Vacation Scheme tasks

[jmosk99]

@George Maxwell Hi George. I was wondering if you could shed some light on some of the tasks you were responsible for as a vacation schemer at HSF? Curious how different/similar it is to the role of a trainee, and looking to make some connections between that and my past experiences (for my upcoming AC). Cheers!

 

[George Maxwell]

@George Maxwell Hi George. I was wondering if you could shed some light on some of the tasks you were responsible for as a vacation schemer at HSF? Curious how different/similar it is to the role of a trainee, and looking to make some connections between that and my past experiences (for my upcoming AC). Cheers!

Hi @jmosk99,

Welcome to the community!

When I was at HSF, I was given a variety of tasks, in my litigation seat I was asked to summarise, verbally and in writing, an ongoing Supreme Court case at the time to my supervisor (it was slightly terrifying that these summaries were forwarded directly to a Partner!). I had a variety of other tasks in my corporate seat, including completing a first draft of a shareholder irrevocable, producing a research note regarding the EU Taxonomy Regulation, drafting a (mock) piece of advice for a client regarding a 2.8 announcement (from the Takeover Code) and what the consequences for this client would be.

In addition, I had a pretty extensive admin task which included updating slides regarding the various takeover transactions that the firm had been involved with over the past decade or so.

From your post it sounds like you have prior legal experience. If you don't mind me asking, what is your background? Are you a career changer or have you just had some prior legal experience?

 

[jmosk99]

Hi @jmosk99,

Welcome to the community!

When I was at HSF, I was given a variety of tasks, from summarising, in my litigation seat, I was asked to summarise, verbally and in writing, an ongoing Supreme Court case at the time to my supervisor (it was slightly terrifying that these summaries were forwarded directly to a Partner!). I had a variety of other tasks in my corporate seat, including completing a first draft of a shareholder irrevocable, producing a research note regarding the EU Taxonomy Regulation, drafting a (mock) piece of advice for a client regarding a 2.8 announcement (from the Takeover Code) and what the consequences for this client would be.

In addition, I had a pretty extensive admin task which included updating slides regarding the various takeover transactions that the firm had been involved with over the past decade or so.

From your post it sounds like you have prior legal experience. If you don't mind me asking, what is your background? Are you a career changer or have you just had some prior legal experience?

That all sounds really cool. Thanks for that.

My background is in Kinesiology (graduated from Western last June). Bit of a long story, but essentially in Grade 11 first semester I had an unbelievable Intro to Canadian Law teacher (former lawyer, really smart critical thinker) who really motivated me to consider studying law. But then in second semester of that same year I had an even more incredible biology teacher (brilliant, funny, and just gifted in digesting complex info and communicating it). He got me interested in studying sciences at university, especially b/c I enjoyed them and was good at them at the high school level.

Western Kinesiology is a unique program b/c its the only Kin program in Canada that allows you to pursue either a Bachelor of Arts in Kin, or a Bachelor of Science in Kin. This way if you're unsure whether you want to go full-on with the hard sciences, there's more flexibility to take liberal arts courses (while still taking the required sciencey courses like anatomy/physiology - which I loved). And so I did that, a BA in Kin, after realizing in my first year that I would probably enjoy and better excel in essay/writing liberal arts courses than Chemistry/Biology/Statistics. And so I decided to take both Arts and Sciences courses (best of both worlds) at Western.

So, to answer your question, I guess on paper I'm a career changer, but I've always maintained a longing for law (but still comfortable with sciences). And yes I do have legal experience (also business experience before that, as an admin assistant in a corporate office). I was a Court Reporter for Ontario's Ministry of the AG this past summer. I sat in on criminal law cases to manage the court record of trials/bail hearings/pre-lims, ensuring that participants could hear each other and that the record was in fact recording. Also had to make annotations based on what was being said in court. Really great job as I got exposed to the litigation process - a court-side seat no pun intended . This is a key reason for why I'm keen on exploring dispute resolution... and HSF is that place to do so.

Apologies for the long message, just wanted to give context.

 

[A.Diane01]

Hi @jmosk99,

Welcome to the community!

