them all.

You EU or non-EU?

Non-EU- is this something I should flag in my application?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Non-EU- is this something I should flag in my application?

You will be asked anyway, and it will be obvious from other parts of your application.

It will be tricky. Play to your strengths though - for instance your work experience and language skills. Think about which firms might be more receptive to those than your academics. I’d also get started on some ECs when you return to uni too.

 

[Deleted member 2707]

You will be asked anyway, and it will be obvious from other parts of your application.

It will be tricky. Play to your strengths though - for instance your work experience and language skills. Think about which firms might be more receptive to those than your academics. I’d also get started on some ECs when you return to uni too.

Yes I am planning to find out which firms are more receptive to those. Do you have any suggestions? I currently have a position line up at a law society and am planning to join more societies upon my return.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Yes I am planning to find out which firms are more receptive to those. Do you have any suggestions? I currently have a position line up at a law society and am planning to join more societies upon my return.

I can’t answer that without knowing more about you, but even then I won’t be an expert on which firms will be recruiting people with a mindset of particular experiences or skill set. This is where networking both online and on campus is going to be vital to you.

Joining societies doesn’t really count - you have to have responsibilities within them (eg be on Exec committees, be involved in planning events with them etc) that will be important to demonstrate. Anyone can be a member of a club/society and not actually contribute anything to it, so it means very little to join something alone.

 

[Deleted member 2707]

Thank you so much! I definitely will be attending law fairs and trying to network with the firms I'm interested in. As for networking online, I am a bit loss on how to do this. Do you have any tips?

I can’t answer that without knowing more about you, but even then I won’t be an expert on which firms will be recruiting people with a mindset of particular experiences or skill set. This is where networking both online and on campus is going to be vital to you.

Joining societies doesn’t really count - you have to have responsibilities within them (eg be on Exec committees, be involved in planning events with them etc) that will be important to demonstrate. Anyone can be a member of a club/society and not actually contribute anything to it, so it means very little to join something alone.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you so much! I definitely will be attending law fairs and trying to network with the firms I'm interested in. As for networking online, I am a bit loss on how to do this. Do you have any tips?

Careers fairs are a pretty crappy way to network in all honesty just given the volume of people there - it’s best to try and go to firm events (typically at lunch time or in the evening). Still go to the fair as it’s a good way to get basic questions answered quickly, but it won’t really help from a networking perspective.

Other ideas:

Use your university alumni networks

See if your careers service have their own alumni/mentoring programme, and if so utilise it

Find people on LinkedIn who are like you - might have gone to your uni, might have gone to your school, might have worked at the same organisations, might support the same sports team as you, might be part of the same online group as you - find something similar that connects you with them and send a polite email asking for their insight

Use this forum and others like it

 

[James Michael]

Hi Jessica, thank you for all the advice given so far, it's been great.

I'm in a similar position here, however applying for TC's and now winter vacation schemes. Although I received a 2:1 in my first year and on track to graduate with a 2:1, I have been somewhat put off applying for some vacation schemes due to my previous education.

I finished my GCSE's in 2010, where my grades were in all honesty poor for my standards, mostly C's. I was accepted into sixth form however, during my first year suffered with personal circumstances, that affected my AS level grades and as a result ended up leaving, not completing my A-Levels.

I completed a level 3 apprenticeship, and continued to work full time (in project management), at a large organisation - picking up a lot of transferable skills. I decided in 2016 was the right time to re-enter education and completed a foundation year, (receiving a first) that allowed me to transfer to my current institution to study.

I've been fortunate enough in order to have a lot of WE, having picked up the transferable skills before university and have gained more leadership experience as an assistant manager and coach at university for a football team last year.

As a recruiter, although I have this WE, my foundation year and am now on track to graduate with a 2:1, from your experience as a recruiter, would not having the A-levels and very average GCSE's hold me back at all?

I have been unsuccessful so far in my journey of applications, not passing through first stages for TC's I've applied for. However, I am keeping a positive attitude. I am currently looking at applying to A&O, CC, NRF and Hogan Lovells for winter vacation schemes. Do you think I should re-consider the firms I am applying to?

I apologise this may be a long message, but thank you for taking the time to read. I look forward to your response.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica, thank you for all the advice given so far, it's been great.

I'm in a similar position here, however applying for TC's and now winter vacation schemes. Although I received a 2:1 in my first year and on track to graduate with a 2:1, I have been somewhat put off applying for some vacation schemes due to my previous education.

I finished my GCSE's in 2010, where my grades were in all honesty poor for my standards, mostly C's. I was accepted into sixth form however, during my first year suffered with personal circumstances, that affected my AS level grades and as a result ended up leaving, not completing my A-Levels.

I completed a level 3 apprenticeship, and continued to work full time (in project management), at a large organisation - picking up a lot of transferable skills. I decided in 2016 was the right time to re-enter education and completed a foundation year, (receiving a first) that allowed me to transfer to my current institution to study.

