TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Brandon93]

It’s basically a why commercial law question but focused a little more on your journey to this point rather than what you are looking forward to experiencing within the career.

Thank you, helpful as always Jessica.

 

[C_AJH]

Hi everyone,
In my work experience section, I tend to write in bullet points rather than prose [unless instructed to do otherwise]. I am able to more concisely detail achievements and responsibilities, and also write about how those developed certain skills. I tend to reach the maximum word count on my main experiences [previous vac schemes etc]. Writing in prose means I get much less in and it tends to become less detailed, but it seems like many do it that way.

Is this a poor approach that is holding me back? I have only submitted about half of those vs apps I intend to before mid January so I am unsure whether to alter this approach.

 

[Unknowncabbage]

Describe a specific instance where you have utilised artificial intelligence (AI) or other technologies in your work or studies. How have these tools enhanced your personal development?

Any tips for this CMS VS question? I'm struggling quite a bit 🫤

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi all

With many firms issuing psychometric tests to be completed after submitting an online application, does anyone know of any good websites/providers where we could practice these tests to get somewhat better (if that is at all possible)? I understand that there are often no right/wrong answers to these tests as these might depend on what the firm is looking for, but are there any places we could go to practice these?

Thanks.

Hi @theonecompetant I will list bellow some of the psychometric test resources I have found.

For free WG practice tests, see:

• Clifford Chance Free Practice Test
• The Lawyer Portal Free Practice Test
• Pearson Free Practice Test
• Practice Aptitude Tests Free Practice Test
• Assessment Day Free Practice Test

For free SJT practice tests, see:

• A list with multiple links to free SJT tests
• Lawtests free SJT test
• Assessment Day free SJT test
• A useful Lawyer Poral article breaking down SJTs

For WG/SJT/other tests resources available on a subscription/fee basis, look at:

• TCLA's excellent course on the WG test
• Practice Aptitude Tests full subscription packages

 

[A worried graduate]

Besides the proof of module results which I have seen in one or two other application forms, I have not seen other firms ask for these documents at this stage either. However, I do not expect the fact that you do not have an official university transcript to be a big issue. Recruiters are aware that some universities only make transcripts available upon graduation and sometimes charge fees for earlier issues.

In my case, although firms preferred receiving transcripts, they were happy to accept other official documents evidencing my grades. These were either module results notification emails or screenshots of my modules results breakdown on my university's student portal webpage. I think it is likely Dentons would accept the same type of evidence in your case, but if you are worried about this it cannot hurt to send the graduate recruitment team an email explaining your situation and asking for clarification.

I have graduated but still never had such a document.

 

[Andrei Radu]

I have graduated but still never had such a document.

I see - consider contacting someone from your university about this and ask what types of documents do they offer as proof of module results.

 

[A worried graduate]

I see - consider contacting someone from your university about this and ask what types of documents do they offer as proof of module results.

That is what I have done.

Thanks for your answer about Taylor Wessing as I can make an attempt at that today.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Describe a specific instance where you have utilised artificial intelligence (AI) or other technologies in your work or studies. How have these tools enhanced your personal development?

Any tips for this CMS VS question? I'm struggling quite a bit 🫤

Hi @Unknowncabbage I and a some other forum members have considered different a few different approaches to this question before. Long story short, I do not think you need to worry too much about it and I believe you should just focus on thoroughly analyzing the impact of the times you have actually used this technology - even if it was just for reviewing purposes. I will quote some of potentially useful posts discussing this in more depth bellow, but do let me know if you have any follow up questions:

Since you haven't used AI for anything substantial, it will be difficult to get to a conclusion that it improved your personal development directly. However, if you are willing to be a bit flexible with your writing, I think you can tie your use of Grammarly to some indirect resulting personal developments. Off the top of my head, I can think of:

1. By using it, you have saved significant amounts of time you would have normally spent reviewing and rephrasing your writing. This enabled you to invest more time and effort into improving your understanding of the subject matter of your coursework and into improving your understanding of the law firms you were applying to. The, you could give concrete examples of this and/or explain the outcomes: did your academic/professional interests change in any way? did you obtain better results - more success in application or better grades?
2. By using it to assess your manner of writing, you have been able to notice patterns in the errors you make when writing. This has allowed you to enhance your attention to detail and also improve your understanding of your strengths and weaknesses in your ability to articulate your thoughts. Then, you can explain how this progressively led to you improving your capacity to use language precisely. This arguably does not only also betters your capacity to express yourself both verbally and in writing, it also improves your ability to minimize ambiguity in thought itself (as the very act of reasoning involved representing concepts in language). Granted, this point might be a bit of a stretch, but I don't think it's impossible to make it fit for an application form answer if you can illustrate it by using some practical examples.