When I was at HSF, I was given a variety of tasks, from summarising, in my litigation seat, I was asked to summarise, verbally and in writing, an ongoing Supreme Court case at the time to my supervisor (it was slightly terrifying that these summaries were forwarded directly to a Partner!). I had a variety of other tasks in my corporate seat, including completing a first draft of a shareholder irrevocable, producing a research note regarding the EU Taxonomy Regulation, drafting a (mock) piece of advice for a client regarding a 2.8 announcement (from the Takeover Code) and what the consequences for this client would be.

In addition, I had a pretty extensive admin task which included updating slides regarding the various takeover transactions that the firm had been involved with over the past decade or so.

From your post it sounds like you have prior legal experience. If you don't mind me asking, what is your background? Are you a career changer or have you just had some prior legal experience?

Hi both! Just wanted to jump in on this as it’s a super interesting conversation and one which I think will be important for a lot of people doing their first ever VS (like me!)

@George Maxwell - were you expected to know how to do these tasks off the noggin or did you prepare before hand? I ask as a very nervous non law grad who has never seen a research note before!

Cheers

 

[I.Like.UFOs.Not.PFOs]

Hi both! Just wanted to jump in on this as it’s a super interesting conversation and one which I think will be important for a lot of people doing their first ever VS (like me!)

@George Maxwell - were you expected to know how to do these tasks off the noggin or did you prepare before hand? I ask as a very nervous non law grad who has never seen a research note before!

Cheers

Ditto this- I’m so stressed about how to approach these kinds of tasks and what the expectations are of you!

 

[George Maxwell]

That all sounds really cool. Thanks for that.

My background is in Kinesiology (graduated from Western last June). Bit of a long story, but essentially in Grade 11 first semester I had an unbelievable Intro to Canadian Law teacher (former lawyer, really smart critical thinker) who really motivated me to consider studying law. But then in second semester of that same year I had an even more incredible biology teacher (brilliant, funny, and just gifted in digesting complex info and communicating it). He got me interested in studying sciences at university, especially b/c I enjoyed them and was good at them at the high school level.

Western Kinesiology is a unique program b/c its the only Kin program in Canada that allows you to pursue either a Bachelor of Arts in Kin, or a Bachelor of Science in Kin. This way if you're unsure whether you want to go full-on with the hard sciences, there's more flexibility to take liberal arts courses (while still taking the required sciencey courses like anatomy/physiology - which I loved). And so I did that, a BA in Kin, after realizing in my first year that I would probably enjoy and better excel in essay/writing liberal arts courses than Chemistry/Biology/Statistics. And so I decided to take both Arts and Sciences courses (best of both worlds) at Western.

So, to answer your question, I guess on paper I'm a career changer, but I've always maintained a longing for law (but still comfortable with sciences). And yes I do have legal experience (also business experience before that, as an admin assistant in a corporate office). I was a Court Reporter for Ontario's Ministry of the AG this past summer. I sat in on criminal law cases to manage the court record of trials/bail hearings/pre-lims, ensuring that participants could hear each other and that the record was in fact recording. Also had to make annotations based on what was being said in court. Really great job as I got exposed to the litigation process - a court-side seat no pun intended . This is a key reason for why I'm keen on exploring dispute resolution... and HSF is that place to do so.

Apologies for the long message, just wanted to give context.

Hey @jmosk99,

That's awesome! I absolutely loved my time at Western. I was actually speaking about FOCO recently with my group of friends from there!

I had a few friends while I was there who did Kin too- I know that Western is very good for it. I know that it has been tough for Western students during covid as the university has taken a very strict stance (from what I have been told anyway!). I hope that you are enjoying your second(?) year though.

It sounds like you would be a very interesting candidate, not least because you are clearly scientifically-minded (which, from what I understand, is very sought-after, particularly in certain practice areas such as IP!). For what it's worth, one of the best presentations I attended during my vacation scheme was given by a couple of lawyers in HSF's IP practice.

Do let me know if I can be of any more help! 🚀

 

[jmosk99]

Hey @jmosk99,

That's awesome! I absolutely loved my time at Western. I was actually speaking about FOCO recently with my group of friends from there!

I had a few friends while I was there who did Kin too- I know that Western is very good for it. I know that it has been tough for Western students during covid as the university has taken a very strict stance (from what I have been told anyway!). I hope that you are enjoying your second(?) year though.