I've been fortunate enough in order to have a lot of WE, having picked up the transferable skills before university and have gained more leadership experience as an assistant manager and coach at university for a football team last year.

As a recruiter, although I have this WE, my foundation year and am now on track to graduate with a 2:1, from your experience as a recruiter, would not having the A-levels and very average GCSE's hold me back at all?

I have been unsuccessful so far in my journey of applications, not passing through first stages for TC's I've applied for. However, I am keeping a positive attitude. I am currently looking at applying to A&O, CC, NRF and Hogan Lovells for winter vacation schemes. Do you think I should re-consider the firms I am applying to?

I apologise this may be a long message, but thank you for taking the time to read. I look forward to your response.

Your foundation year will have a UCAS points tariff. As long as it is aligned to the UCAS tariff required for A-levels (if a firm has one), you’ll be fine.

Firms don’t really look at GCSEs so I wouldn’t worry about that.

Explain the ECs on why you didn’t complete your A-levels too.

Make sure you network with the firms you mention on campus this Autumn.

 

[r14n]

Hi all, I have a question regarding where I should apply for a vac scheme. My results from my first year weren't amazing- with a low 2.1 average and a 61% in contract. I am sure I am able to boost my overall result in year 2 by working harder and having now understood how to answer law questions. However, due to my low first year result, I was wondering which firms are less picky with grades and which firms I could have a chance of securing a vac scheme with?

Some of the firms I am interested in are Clifford Chance, Hogan Lovells, Norton Rose Fullbright, Simmons&Simmons, DLA Piper and Baker Mckenzie.

I would say do not worry about your grades for the moment. I was in the same position as you with not the best A Levels but my degree results were quite good. A low 2:1 is respectable and as long as you can portray you are working hard to get that up to an upper 2:1 or first you will be fine.

In terms of the firms from your list, from personal experience apart from Hogan Lovells and Simmons&Simmons, all the others are quite 'picky' but remember the application form has many parts and as long as you can satisfy the other parts you will be in a great position. Ultimately, it is all upon the person looking at the application and from personal experience I can tell you a little story:-

A friend of mine and I were doing the same applications for the same firms in our first year after we carefully picked the 20 that we liked and with strong explanations as to why we chose these firms. The results were quite mixed due to the fact that there were firms that only offered an AC to him, firms that offered AC only to me and firms that offered us both an AC. At the end, he was more successful than myself in terms of applications and AC, albeit, me having the better academic and activities record (he had a respectable CV too). We were both successful within our choice but it shows that by not having the best records it does not necessarily mean you are at a disadvantage because you may well make that up with other skills/traits you may have which will impress recruiters. At the end of the day, they see thousands of these and they pick out the wants that stand out from the rest.

Hope this little anecdote was to some use and good luck for your applications

 

[Josie]

I would say do not worry about your grades for the moment. I was in the same position as you with not the best A Levels but my degree results were quite good. A low 2:1 is respectable and as long as you can portray you are working hard to get that up to an upper 2:1 or first you will be fine.

In terms of the firms from your list, from personal experience apart from Hogan Lovells and Simmons&Simmons, all the others are quite 'picky' but remember the application form has many parts and as long as you can satisfy the other parts you will be in a great position. Ultimately, it is all upon the person looking at the application and from personal experience I can tell you a little story:-

A friend of mine and I were doing the same applications for the same firms in our first year after we carefully picked the 20 that we liked and with strong explanations as to why we chose these firms. The results were quite mixed due to the fact that there were firms that only offered an AC to him, firms that offered AC only to me and firms that offered us both an AC. At the end, he was more successful than myself in terms of applications and AC, albeit, me having the better academic and activities record (he had a respectable CV too). We were both successful within our choice but it shows that by not having the best records it does not necessarily mean you are at a disadvantage because you may well make that up with other skills/traits you may have which will impress recruiters. At the end of the day, they see thousands of these and they pick out the wants that stand out from the rest.

Hope this little anecdote was to some use and good luck for your applications

Hello!

I was wondering if you'd care to share which firms you applied to and which ones you were successful with past application stage? I have ABC at A Level but a high first in my degree so far and quite a lot of work experience. I can't help but worry that my A levels will set me back from the bigger firms like NRF, Simmons & Simmons etc.so reading a reply like yours is really refreshing and gives me a little hope!

 

[Daniel Boden]

Hello!

I was wondering if you'd care to share which firms you applied to and which ones you were successful with past application stage? I have ABC at A Level but a high first in my degree so far and quite a lot of work experience. I can't help but worry that my A levels will set me back from the bigger firms like NRF, Simmons & Simmons etc.so reading a reply like yours is really refreshing and gives me a little hope!