The other point I wanted to mention is that the application question says 'AI or other technologies'. As such, maybe you can think of some other new technology besides AI that you have used recently - perhaps some smarter search engine when looking for further resources in your research for the coursework?

I think looking at the wording of the question is really important here. It’s not limited to just artificial intelligence—it also says or other technologies. So, think about any tech tools you’ve used, even if they’re not advanced AI systems.

For example, have you ever used Grammarly for spell-checking and improving your writing? Or maybe Excel for managing data? Even tools like Google Calendar, Zoom, or note-taking apps like Notion count! It’s less about using the most sophisticated tech and more about highlighting how these tools helped enhance your personal development or productivity.

I'll also add that although the term 'technologies' is ambiguous, because of its association with "AI", I would assume it does not refer to everything and anything digital. Rather, I think it's likely it is referring to some of the newer developed technologies - I would not go further back than 4-5 years. As such, online courses might not qualify.

However, I don't think you should worry too much about this question if you already have two examples. Many other candidates only write about using Grammarly as a review tool, so you should definitely be fine.

 

[Unknowncabbage]

Hi @Unknowncabbage I and a some other forum members have considered different a few different approaches to this question before. Long story short, I do not think you need to worry too much about it and I believe you should just focus on thoroughly analyzing the impact of the times you have actually used this technology - even if it was just for reviewing purposes. I will quote some of potentially useful posts discussing this in more depth bellow, but do let me know if you have any follow up questions:

Thank you Andrei, that is really helpful. I may just talk about the use of Excel now!

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi everyone,
In my work experience section, I tend to write in bullet points rather than prose [unless instructed to do otherwise]. I am able to more concisely detail achievements and responsibilities, and also write about how those developed certain skills. I tend to reach the maximum word count on my main experiences [previous vac schemes etc]. Writing in prose means I get much less in and it tends to become less detailed, but it seems like many do it that way.

Is this a poor approach that is holding me back? I have only submitted about half of those vs apps I intend to before mid January so I am unsure whether to alter this approach.

Hi @C_AJH while I sympathize with your situation and agree with your thoughts as to how bullet points are more efficient, unfortunately the default expectation of recruiters is that you will write in prose. I have hear different justifications for this from different recruiters, but most often that making you write in prose is a better test of your drafting skills. As such, my advice is that all other things being equal, and more specifically if there is no indication that the firm is happy with bullet points, you should write in prose.

Now, as for the question whether this is holding you back and if so by how much, there is no simple answer. In part, that is because it depends on how much individual recruiters or recruitment teams care about this criterion relative to the many other criteria your application is assessed on. However, my expectation would be that if everything else about your application and candidate profile is exceptional, it is unlikely you will be rejected just because you used bullet points. In my case, similarly to you, in the first half of my application cycle I tended to write work experience sections using bullet points. Nonetheless, I ended up progressing in a number of them. As such, I do not think you have significantly reduced your success chances because of this approach.

That said, applications are now more competitive than ever. For TCs at MC and top US firms, I keep hearing rates of offer rates ranging between 1/100 and 1/200. In this context, you want to do your absolute best not to give recruiters any reason to reject you - as you can bet that they will be actively looking for that. Thus, my advice is to invest a few days in drafting really concise and clear work experience sections in prose and to use those from now on.

 

[Andrei Radu]

For firms that have an international 'best friends network' - what are the advantages of this approach when it comes to the trainee experience?

Hey @lawyersum I will firstly just caveat the following by mentioning that the subject of the merits of this international strategy is a controversial one. I have analyzed this topic from the perspective of a firm operating this model in a lot of detail when writing TCLA's updated Slaughter and May profile, which you can access here. To give you the headline benefits I identified:

1. Potentially less exposure to run of the mill international work, but more exposure to the most complex cross border mandates in the market: the main rationale for this system is that it is practically impossible to try to obtain top of the market capabilities in every jurisdiction involved in cross-border matters. Some firms are more successful than others, but none operates leading full-service teams everywhere. This would not make sense from a business perspective, as setting up shop in another jurisdiction is very expensive and there are huge discrepancies between the levels of profitability of different legal markets. However, some firms simply did not want to accept the idea that they would have to rely on substandard teams in foreign offices, as this would lead to a delivery of substandard client service. As such, they followed a strategy which involved the creation of a system of network and 'best friends' firms, which are the best independent firms in each major jurisdiction. The idea is these firms will have (i) the flexibility of picking and choosing the firms they work with in every jurisdiction - so if different firms have leading teams in different practice areas, they can choose the one with the most relevant expertise; (ii) can always promise clients the best of the best of legal service across the board; and (iii) can get referral work from the other firms in the network. The significant downside of this model is that it is more administratively burdensome and does not offer the same simplified and quick service as that of a firm with an expanded network of its own offices. Arguably, in terms of pitching for mandates, this means that a firm operating a 'best friends' model will be disadvantaged when trying to win roles on simpler cross-border mandates. At the same time however, best friends firms should have an advantage when pitching for the most complex mandates, as those are the ones for which top quality of legal service everywhere is most pertinent. If you are interested in this type of cross-border work the most, that could be a benefit.
2. Secondment opportunities at the offices of the leading independent US and EU firms: at Slaughter and May, trainees have historically gone on secondments at firms like Cravath (in New York), Hengeler Muller (in Germany), Uria Menedez (in Spain and Portugal), BonelliErede (in Italy), Bredin Prat (in France), and De Brauw Blackstone Westbroek (in Holland). Arguably, experiencing a secondment in the oldest and most established firms in another country is a more interesting and useful professional experience than going on a secondment in the same firm's foreign office.

 

[stargazed]

Any advice on approaching this question? I'm not sure what the best way to structure my answer would be.

Describe the personal life experiences that have given you the unique perspective you would bring as an insight scheme participant at Fieldfisher, and how this perspective will support your success. (800 characters)

 

[studentdelaw786]

Hi guys,

After seeing that a lot of US firms prefer students/graduates from Russell Group universities, i’ve been considering taking an LLM course at a Russell Group uni.

I was wondering if this could make a difference to my employability? For context, I have AAB equivalent at A-Level and a high 2:1 at a non-RG uni.

Thanks

 

[theonecompetant]

Hi @theonecompetant I will list bellow some of the psychometric test resources I have found.

For free WG practice tests, see:

• Clifford Chance Free Practice Test
• The Lawyer Portal Free Practice Test
• Pearson Free Practice Test
• Practice Aptitude Tests Free Practice Test
• Assessment Day Free Practice Test

For free SJT practice tests, see:

• A list with multiple links to free SJT tests
• Lawtests free SJT test
• Assessment Day free SJT test
• A useful Lawyer Poral article breaking down SJTs

For WG/SJT/other tests resources available on a subscription/fee basis, look at:

• TCLA's excellent course on the WG test
• Practice Aptitude Tests full subscription packages

Legend. Thanks, Andrei!

 

[CHLTC]

Hello All.

Question about Simmons & Simmons' application.

I see on their online application form, it says "no more than 150 words" for the top 4 work experiences, yet, it seems to let me put in over 150 words. It does not block/prevent me from adding more. Do they just stop reading after 150 words? What if I put 151 words for example?

Secondly, their 'other relevant work experience' box. Other firms have had a limit, e.g. Baker McKenzie have a 500 word limit. Again, with Simmons, it seems as though you can type as much as you want. Any ideas? Do we assume it is 500 words? Or can we do longer in this 'other work' section?

@Jessica Booker
@Jaysen

 

[Jessica Booker]

I was about to look at applying for Dentons and then I saw


Before you start your application:

Please make sure that you have the following documents ready to upload. Please upload the below as an official copy in pdf format in the additional documents section of the application form.

- A copy of your current right to work, if you have this

- Official copy of your A Levels or equivalent post-16 education, including a breakdown of your grades per subject

- Official copy of your undergraduate results up to date or official completion certificate with a breakdown of your grades per subject

We strongly encourage candidates to visit our website dentons.challengers.com and FAQs ahead of making this application.

If you have any questions regarding this role, please contact [email protected]


I have never seen something like this and I don't have actual proof of the module results.

I also want to know if this is a new thing or was I rejected last year as I don't recall doing this then.

Education fraud is scarily prevalent and getting references from academic institutions is notoriously difficult and slow, so I understand why they are asking for this upfront.

If you have any documents, including emails from the university that confirm your module grades, you can upload these in the first instance. If you cannot, ask for a copy from your university's faculty office.

 

[A worried graduate]

Education fraud is scarily prevalent and getting references from academic institutions is notoriously difficult and slow, so I understand why they are asking for this upfront.

If you have any documents, including emails from the university that confirm your module grades, you can upload these in the first instance. If you cannot, ask for a copy from your university's faculty office.

I have one but only for the first two years so I have emailed to ask for another copy

 

[A worried graduate]

Apologies for the questions but does anyone here know how to change the work experience section of a vantage profile as it has it in the wrong order as I thought it was oldest first before?

 

[Wmana10]

Last year I applied to CRS vacation scheme and got past the application stage but failed at interview stage. Would I be able to use my last application for this new application cyc,le or would they disregard it?

 

[Pola123]

CMS VI was something lmaoo