It sounds like you would be a very interesting candidate, not least because you are clearly scientifically-minded (which, from what I understand, is very sought-after, particularly in certain practice areas such as IP!). For what it's worth, one of the best presentations I attended during my vacation scheme was given by a couple of lawyers in HSF's IP practice.

Do let me know if I can be of any more help! 🚀

No way! Thats awesome. FOCOs always a solid day. Yes COVID was tough last year (during my 4th and final year of undergrad). But first-year law here at Leeds has been a blast.

Re the IP presentation you attended during the HSF Vac Scheme, that's awesome. I attended HSFs "IP, Tech and Cybersecurity Open Day" back in November. Presentations were incredibly engaging. In your presentation, did you learn about the IP team's recent successes in trial?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi both! Just wanted to jump in on this as it’s a super interesting conversation and one which I think will be important for a lot of people doing their first ever VS (like me!)

@George Maxwell - were you expected to know how to do these tasks off the noggin or did you prepare before hand? I ask as a very nervous non law grad who has never seen a research note before!

Cheers

You won’t be expected to know exactly how to do these tasks. But this is where the following becomes important during your scheme:

1) listening to instructions

2) asking questions to clarify your understanding

3) using the firm’s resources to support you - for instance, there will be templates to work from and previous research notes on file that you can use as guidance

4) asking for feedback ahead of deadlines

You won’t be expected to deliver things to high standards completely on your own. But you will be expected to utilise the resources around you (including people) to deliver work to the highest standard you can deliver.

 

[George Maxwell]

Hi both! Just wanted to jump in on this as it’s a super interesting conversation and one which I think will be important for a lot of people doing their first ever VS (like me!)

@George Maxwell - were you expected to know how to do these tasks off the noggin or did you prepare before hand? I ask as a very nervous non law grad who has never seen a research note before!

Cheers

Hey @A.Diane01 and @I.Like.UFOs.Not.PFOs,

Absolutely. I am more than happy to continue this discussion on here. Feel free to ask away!

In my experience, my supervisor/the person giving me the task was always very clear in giving their explanation, what was expected of me and how I should go about it. As a vacation schemer, (some of) the biggest things I considered were:

• attention to detail (e.g., typos in emails!)
• following instructions and asking relevant questions
• completing tasks on time/multi-channel project management
• structure and clarity
• enthusiasm and proactivity

I am happy to develop any of the above if you would like me to to clarify what I mean!

I felt that my supervisors made a conscious effort to support me and guide me where I was unsure. The firm will not expect perfection from you, especially as a non-law vacation schemer.

If it helps to settle some concern, I was never expected to do something that was unreasonable or beyond my level of experience/capability. Push yourself, but remember you really can only try your best. I threw all I feasibly (and sustainably) could into my vacation schemes and tried my best not to stress beyond that.

The following may be useful to consider when you are given a task on a vacation scheme:

• When you are being given instructions verbally, write down as much as you possibly can, either on a piece of paper, or on your laptop. Taking thorough notes is invaluable. It will save you a lot of time (and stress). Ask to repeat your understanding of the task back to ensure that you have fully understood your instructions.
• Make sure that you clarify with the person giving you the task:
  • How urgent it is;
  • When they require it to be finished by (your deadline);
  • How long would they like it to be;
  • Who it is for (is it internal or external);
  • Do they have any preferences regarding the formatting of the piece of work (i.e., should it be done in powerpoint, word, with subheadings) or even if they have a suggested structure that you could use;
  • Whether it is ok for you to come back with further questions if you are unsure of anything (and the best way to reach them).
  • How they would like you to deliver the completed piece of work (i.e., email or verbally).
• Once you have started the task, write down any questions as you go (and ask clarifying questions in a group to avoid unnecessarily bothering your supervisor!).
  • If you are unsure about something:
    • Try to work it out yourself. If you can complete other parts of the task without the information you lack, try to continue this part of the task (as best you can);
    • Ask your trainee buddy or another vacation schemer if they have any advice;
    • Finally, if you really are unsure and you cannot continue, ask the person who gave you the task whether they can guide you. If you are uncertain about anything, I would really advise against trying to complete the task without asking any questions. Failing to seek clarification may result in you wasting both your and the other person's time.