Hey Josie,

I have similar A-levels to you but am on for a solid 2.1 (so you beat me there haha) with excellent legal work experience and I got 3 interviews last year with Macfarlanes, Bird & Bird and Weil Gotshal & Manges (as a penultimate year non-law student in my first cycle) and got a vac scheme with Weil this summer despite my A-levels being below their minimum requirement so tbh I'd contact the firms you want to apply to and mention your circumstances and then see what they say. My work experience and overall application seemed to counteract my lower A-Levels so I'm sure the same will be for you!

EDIT: It's about being sensible as some firms rely heavily on academics and others take a more holistic approach so it's about being selective and recognising which firms would be more receptive to your uni grades and work experience.

 

[Josie]

Hey Josie,

I have similar A-levels to you but am on for a solid 2.1 (so you beat me there haha) with excellent legal work experience and I got 3 interviews last year with Macfarlanes, Bird & Bird and Weil Gotshal & Manges (as a penultimate year non-law student in my first cycle) and got a vac scheme with Weil this summer despite my A-levels being below their minimum requirement so tbh I'd contact the firms you want to apply to and mention your circumstances and then see what they say. My work experience and overall application seemed to counteract my lower A-Levels so I'm sure the same will be for you!

EDIT: It's about being sensible as some firms rely heavily on academics and others take a more holistic approach so it's about being selective and recognising which firms would be more receptive to your uni grades and work experience.

Thank you for your reply! I actually just finished a week of work experience with Weil so I'll bear that in mind

I agree, I think forums like this are really helpful in distinguishing which firms are more reliant on A levels as a decisive factor, particularly by hearing form others in similar situations.

 

[Daniel Boden]

Thank you for your reply! I actually just finished a week of work experience with Weil so I'll bear that in mind

I agree, I think forums like this are really helpful in distinguishing which firms are more reliant on A levels as a decisive factor, particularly by hearing form others in similar situations.

Oh great! I did something similar the year before my vac scheme with them so hopefully that'll bode well for you in this coming cycle

 

[r14n]

Hello!

I was wondering if you'd care to share which firms you applied to and which ones you were successful with past application stage? I have ABC at A Level but a high first in my degree so far and quite a lot of work experience. I can't help but worry that my A levels will set me back from the bigger firms like NRF, Simmons & Simmons etc.so reading a reply like yours is really refreshing and gives me a little hope!

Hey!

Do not worry, your A Levels are fine, I actually have the same results as yours and thus far I have had AC/VS with Macfarlanes, Bird & Bird, Baker McKenzie, Pennington Manches, Pinsent, Mayer Brown, Gateley and A&O. That is over the course of two years so do not feel pressured to apply to a lot of firms and remember, with the success we've all had those not so pleasant emails. I would say go for a selected ten-twelve and nail down the applications with quantity and quality research, your own reasoning for each firm and how passionate you feel with what they do and the approach they are taking for future projects/expansions/trainees.

You have plenty of hope and it is upon you to ensure your applications are convincing to the recruiters.

Good Luck, let me know if you want any more questions answered!

 

[Deleted member 2707]

Hi thank you so much for your response! It really gave me hope about my application. Personally I felt that the low 2.1 was deserving as I really slacked off during my first year. Should this be something I flag up during my interviews? As in that I am capable of so much more and that this year was an anomaly?

I would say do not worry about your grades for the moment. I was in the same position as you with not the best A Levels but my degree results were quite good. A low 2:1 is respectable and as long as you can portray you are working hard to get that up to an upper 2:1 or first you will be fine.

In terms of the firms from your list, from personal experience apart from Hogan Lovells and Simmons&Simmons, all the others are quite 'picky' but remember the application form has many parts and as long as you can satisfy the other parts you will be in a great position. Ultimately, it is all upon the person looking at the application and from personal experience I can tell you a little story:-

A friend of mine and I were doing the same applications for the same firms in our first year after we carefully picked the 20 that we liked and with strong explanations as to why we chose these firms. The results were quite mixed due to the fact that there were firms that only offered an AC to him, firms that offered AC only to me and firms that offered us both an AC. At the end, he was more successful than myself in terms of applications and AC, albeit, me having the better academic and activities record (he had a respectable CV too). We were both successful within our choice but it shows that by not having the best records it does not necessarily mean you are at a disadvantage because you may well make that up with other skills/traits you may have which will impress recruiters. At the end of the day, they see thousands of these and they pick out the wants that stand out from the rest.

Hope this little anecdote was to some use and good luck for your applications [/QUOTE

 

[r14n]

Hi thank you so much for your response! It really gave me hope about my application. Personally I felt that the low 2.1 was deserving as I really slacked off during my first year. Should this be something I flag up during my interviews? As in that I am capable of so much more and that this year was an anomaly?

Whilst you appreciate your efforts and have improved since then, I wouldn't say you slacked off but now making up for it as it may come cross in a negative light, in my opinion. Maybe say something along the lines of the fact that you are not satisfied with your current results and looking to constantly improve to ensure that the end goal of a first class is in sight. However, only mention if/when academic results or achievements are in the topic, don't go out of your way to point it out.