Something which really helped me was that my supervisors always made a conscious effort to tell me why I was being asked to do this and how my work would fit into the wider transaction or task (for example, the shareholder irrevocable task I mentioned above). If you are not told this, it might be worth asking.

I hope that helps! Please feel free to ask any follow-ups 💪

 

[I.Like.UFOs.Not.PFOs]

You won’t be expected to know exactly how to do these tasks. But this is where the following becomes important during your scheme:

1) listening to instructions

2) asking questions to clarify your understanding

3) using the firm’s resources to support you - for instance, there will be templates to work from and previous research notes on file that you can use as guidance

4) asking for feedback ahead of deadlines

You won’t be expected to deliver things to high standards completely on your own. But you will be expected to utilise the resources around you (including people) to deliver work to the highest standard you can deliver.

Hey @A.Diane01 and @I.Like.UFOs.Not.PFOs,

Absolutely. I am more than happy to continue this discussion on here. Feel free to ask away!

In my experience, my supervisor/the person giving me the task was always very clear in giving their explanation, what was expected of me and how I should go about it. As a vacation schemer, (some of) the biggest things I considered were:

• attention to detail (e.g., typos in emails!)
• following instructions and asking relevant questions
• completing tasks on time/multi-channel project management
• structure and clarity
• enthusiasm and proactivity

I am happy to develop any of the above if you would like me to to clarify what I mean!

I felt that my supervisors made a conscious effort to support me and guide me where I was unsure. The firm will not expect perfection from you, especially as a non-law vacation schemer.

If it helps to settle some concern, I was never expected to do something that was unreasonable or beyond my level of experience/capability. Push yourself, but remember you really can only try your best. I threw all I feasibly (and sustainably) could into my vacation schemes and tried my best not to stress beyond that.

The following may be useful to consider when you are given a task on a vacation scheme:

• When you are being given instructions verbally, write down as much as you possibly can, either on a piece of paper, or on your laptop. Taking thorough notes is invaluable. It will save you a lot of time (and stress). Ask to repeat your understanding of the task back to ensure that you have fully understood your instructions.
• Make sure that you clarify with the person giving you the task:
  • How urgent it is;
  • When they require it to be finished by (your deadline);
  • How long would they like it to be;
  • Who it is for (is it internal or external);
  • Do they have any preferences regarding the formatting of the piece of work (i.e., should it be done in powerpoint, word, with subheadings) or even if they have a suggested structure that you could use;
  • Whether it is ok for you to come back with further questions if you are unsure of anything (and the best way to reach them).
  • How they would like you to deliver the completed piece of work (i.e., email or verbally).
• Once you have started the task, write down any questions as you go (and ask clarifying questions in a group to avoid unnecessarily bothering your supervisor!).
  • If you are unsure about something:
    • Try to work it out yourself. If you can complete other parts of the task without the information you lack, try to continue this part of the task (as best you can);
    • Ask your trainee buddy or another vacation schemer if they have any advice;
    • Finally, if you really are unsure and you cannot continue, ask the person who gave you the task whether they can guide you. If you are uncertain about anything, I would really advise against trying to complete the task without asking any questions. Failing to seek clarification may result in you wasting both your and the other person's time.

Something which really helped me was that my supervisors always made a conscious effort to tell me why I was being asked to do this and how my work would fit into the wider transaction or task (for example, the shareholder irrevocable task I mentioned above). If you are not told this, it might be worth asking.

I hope that helps! Please feel free to ask any follow-ups 💪

Thank you both so much! This is extremely helpful 😊

 

[George Maxwell]

Hey all,

The following links from the forum might be useful too! Sorry not to have posted them earlier:

• @Dheepa's reflections on end-of-scheme interviews
• The tasks that Neville faced on his vacation scheme at A&O (the whole thread is worth a read!)
• Our dedicated 2020 thread full of tips on converting vacation schemes to a TC
• @Daniel Boden's tips for preparing before your vacation scheme!
• Tips for virtual vacation schemes (if applicable)

Please do reach out by tagging me if you have any further questions!